Convince me

Gazrok, do you bekive in any spiritual alien races visiting us, or they all self-serving baby eaters?

I don't have enough evidence to say I "believe" much of anything about what they are like. I do know that there are more accounts and more evidence to back the "grays" existance above other races (as other races have at most only a few accounts to go on, and almost no even alleged documentation to go on...) There is even evidence from varied sources which support their origin (Zeti-Reticuli system) Personally, their actions thus far do not support the idea that they desire to be beneficial to mankind. That, and either they lack the drive or the ability to engage us in warfare. This leads me to conjecture that their interest in us is akin to how a scientist might study a guinea pig. But I will be the first to admit that it is pure conjecture and an educated guess at best.

Yes, some documentation has proven to be hoaxed, but others still hold up to even intense scrutiny. Same with the photo and video evidence.

As for Roswell, even if you completely threw out the personal accounts, you still have:
1. the US Army's own press release and cover of the Roswell Record.
2. the paperwork, much of which continues to hold up to scrutiny.
3. the Ramey memo.
4. the admitted coverup
5. the blundering recent USAF coverup
6. the complete reorganization and shakeup of the defense department in the same month with no prior indication of it happening, and done in a hasty manner.
Even without the testimony, there is still compelling evidence that something of EXTREME importance happened here, and it all started with a press release of a captured UFO....

As for Corso, I'll admit he's guilty of a little ego-inflation, but he was hardly in a position to largely profit from his book....more of a memoire to preserve the existance of a dying (now dead) man.

Those same statistics state that intelligent life ahs a good chance of wiping itself out. So far, intelligence has not proven itslef ot be a viable trait in the long tun. We nearly destroye dourselves on more than one occassion.

Yes, but we're still here aren't we?

No problem though, always good to consider both sides of an issue.... While in college I even did two persuasive essays, one for, and one against UFOs being aliens. It was interesting to sit on both sides of the fence, and try to argue either side of the issue....

[edit on 27-10-2004 by Gazrok]

I don't have enough evidence to say I "believe" much of anything about what they are like. I do know that there are more accounts and more evidence to back the "grays" existance above other races (as other races have at most only a few accounts to go on, and almost no even alleged documentation to go on...) There is even evidence from varied sources which support their origin (Zeti-Reticuli system) Personally, their actions thus far do not support the idea that they desire to be beneficial to mankind. That, and either they lack the drive or the ability to engage us in warfare. This leads me to conjecture that their interest in us is akin to how a scientist might study a guinea pig. But I will be the first to admit that it is pure conjecture and an educated guess at best.
[edit on 27-10-2004 by Gazrok]

So, is it because of the dearth of evidence of contacts with benevolent beings, that you have a tendency to disbelieve such races exist. The Pleaidians being one such example?

From
www.galactic2.net...

"...we are conditioned by our own paradigms not to accept the possibility or probability of a highly advanced intelligent civilization coming here to visit us. You have evidence in the form of highly credible reports of objects being seen, of the entities inside these objects being seen. Yet, we look for a prosaic explanation and we throw out the bits and pieces of the evidence that doesn't meet our paradigm (Fallacy of Exclusion?). So it is a self-keeping secret. You can conceal it in plain sight. It is political suicide to go and start hitting up intelligence agencies to get this information released. So, most of your members of Congress, and I know I�ve worked with a lot of them along that line, will balk and try not to do it. I can name you three members of Congress that were point blank asked to have a congressional inquiry on what happened here at Roswell�"

Read the rest from this website.

[edit on 28-10-2004 by evilution]

So, is it because of the dearth of evidence of contacts with benevolent beings, that you have a tendency to disbelieve such races exist. The Pleaidians being one such example?

Yes.

Evidence we have for the grays...
1. numerous sightings
2. numerous PROFESSIONAL accounts (high ranking military, police, etc.)
3. numerous government documents
4. even the origin of their homeworld (documents, Hill starmap, etc.)

Evidence we have for other races...
1. fewer sightings...
2. even fewer PROFESSIONAL accounts...
3. no documents I'm aware of, other than those alluding generally to aliens.

I'm not dismissing them out of hand, but just not willing to get off the fence on them yet, until I see more to support them...

Originally posted by Gazrok

Evidence we have for the grays...

1. numerous sightings

Numerous sightings of greys, or UFO's?

2. numerous PROFESSIONAL accounts (high ranking military, police, etc.)

According to the disclosure project, which as you know is comprised of the highest ranking professionals in US, and that claims more than 50 different alien species, most of them are non-hostile, and many benevolent. So by your own standards, should this not be legitimate evidence for the existence of benevolent aliens?

4. even the origin of their homeworld (documents, Hill starmap, etc.)

Whenever I see Betty Hills drawing of the star map, and then compare it to the actual constellation it supposedly represents, I don't see that much correlation. If you would be so kind, can you link me to a more clearer picture of the star map.

I'm not dismissing them out of hand, but just not willing to get off the fence on them yet, until I see more to support them...

I would not say you're on the fence on them, if you were, would you have dismissed the pleadians as nonsense? As they are the only recorded benevolent race with corroborating evidence.

[edit on 29-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Thanks for all of the links, I've done alot of reading up about the subject. I still aren't sure which side of the fence I'm on but atleast I know more about it. Sorry if I came across as arrogant in my first post and sorry for making a stupid thread. I did read through quite a few threads here but most of them were bias in the way that aliens do exist, I wanted to hear both sides of the story.

I think there is life out there somewhere, as people have been saying, out of all the millions of planets out there, atleast one other than earth must have some sort of life on it. Whether it is just microbes or and advanced civilisation I don't know, and I think no-one does. Except perhaps a handful of people in the government or something.

Thanks for all the help and again, sorry for sounding like a "n00b" or a complete idiot

Numerous sightings of Greys. They are the most often reported race by abductees, and CE of the 3rd kind.

Here's a good link showing her original star map, and the stars identified. It should be noted that some of these stars weren't even known by astrologers at the time, but confirmed later. Furthermore, she also identified the stars that were yellow ones...

www.100megsfree4.com...

I'm "on the fence" at the prospect of more races actually visiting us on a regular basis. I'll agree there is evidence of more than one other race actually out there. My nonsensical view of the Pleidians largely centers around the hoaxers that try and further it. (i.e. Meiers and others, even cults). Likewise, while I applaud most efforts of the DP, I believe wholeheartedly that they are hitching their wagon to the wrong horse in the case of Meiers.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Numerous sightings of Greys. They are the most often reported race by abductees, and CE of the 3rd kind.

They certainly are the most often reported. Simply because they are more popular, does not mean the others reported, do not exist. That would be like saying because the most commonly seen animal is the cat and dog, the other animals do not exist.

In the end we take it on a case-by-case basis, not on the basis of quantity. For instance, there are a lot of reported Reptillian encounters, but to date, I have not seen one with any corroborating evidence.

My nonsensical view of the Pleidians largely centers around the hoaxers that try and further it. (i.e. Meiers and others, even cults). Likewise, while I applaud most efforts of the DP, I believe wholeheartedly that they are hitching their wagon to the wrong horse in the case of Meiers.

Which ET contact has as much evidence as Meier?

100% Prophetic record
Scientifically validated ET Metal alloys
Scientically validated ET UFO sounds
Thousands of pictures and dozens of 8mm video footage, that remain irreproducable to date.
Books of transcribed contacts

Am I right in saying your only objection to Meier is because of one photograph, of Asket and Nara? That is claimed to be taken from a television screen. How much proof do you have of this? And how do you account for the rest of his evidence?

P.S You were going to show how his predictions are open to interpretation etc.

[edit on 29-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Am I right in saying your only objection to Meier is because of one photograph, of Asket and Nara? That is claimed to be taken from a television screen. How much proof do you have of this? And how do you account for the rest of his evidence?

No. Any of his pictures can be easily duplicated with a sheet of glass and a model. We've already established that you and I see differently on Meier. The reasons below are my reasons for doubting Meier, and they aren't likely to change...

1. Asket and Nera hoax...(Swiss MIBs switched 'em...indeed )
2. Time travel photos hoaxes (shown to come from other sources)
3. Video (a noticeable wobble as if hanging from a string)
4. That one man can have SO many sightings, and get such pictures, and of a variety of craft, when most never even have one sighting.
5. The practice of him insisting on meeting the aliens "alone" and having his "followers" wait for him.
6. The fact that the photos are obviously of smaller objects close to the lens. Many of his photos are so obviously fake that it's a miracle he was ever taken seriously.

Need I really go on....???

P.S You were going to show how his predictions are open to interpretation etc.

Thanks for the reminder. I'll so after the holiday (will be busy this weekend, so little time to look up his predictions again to do a proper post).

Hey

I'm sure 100% aliens exists...I just know!!!!
Why our planet earth could be the only one, that is just absurd, totally!!!!!!! If they do not exist, if the only thing living in this wide univers is us, humans on earth, suffering, working, eating junk and die, well someone just kill me and let me dissapear!!!!!!!! That just CAN'T be it! why would we exist, what would be the PURPOSE of that?????????????
We just don't know that's it! What we don't know does'nt do not exist!

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Originally posted by Gazrok
Am I right in saying your only objection to Meier is because of one photograph, of Asket and Nara? That is claimed to be taken from a television screen. How much proof do you have of this? And how do you account for the rest of his evidence?

No. Any of his pictures can be easily duplicated with a sheet of glass and a model. We've already established that you and I see differently on Meier. The reasons below are my reasons for doubting Meier, and they aren't likely to change...

1. Asket and Nera hoax...(Swiss MIBs switched 'em...indeed

)

Where is the evidence of this. Can you please link me to both sides of the argument.

2. Time travel photos hoaxes (shown to come from other sources)

Don't no anything about this. Not seen mentioned on his site.

3. Video (a noticeable wobble as if hanging from a string)

UFO's wobbling is not that surprising. I have seen other accounts that show how UFO's wobble when changing speed or direction, or tilting on their axis.

4. That one man can have SO many sightings, and get such pictures, and of a variety of craft, when most never even have one sighting.

Well, the difference being he is a "contact" and has worked with the Pleadians in his past life. Remember, not all men are of the same spiritual development.

5. The practice of him insisting on meeting the aliens "alone" and having his "followers" wait for him.

Even if that were true, there would have been someone whose curiosity got the better of him, and snooped on him. Is there someone?

According to Michael Horn there have been dozens of witnesses who have seen the beamships. You are the only one so far who says otherwise. Can I have a link?

6. The fact that the photos are obviously of smaller objects close to the lens. Many of his photos are so obviously fake that it's a miracle he was ever taken seriously.

Is that not for the photograhic analysis to decide. According to which, they are not obvious, nor fake, in fact genuine. The fact that they remain irreproducable to date, and the ones that have been produced, in age of computer photoediting, have not been tested, nor look as convincing to me, carry more weight than mere incredulity.

Need I really go on....???

Yes, until he is disproven.

Thanks for the reminder. I'll so after the holiday (will be busy this weekend, so little time to look up his predictions again to do a proper post).

If you don't mind, but can you also forge some UFO photographs, using the method you stated. You say it is easy. I want to just how easy it is.


[edit on 29-10-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Lets not hijack the thread with a conversation about Meier. I'll be making a new post on him in the next few minutes...we can continue there if you like...

For now, let's stick to the original topic...