Gun Control... A possible Compromise

reply to post by xedocodex


Im not an American or pro gun..

Im a realist.. And know that this issue has the potential to wreak havoc on your country.. I also know that any legislation made will epically fail..

Why?

Because there are so many firearms in the US that it will make any legislation unworkable.. Plus it takes down one of the foundations of your countries highest ideals..

What is wrong with teaching kids safe handling? Debating the consequences of irresponsable use? Surely that is more benificial than knocking down the pillars of your countries foundations?

Yeah, Adam Lanza's mom taught him all about guns -- you see how well that turned out.

reply to post by EvanB


Not every American thinks that gun ownership is a great American ideal. Some think it is an outdated and paranoid addiction.

We have a gun problem in America, we have issues with kids or other wackos shooting up schools. The last thing we need is to make guns/gun culture more prevelant in schools.

No one is talking about gun confiscation, well the only ones that are are the pro-gun people that are paranoid. Most people are talking about LOGICAL gun control measures. Full background checks, full psychiatric check, waiting periods, national registrations on gun and ammo purchases, restrictions on high powered guns/ammo, etc.

Personally, yes, I would like to ban guns. But I'm logical about it and know that isn't going to happen, so I am supportive of stricter gun control. But saying we should EXPAND the gun culture and expose all kids on the handling of guns is just going in the completely opposite direction. The only people who would support an idea like this are the pro-gun people who also want to arm the teachers.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Yeah, Adam Lanza's mom taught him all about guns -- you see how well that turned out.

Yep, and that should just about destroy the OPs argument and end the thread.

Well done.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Yeah, Adam Lanza's mom taught him all about guns -- you see how well that turned out.

Exactly, it's not about guns. It's about people.

Read my RANT and then read the LINK I posted on page 1.

What we've got in the US of A is:

1. Constitutional law which people agree to be governed-by and the second amendment is framed-in Canon and Ecclesiastical Law where arms are seen as an ascribed right.

However, what we are seeing with gun legislation is an attempt to limit or infringe upon this right by statute law made by men.

2. The Bill of Rights spells out the inalienable right and the second amendment does not allow either to be changed. This is the only interpretation I can infer.

The false ideology perpetuates tyrannical solutions in direct and indirect disregard for what is and what isn't.

There are two schools of thought on the issue of keeping and bearing arms and one viewpoint suggests freedom and self-governance over legislation requiring subjects or citizens to register a fire-arm and have it at-risk of confiscation. If that happens, it's indeed an infringement.

And what disturbs me the most is the linking of medications or mental status of anyone, which is an invasion of privacy in the worst way, to whether people can "legally" keep and bear arms is ridiculous.

But we'll keep hoping people act in reasonable and rational ways instead of being provoked by constant Main-Stream-Media fear-mongering attempts. If this gets more intense, people might demand a debate and an intensely sacred right as the second amendment is very dangerous to fool around with trying to promote an agenda for a minority-interest.

I don't think I'd provoke any American with this issue, or you'll start seeing a "Don't Tread On Me" attitude developing across the nation.

Somebody is messin' with fire...

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Yeah, Adam Lanza's mom taught him all about guns -- you see how well that turned out.

It's my understanding that your scenario, is what we call, "Too little, Too late"...

The OP is talking about educating the little ones, earlier on, than the Lanza mother, did.
Exposing kids to the dangers inherent to firearms, just like we do with every other thing that can harm a child.
Teaching respect for them. Children respect fire. Children respect heights. So on, and so forth.

But no. It's the gang culture that teaches them about guns, now! While the parents are both working two jobs, or worse. They stay at home, on the govt. handouts, and expect society to raise their little benefit multipliers...

Of course, the OP's idea, isn't an end all, solution. It will take an assortment of programs and grass roots efforts to retame society.

But the one thing that you should NOT do, is blindfold and handcuff the ones that are capable of doing the taming...

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


It will take a lot of preachin' and exorcists with good ol' fashioned butt whoopin's till they can't sit down kind of retaming.

Worst thing they did was take corporal punishment away from the schools.

I can remember in the 80's that high school students had shotguns on racks in their trucks parked on campus and the principal had a board of education as long as your leg. We'd never thought to get a gun to settle a disagreement, if it got to that point.

We'd go at it feller to feller, put up your dukes and whomever is left standing won the argument, while the principle sat and watched until it was over then ordered everyone into the office for a paddling.

Then, they'd get another whoopin' when they got home...lol.

It was simple then...not now...

I think kids need a gun safety class myself.
I homeschool and you can order a video on it with a worksheet/book for free.

Anyway, I got one, did it with my son, and passed it around the homeschool group.
I think it was here: www.nssf.org...

Also, there's gun safety videos on youtube.

We also taught our son to shoot. He has a healthy respect for firearms.

Of course, we also taught him about the constitution, and the 2nd amendment.

I saw a video once where this lady that was very anti-gun had to go live in the home with a couple of very pro-gun folks, a dad and his son - it was great- anyone know what that was?

You could tell she was terrified to even be around a gun. It was like a phobia IMO. Anyway, she also had to work in a gun shop. The point was, she had to try to understand why people were so protective of these things she loathed so much.

In the end, she went to meet a man who had been a victim of a home invasion by some really bad dudes. He had saved his family.

She still didn't like guns for herself as I recall, but she changed her tune a LOT after she learned more about them.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Yeah, Adam Lanza's mom taught him all about guns -- you see how well that turned out.

Criminals should not dictate your individual freedoms.. Or they win.. You get disarmed.. They dont.. Then you become easy pickings..

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


Hey, I'm all for education, but it won't solve the problem we are trying to fix right now -- easy access to military weapons by crazy people who want to kill lots of people as quickly as possible.

My idea of a compromise is what Obama has said all along -- keep your handguns and shotguns and rifles for hunting and personal protection -- and leave the weapons of mass destruction to the soldiers on the battlefield.

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

It will take a lot of preachin' and exorcists with good ol' fashioned butt whoopin's till they can't sit down kind of retaming.

Worst thing they did was take corporal punishment away from the schools.

I can remember in the 80's that high school students had shotguns on racks in their trucks parked on campus and the principal had a board of education as long as your leg. We'd never thought to get a gun to settle a disagreement, if it got to that point.

We'd go at it feller to feller, put up your dukes and whomever is left standing won the argument, while the principle sat and watched until it was over then ordered everyone into the office for a paddling.

Then, they'd get another whoopin' when they got home...lol.

It was simple then...not now...

I had more paddlings, or licks, than I can recall....It taught us respect. I still visit with a few of my teachers and coaches from back then. And, I make it a point to thank them all, for not giving up on me.

I also was involved in more than a few brawls. We would knock each other around and wrestle in the dirt a bit, until one had had enough. And, then afterwards we'd shake hands, dust each other off, and head to the McDonald's....With both entourages, in tow....

It was a time of identifying with each other, and with ourselves! Our examples were our parents, teachers and town elders. Not P-diddy, any of the Kardashians, or some punk thug who lives over in the next town...

Respect was earned, and then it was equally given! And understanding how that worked, made us ALL better people.

I hear a lot about "compromise" from your camp ... except, it's not compromise.

Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, "Give me that cake."

I say, "No, it's my cake."

You say, "Let's compromise. Give me half." I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.

Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.

There I am with my half of the cake, and you walk back up and say, "Give me that cake."

I say, "No, it's my cake."

You say, "Let's compromise." What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what's left of the cake I already own.

So, we have your compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and I'm left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.

And I'm sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.

This time you take several bites -- we'll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I'm left with about a tenth of what has always been MY ***** CAKE and you've got nine-tenths of it.

Then we compromised with the Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble), the HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble), the Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM), the School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)

I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being "reasonable", and wondering "why we won't compromise".

I'm done with being reasonable, and I'm done with compromise. Nothing about gun control in this country has ever been "reasonable" nor a genuine "compromise".

Originally posted by kaylaluv
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

Hey, I'm all for education, but it won't solve the problem we are trying to fix right now -- easy access to military weapons by crazy people who want to kill lots of people as quickly as possible.

My idea of a compromise is what Obama has said all along -- keep your handguns and shotguns and rifles for hunting and personal protection -- and leave the weapons of mass destruction to the soldiers on the battlefield.

Have you always marched to the beat of that drum? Or does Obama just seem to have a little more rhythm, than the rest of us?

The FACTS are:

1) The weapons used in these recent shootings ARE NOT military weapons! They may look like them. But absolutely do not function like them.

2) Weapons for personal protection must include, equal force to what those that we are protecting ourselves from, have. You don't bring a stick to a sword fight!

3) Necessity is the mother of invention! Crazy people, hell-bent on killing lots of people, will find a way to kill lots of people! It does not matter what you restrict, ban, outlaw or make disappear, with your super ray!

4) Compromise! This is the most ridiculous notion that has ever parted ways with the anti-gun people's mouths.
Compromise, is something that occurs when two opposing sides, find a suitable middle ground between new ideas, that infringe on each others' wants and desires. It is a give and take! It is NOT taking away from one side, only! And, since your side has nothing to give, how can it possibly be considered a compromise?

5) The 2nd amendment DOES NOT infringe on anything relating to those who don't want to own guns! My guns do not interfere with your life, your liberty, OR your pursuit of happiness! In fact, logic dictates quite the opposite!
Crazies and criminals, infringe on all of us, though...

This one is more of a statement, than a fact, but...

6) I have a BIG problem, with those who believe that the military should be allowed to use whatever means available to slaughter whomever our "leaders" deem necessary, but would freely disarm the good citizens of this Country, even though many live in battlefields, right here at home! I guess as long as you feel safe, while our young men and women, follow their orders and take lives and give lives, in some other part of the world, then that's just fine! But, the truth of the matter is, Freedom, starts right here at home!!!


Well, you said that you are "all for education". So, what have you learned?

This story could probably come from 80% of the guys I grew up around and with minor modifications, many of the girls. I'm from a semi-rural county on the Georgia/Alabama border. I graduated high school in the early nineties. Lot's of people hunt around here; there were a lot of veterans from WWII; Korea, and Vietnam; and we are really close to Columbus-Ft. Benning Georgia. Almost every home I knew growing up had some type of firearm in it.

At the earliest ages, we saw guns shot. It was made perfectly clear that touching a gun when we weren't supposed to meant the most sever of ass whoopings. At some point after kindergarten, under close adult supervision we were taught safe handling and then allowed to fire a gun. Around the same time, we got our first BB gun. The rules were the same for it as real gun. My brother and I wore several of those damn things out, along with hundreds if not thousands of cans. After a couple of years of BB gun and heavily supervised shooting we got our first guns. The most common first guns amongst my peers were .22 cal rifles and 20 or .410 gauge shotguns. My grandfather wheeled and dealed with a local hardware store and got us 3 breach action single shot shotguns as my brother and I's first guns. He wouldn't get us a rifle, even a .22, because of the amount of property we had to regularly shoot on wasn't great for firing even a low caliber rifle.

Almost every boy I knew at some point in their early teens took a Hunter's Safety Course. Seems like it was between 12 and 20 hours. Those involved in Scouts were exposed to firearms safety there. Up until my senior year and the advent of "zero tolerance" school policies, it wasn't uncommon to see trucks in the high school parking lot with deer rifles and shot guns in the back window on a rack.

Ironically enough, the only signifigent period of my life I slept under a roof without a firearm under it was the almost 3 years I lived in a military barracks (they were locked in an arms room in a separate building then). I imagine most semi-rural and rural areas are like mine around this country, even those in the the very gun unfriendly states in the Northeast along with Illinois and California.

Those that attack the Second Amendment aren't just attacking "evil guns". They are attacking the last means of defense against a tyrannical government. And most importantly to me they are attacking the way in which I grew up along with all the great memories of the thoroughly decent men in my family that taught me to respect and use firearms.

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


See??

Emotive subjects lead people to jump the gun without reading the message..

What is wrong about teaching kids firearms discapline? Its hardly a compromise hey? It is more of a positive action than curbing peoples freedoms and would be benificial to a society that lacks the responsable use of the rights of your country..

It maybe too late for this generation.. But the next would be armed with knowlege and not lose fundemental rights because of the acts of a few deranged individuals..

It is my personal belief that successive government have tried to disarm you for years.. And the reason you are not all under totalitarian government is because of the second ammendment and THEIR fear of it.. Now they have the opportunity and political will to knock down one of the very pillars to your countries foundations and people are letting them.. Surely then education is a fine tool to nip any political shennanigans in the bud?

Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by GoOfYFoOt

 

See??

Emotive subjects lead people to jump the gun without reading the message..

What is wrong about teaching kids firearms discapline? Its hardly a compromise hey? It is more of a positive action than curbing peoples freedoms and would be benificial to a society that lacks the responsable use of the rights of your country..

It maybe too late for this generation.. But the next would be armed with knowlege and not lose fundemental rights because of the acts of a few deranged individuals..

It is my personal belief that successive government have tried to disarm you for years.. And the reason you are not all under totalitarian government is because of the second ammendment and THEIR fear of it.. Now they have the opportunity and political will to knock down one of the very pillars to your countries foundations and people are letting them.. Surely then education is a fine tool to nip any political shennanigans in the bud?

It's the firearms Owners Job to educate their children in firearms safety, the LAST person I want teaching my kid how to safely operate a firearm is a liberal leftist teacher that doesn't like firearms and isn't proficient in their use.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Or.... Ex Soldiers or Marines becoming educators ... They would do a fine job in this type of study

Originally posted by GoOfYFoOt

Well, you said that you are "all for education". So, what have you learned?

I've learned to be ashamed to be part of the human race. Humans are a barbaric, violent species, with enough of a brain to come up with bigger, more powerful, and more destructive weapons of death -- and they love having them, and using them.

Maybe in my next life, I can be part of a more evolved species somewhere else. Cuz this one sucks.

Originally posted by randomname

why, because they are kids, and shouldn't be around guns.

you shouldn't be teaching them how to defend themselves against evil at such a young age. that's what you are there for.

when they are old enough to understand and want to know they will come to you.

Wait...what?!

Kids should ABSOLUTELY be taught gun safety, which is what the OP is proposing. You are extrapolating that to 'tactical shooting'. Not the same.

Here's the reality of life (in case you didn't think of this) there's about 88 guns per 100 people in America. That means that even if you are a dyed in the wool defenseless liberal, the odds are your child's friends families are not. And odds are those families might own a gun. And sadly (through lack of education) there's a chance that those families don't practice good gun safety in the home.

So over the course of your child's youth, s/he will likely be exposed to a gun, as in, "Check out my dad's cool 9mm Glock!"

Safety education in school would provide what many parents do not: The knowledge and common sense for your kid to respond to the above with, "Put that away! I don't want to mess with it!"

ETA:
As Hadriana posted above, the best way for a kid to learn respect for firearms is for them to shoot and see the power a firearm has. I know when I was young my grandfather shot a watermelon with his hunting rifle for me. That generated a healthy amount of respect right there.