Have they all been brainwashed?

This is the only possible explanation I can come up with for the fanatical worship of Bush, you hear them chanting 4 more years, they sometimes have glazed look in their eyes, a few I've seen with their hands clasped in front of them as though their praying to him. And I can't help but wonder have they been brainwashed? And if so why is it not working on all of us? What means are they using, is it the tv, what? This has to be due to more than , politics pushing them to support this man, they, some of them practically worship him. So again my question if the gov or someone within the gov was going to brainwash a large group of people, what would be the best method be and why does it not work on all the public? What do you think and please keep politics out of this?

I understand where you are coming from but Bush is not the only man who gets this worship treatment....i can easily picture women with their hands clasped jumping up and down to meeting celebrities and musicians such as tom cruise or justin timberlake.

Am am not discrediting you of the possibility you raise about brainwashing because I agree that there are many many people who seem to simply worship bush- all he has to say I God bless America and the bigots and ignorant will flock to him.

It isn't brainwashing...it's fear mongering. People believe that the reason we haven't had another terrorist attack is that Bush is in office. This is a falsehood of the highest order. It is because of the sacrifice of some rights, and a more serious attitude by those charged to counter it, post 911, that is responsible for it.

Still, many see him as the great protector, because by and large, people are sheep looking for a shepherd. It is part of many's basic nature, not the result of mass brainwashing.

To answer your question though...tampering with the water supply would of course be the best way to do this... Some would be immune simply because of statistical anomolies... There will always be a small population immune or resistant to anything...

I disagree Gaz. I can't speak for everyone, and I haven't been to a rally. But I think its a lt more complicated than that. I think a lot of conservatives are happy that the president doesn't mince words, and says whats on his mind. I think that a lot of us like the idea of an America that bites back when bitten. I think a lot of us are tired of seeing america go into places like kosovo and watching our soldiers killed, and wondering why the rules of war only seem to apply to us. A lot of us are sick of the US giving out more aid than anyone else and still being labeled as evil. We are sick of treaties like kyoto where we are held to a different standard. We are sick of the UN, sick of europe, sick of the hypocrisy. I support bush because at least when he says "mess with us and we will hunt you down" he means it. After clinton I just want a president who acts like american interest comes first, even if it is not in the worlds interest.

Right, so as long as America is happy and content everyone else can go to hell for all you care wow what a patriot- get a conscience mate and why dont you try looking at the bigger picture for once.

Right, so as long as America is happy and content everyone else can go to hell for all you care

Perhaps so...personally, I like to give people more credit, including my fellow Americans. I grew up as more of a "citizen of the world", so although I love my country, I am also concerned with our face to the world. Right now, I'm not very happy with it, and so I'm voting against it.

I support bush because at least when he says "mess with us and we will hunt you down" he means it.

Odd then, that he plays so much footsie with the very country from which the majority of the 911 hijackers (and the majority of terrorist funding) comes from, isn't it? I guess he means it, but only if he isn't doing business with them...then it's HIS interests first, not the nation's...

Originally posted by JoeyC
Right, so as long as America is happy and content everyone else can go to hell for all you care wow what a patriot- get a conscience mate and why dont you try looking at the bigger picture for once.

No joeyC but if the president of the US has two options one which is good for the US but bad for the world and one which is good for the world but bad for the US he better choose the first.
I dont mind helping out the less fortunate and makng the world as a whole a better place unless doing so conflicts with whats best for the US.

Gaz I do understand your point in reference to saudi arabia but all things considered its not that its in Bush's best interests to deal with them but the US's interests as a whole. The simple fact is the US does need foreign oil and saudi arabia has the most and (well its government seems to be publicly at least) its the closest we got to an ally in that region.

You havent changed your views with that statement at all you just phrased yourself differently. Why should Americans benefit before anyone else? Am i to understand that if you had the chance to help people all over the world you wouldnt take it if America was slightly inconvenienced? America is not isolated it affects the rest of the world- you seem to not be bothered by it sapping the life of the planet if it comes off its better for you personally.

Do you know what empathy is?

It means putting yourself in other people shoes...lets try an analogy:

You are the head off a civilised country on Earth and obviously with your position comes great power and wealth you could double tax for your people at your will- resulting in a greater income for you and more money to spend on what you like even though by doing this you have taken a high proportion of money from your people making them significantly poorer- some even die because they simply cannot afford to live

I get the impression you would do this- after all its better for you isnt it? that was your argument right?

Its all good for the king but many many people have been made miserable....how would you feel if you were one of your own people?

With power and wealth comes great responsibility America is the most powerful country at the moment in my opinion concerning the way it affects lots of smaller countries and i beilieve it is responsible for them too as you are.

i hope i have opened your eyes a bit, respect to you

You havent changed your views with that statement at all you just phrased yourself differently. Why should Americans benefit before anyone else?

For the same reason Chirac shold do what best for france and schroeder should do whats best for germany. What you don't seem to get JoeyC is that Bush is not the president of the world he is the president of the USA. His job is not to do whats best for everyone his job is to do whats best for Americans.

Am i to understand that if you had the chance to help people all over the world you wouldnt take it if America was slightly inconvenienced?

Yes JoeyC thats exactly what you are to understand. As President his job is to put America first It is neither my, nor the presidents, responsibility to worry about France Germany or the UK, thats the job of the elected leaders of France Germany and the UK.
I have empathy but not at the cost of myself and my family. If I have to go without to give you more you aint getting it. If I have to choose between feeding my family and yours I am gonna choose mine. If I have to choose between protecting the US and and protecting another country I am gonna Protect the US.

Hate to tell you (because I like America and Americans) but you are not the biggest aid contributor in the world. There was a report released last year that said in the list of top aid contributors, the USA barely made it into the top five or ten? Its been that way most of the decade and getting worse.

It might be a big $$ figure, but per head of population Americas got one of the lowest contribution factors compared to many western countries, and nearly two thirds of that aid is military, where as most others is humanitarian and economic. I think the top was Sweden.

These figures were published here last year and gathered by a reputable international group. I cant recall who but it would surely be on the web.

I dont know if it widely reported in the papers there, but most of your reconstruction work is being paid for, and the US Administration plan calls for much of that money to be recouped from Iraqi oil funds to pay for the repairs when they almost got bombed back to the stone age by the US Coalition. All to get rid of Saddam, thier previously USA backed dictator and oppressor.

B4 you jump down my throat......I support the Coalition in Iraq and the WoT. If I am prepared to be that open minded about it, what about people who have thier doubts.

[edit on 28-10-2004 by craigandrew]

Craigandrew I agree that as a percentage of GDP we rank pretty low, however in gross dollars we are the biggest aid contributor in the world.
Putit this way if a country with a 1 billion dollar GDP puts 50% into aid and a country with a 100billion dollar gdp puts 1% into aid who is giving more?
By percentage the first, however even though they are giving more of what they have the second is giving more overall.
The US doesn't have to give as big of a percentage. The smaller percentage we give still accomplishes more than the bigger percentages other countries do.
Of course we are going to bill Iraq for reconstruction. So what?

If we the democrats had defended Clinton the way the republicans defend Bush, we would have denied there was such a person as Monica Lewinski, she did not work in the white house, yes of course there is a person of that name but the media is confused and run by conservatives who set out to attack the president always, there is a Monica Lewinski but she lives in A white House in Montana, the house is white. She doesn't even know the president. The Blue dress is a myth, this girl only wears pink and has not owned or worn a blue dress since she was christened in one, are you people crazy, whats wrong with you, you just want to believe and spread bad stuff about our poor President, he is such a good man he goes to church you know and prays too. There was nothing on the blue dress because she lives in Montana and does not own a blue dress, that is Hilary's dress someone stole it, its the conservative hateful media again attacking a good man, did I mention he believes in God.

Here is the repulbicans defending Bush, Yes he originally did say WMD's was the reason we went to war but that was only due to bad intelligence that the poor man believed. I don't care that evidence has come out that he was told by many who should know there were no WMD's and he totally ignored it and did not tell the American people, he did not lie. What is wrong with you people you just want to believe the bad stuff. Our president is a religious man and loves God! Yes he did say that he was a uniter not a divider, so what if you idiot democrats would just listen and follow him like we do we would all be united its not his fault you all can't get with the plan. He did not say anything like he did not care if we caught Osama Bin Laden, thats one of them exagerations. Yes the President has made some mistakes but they were all everyone else's fault, mostly democrats. Yes jobs are not being created but you should believe the president when he says the economy is getting better, its not his fault that there are no jobs. So what if more people are living in poverty and not able to get medical care, you can't blame our president for everything, he has a lot on his mind, look you got to know the man is working hard, he has to take a lot of vacations just to rest up from all the hard work he is doing and did I mentiion he is a religious and talks to God but unlike your man Clinton who also talked to God, President Bush talks to God and God talks back.

From the op of this thread and this post, I talk to God too and I sometimes even chant, Four more Days, Four more Days good God almighty please let the people vote this idiot out of office in Four More Days!

[edit on 28-10-2004 by goose]

Excellent post Goose! I agree with you 100%...

You got a "way above" vote from me

I've given up on trying to understand the Bush supporters, I've come to the conclusion that they are delusional and there's no reasoning with most.
I also find it disturbing that this election is so close...do people even watch the news? Do they realize the mess that we are in? Do they even care?

I have yet to hear an intelligent response on why that schmuck should be in the white house another 4 years...

If Bush wins the election, America deserves whatever it gets...

Thanks Lecky it makes me wonder too when I hear the polls and see that there are many who still support him. I have to wonder how real those polls are.

Hi, a bigot,ignorant bush supporter here, The reason i support bush is because i feel he is and will be a better president than kerry. Have i been brain washed? Yes, from birth with republican propaganda. Stronge military,low taxes, and only you can make your life better.

[edit on 28-10-2004 by one eyed tom]

Have i been brain washed?

Yep- lord knows anyone who has the audacity to have a different opinion than those on the left, in a debate forum no less, are obviously misguided and delusional individuals.

[edit on 28-10-2004 by Ruins]

* ignorance
* misplaced loyalty
* lack of independent thought (no ability to critique propaganda)
* apathy
* habit
* cognitive dissonance

and sometimes

* knowing mendacity.

Originally posted by goose
This is the only possible explanation I can come up with for the fanatical worship of Bush, you hear them chanting 4 more years, they sometimes have glazed look in their eyes, a few I've seen with their hands clasped in
(snip)

You would probably enjoy studying the variety of
thought reform programs presently operating in the US.
The subject takes you into psychology, theology,
sociology, advertising, marketing, propaganda, politics,
social control methodology, conventional and operant
conditioning, cult research, and so on.

"Brain washing" is very subtle these days, but you can
bet your last convincing thought that you are being
targeted daily. Everyone greatly underestimates just how
sophisticated the programs are being used to persuade
people (sheeple) to flock where authority desires.

Below is an example of the kind of information available
to answer the questions you ask.

Thought Reform Programs and the Production of
Psychiatric Casualties by Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph. D.,
and Richard Ofshe, Ph. D. Psychiatric Annals 20:4 April,
1990

"The tactics of a thought reform program are organized
lo destabilize individuals' sense of self by getting them to
drastically reinterpret their life's history, radically alter
their world view, accept a new version of reality and
causality, and develop dependency on the organization,
thereby being turned into a deployable agent of the
organization operating the thought reform program."

"Not everyone who is exposed to a thought reform
system is successfully manipulated nor does everyone
respond with major reactive symptoms."

"Subjects of modern thought reform programs are
usually unaware they are being manipulated."

* ignorance
* misplaced loyalty
* lack of independent thought (no ability to critique propaganda)
* apathy
* habit
* cognitive dissonance

and sometimes

* knowing mendacity.

agreed


first they dont know the are being manipulated into unwavering compliance, or they subtly realize it but are not smart enough to figure who or what is behind the programing, i was part of the latter before venturing onto this board.

people who get their info from mainstream media are subject to all of the kinds of thought programing mockan speaks of, highly vunerable imo.

it also apears to be working flawlessly. drove to the mall this last saturday, when i came to the main intersection there were about 100 people with signs all cheering for BUSH/CHENEY, and sure enough the stoplight going masses beeped and honked like theres no tommarow, i then felt disgusted...

[edit on 28-10-2004 by sturod84]

True about the most dollars, but it does bother me that the nation that says we give the most, are actually the nation that heads for dollars, has the shallowest pockets.

As to so what for Iraq footing the reconstruction bill for the reconstruction the coalition brought about and insisted most be fixed...well theres this.

In 1919 The "winners" of WW1 imposed such crippling economic conditions upon the "losers" Germany and Austria that it bred the resentment that gave rise to Hitler and the Nazis. The Europeans went against the recommendations of a US President Woodrow Wilson, who couldn't even get the backing of his own Congress and Media to give him the necessary leverage to make his case.

There were others who shared his concern of the inevitability of another war based on that template. They were right.

In 1945 when Europe was in ruins, its industries and economies exhausted and its peoples displaced and shell shocked, the United States stepped up to the plate and bankrolled the reconstruction that saved Western Europe and created the wall that was NATO. Whatever else the USA says about it today in the Cold War that was Americas greatest achievement and stood it in good stead with most people for forty years.
It was also politically and economically in the USAs best interests to have strong trading partners in Europe at a time when Europe was it.

If an American today says thats bull, then its only because increasingly the USA has used up a lot of that good will tothe point that for many only a sense of obligation remains.

The US is talking the talk of building bridges and goodwill in the middle east and I hope to god they are right, but it is looking more and more like a Arabic version of Versailles at the moment.

[edit on 28-10-2004 by craigandrew]