Firestone tried (did) rip me off.. what can i do?

what car is it? what happened when it broke down?
timing belts breaking are usually the fault of the owner and your lucky if it is just a bent valve.
also, dont go to a maindealer, everything will be expensive.

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by bjax9er
you dont need a new engine. take the head off of the top of the engine. take it to a machine shop, and have them rework the head with new valves.

or go to the junkyard and buy a used head assembled. buy a $30 head gasket and bolt it on. probably get it done for less than $200 at the junkyard.

and get a job

What he ^ said. And if your "Friend" mechanic is any good he should have TOLD you the same!!

The car is just not worth it. I only need it so I can drive to a job a to buy a new one.
Guess im just going to have to find a crummy job and take the buss for now. Oh well every thing happens for a reason.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Infi8nity
READ IT AGAIN My mechanic did not say their was no way for firestone to know if the values wear bent he said their was no way could NOT know they wear bent.
They wear trying to get me to buy parts and pay for the labor before it was done because they said their was a chance the car was not going to run, because the values MIGHT be bent. WTF? THEY COULD SEE THE BENT VALUES. They told me they would not be able to tell if the values wear bent until I got a new belt. How was my mechanic able to tell me that my values wear bent BEFORE I GOT A BELT????

Tell you what, sunshine. Thanks for including the address of the Firestone Store. I'll be calling the manager, a guy named Jason Hastings, and I'll be informing him of your little shenaigans here, then will let him in on your little secret plan here. Firestone did nothing wrong here. They informed you of the situation BEFORE you spent the additional money. Your backyard mechanic is just that--a backyard mechanic. There is NO WAY they could tell a valve was bent by sticking computer diagnostioc on your car. It's a mechanical problem that does not "throw a code" to the computer. And that's EXACTLY what they told you--they couldn't tell, upfront, before you spent the additional money. You have not been harmed, and you have no case.

That was right honorable of them. You want to get bent out of shape over it, be my guest. Pardon me why I make that call.

edit on 1/11/2013 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

YOUR RIGHT Their was no way they could if the values wear bent by hooking it up to a machine BUT they could have opened the gasket to see if the values wear bent BEFORE they bought the parts, witch they told me THEY COULD NOT DO! Its plain to see they wear trying to rip me off, I know they opened the gasket because I SAW them open the gasket.
You do not know who my mechanic is.... hes a very good friend of mine. He has worked on F1 cars, he knows what hes talking about. He just doing this for some side cash. Go ahead and tell them I ALL READY DID... So what? You think protesting is illegal? Your hilarious...

Your really trying to support this supper corporation known for ripping people on ATS, of all sites.
In the end it really was my fault because I took it to this massive corporation where no one is held accountable. Their is no licensing regulations for mechanics so they can do what they please. People get into tight spots and are left with no choice, taking your car their is a trap. I should have taken it straight to my friend.

Firestone did not rip you off. You asked for a diagnostic. They did the diagnostic. Diagnostics from a computer cannot show whether a valve is bent. They knew this. They told you this, thus preventing you from spending $400 you did not have to. Good for them. They did the right thing. You paid for the diagnostic, and that is all you paid. How fortunate for you. Did you spend additional money for them to take apart your engine and confirm a bent valve? Nope. You just walked away.

Now, your backyard mechanic says there is no way they did not know a valve was bent. This simply is not true. In fact, Firestone said it MIGHT be true, but there was no way THE DIAGNOSTIC could tell that because the Diagnostic computer is simply that, one that analyzes codes thrown out by your engine computers, which have no "code" for a bent valve. In other words, they were relying on their diagnostic computer, but they were still smart enough to inform you there might be a bent valve.

Now, your backyard mechanic is just that--a backyard mechanic. Does he have a business license? Maybe. Does he have a diagnostic computer? Likely not as they cost thousands of dollars. So he can't rely on one. Instead, he uses his ears and his experience and guess what? He comes to the same conclusion as Firestone except he is more sure of himself.

Now, let's just say your backyard mechanic takes apart the engine and finds this bent valve. Voila! Both your backyard mechanic and Firestone were correct! But does this mean you DO NOT NEED a timing belt? Hmm, what caused that valve to get bent in the first place? Maybe the timing belt had something to do with it. Ya think? So maybe Firestone was right after all. You DO need a timing belt. It's just that the damage was already caused. You didn't get to it in time.

Now I'm just going to hazard a guess here that your owner's manual states that you need to change the timing belt at X-thousand miles. On my car, it is at 105,000 miles. Yours may vary. So I changed mine. The mechanic said it looked brand new, but we changed it anyway because, you know, if a timing belt breaks you're liklely to bend a few valves and such! That's why you change them "whether you need to or not" because you really can't measure the stress one has been through. It might last. It might not, but a new one is statistically likely to last it's allotted time of 105,000 miles.

But I'm guessing you decided your car didn't need no steenking timing belt because it ran perfectly, so you skipped over changing it or you "didn't know" it needed changing, or the car is so old it doesn't even have an owner's manual, much less regularly scheduled maintenance. I can see it. Guy with no job and no money is not likely to be changing his oil every 7500 miles like the book says, or every 3500 miles like Jiffy Lube would like you to do. It's not exactly a high priority.

So the reason the POS broke in the first place is probably your own fault. It surely isn't Firestone's. And maybe that would be a great question for Firestone's attorney to ask you. "Mr. Infinity, when was the last time you changed the oil in your vehicle?" That might be fun to watch.

Now when I got off the phone with the manager a few minutes ago, he said he'd never heard of you or from you, but he's also new and on the job only the last three weeks or so, or perhaps you talked with someone else. In any case I had a great conversation with him and alerted him to some of these tactics for revenge you and your buddies here have been bantering about--not that I think you'd actually commit those crimes, no matter how creative they may be. I figure it's just letting off some steam; no harm, no foul.

The bottom line is still that you don't have a case.

No, you generally can't just look down and say oh wow look at this bent valve. If its visible without a super detailed inspection. You probably wouldn't have a functioning engine anymore. Most of the time you're going to see a bent valve because of metal shavings, scuffing of the walls, wear products, etc. like everyone said, Firestone did everything right. If you want a free diagnostic go to auto zone and look up the code.

As for the dude who found the parts at napa. If you take parts in from an outside source a shop will install them. The only difference is they won't warranty those parts that they did no choose and certify.

Originally posted by truttseeker
No, you generally can't just look down and say oh wow look at this bent valve. If its visible without a super detailed inspection. You probably wouldn't have a functioning engine anymore. Most of the time you're going to see a bent valve because of metal shavings, scuffing of the walls, wear products, etc. like everyone said, Firestone did everything right. If you want a free diagnostic go to auto zone and look up the code.

As for the dude who found the parts at napa. If you take parts in from an outside source a shop will install them. The only difference is they won't warranty those parts that they did no choose and certify.

Edit: if you want to not get ripped off for tires buy a jack and a crossbar and replace them yourself. Way cheaper

reply to post by Infi8nity


Hello,

My name is Tom and I work with the Firestone Corporate Office. I stumbled upon your review and wanted to apologize for the lack of service you received. If the diagnostic did not correctly identify the issue I agree a refund is due. If you would like to message us at [email protected] I would like to see if we can make this situation right.

Thanks,

Tom

Originally posted by bjax9er


and get a job

RUDE much!!!

People like you piss me off. How can you tell someone to get a job when you have no idea their situation. In some areas finding a job isn't exactly easy and don't say "oh just move." Are you gonna pay for their moving and relocating expenses? Doubtful.

The OP is obviously upset and feels like they were ripped off and you go and insult them. Get a life.

Originally posted by truttseeker

Originally posted by truttseeker
No, you generally can't just look down and say oh wow look at this bent valve. If its visible without a super detailed inspection. You probably wouldn't have a functioning engine anymore. Most of the time you're going to see a bent valve because of metal shavings, scuffing of the walls, wear products, etc. like everyone said, Firestone did everything right. If you want a free diagnostic go to auto zone and look up the code.

As for the dude who found the parts at napa. If you take parts in from an outside source a shop will install them. The only difference is they won't warranty those parts that they did no choose and certify.

Edit: if you want to not get ripped off for tires buy a jack and a crossbar and replace them yourself. Way cheaper

Putting and taking a rim off a tier is hard. Any suggestions?

I didn't read the whole thread, but if you paid with a credit card, and have a consumer protection plan, you can possibly call the card company and refuse the charge, then let the Firestone store come for the money. Legally though, you don't have much for grounds...only that you weren't happy with their diagnostic.

I don't feel you got ripped off.

You took the car in and they did a diagnostic on the engine and obviously found evidence that led them to tell you your timing belt either broke or slipped and put the engine out of time.

When that happens on an interference engine there can and usually is damage to the valves and pistons.

The clearances are so close inside the engine that once the valves are opening at the wrong time (due to a bad timing belt or chain) the piston hits the valves when it reaches top dead center.

They told you the belt was the issue (which is what you paid the $80 for) and that there may possibly be internal damage but there is really no way to tell the extent till you pull the heads off and inspect it.

I see no negligence on their part.

It sucks that it happened to your car but it's not their fault. They did what they were paid to do and gave you the results of their findings.

I see this a lot. Not all engines are interference engines. There are books that identify interference engines but are not accurate 50% of the time. If you can post exactly what model/year/engine it is i can probably tell you if it bent the valves. Even if it is an interference engine it is possible that it did not bend the valves. There are many factors involved. If it is an interference engine that requires regular valve adjustment and you have never had that done it will not likely bend the valves due to excessive valve to rocker clearance. I can also tell you the exact price that is fair for the job.

$80 for a complex diagnosis isn't bad. Frankly, Firestone Service is pretty good. In a pinch, suspension, wheel hubs, brakes....chassis work, I trust them. Diag fee is nbd. They have a store and staff to support. They welcomed you in to do business, and you requested a diagnosis, that takes time and time is money.

i dont think you got ripped in the classic sense.
if you asked for a 'diagnostic' then all they prob did was hook it up to the computer. car dont even need to be running or cranking over for that.
they gave you what you asked for if you were that specific.

for the record they can not 'open the gasket' but i know what youre talking about.

if you jumped time there is a real good chance you bent a valve but it can be fixed. some top end work.

to be fair to you i dont agree with people saying buy a manual and do it yourself.

not everyone can jump into a job like that.

if you dont have any kind of mechanical background and the tools to do it, super good chance a timing belt is gonna be over your head. then a valve job too?
i think people forget about stuff like that especially if they have been wrenching on cars. before i got hurt i would never dream of taking my car to the shop. but, ive worked on cars my entire life.

not all timing belts/chains are created the same. you very well may be able to do it on certain cars but not on others.

for the people saying get a book and do it.
i assume you have some mechanics in your background? lets be honest.
if this dude is rolling around some early 00's chrysler 3.5 of some duel overhead cam motor its just not gonna happpen.