Violent video games and movies are conditioning people "Pavlov style" to massacre and murder as

I think it is more "desensitizing" than "pavlovian conditioning" but I do see it as a social problem also. One could even classify extreme violence in games and film as blood porn.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

All I can say is properly diagnosing your children, for Mental disorders should be every parents choice to do so. Letting 6,7,8 year old play GTA, again a Parents choice, but not a good one in my eyes. I think Morals and Principles should be first and foremost for a child. Love, and getting them help if they show Mental problems early. The only way to do that, is to be in your kids lives daily. Not letting a TV or Game be the Parent.

Well now I won't debate that a bit and I am sincerely coming from a position of bafflement as to what there IS to do about it beyond a slow, general turn from making 'the more grossly violent and depraved, the better' the reigning priority on some classes of games and movies.

No question this is a parental thing and my son was not playing first person shooters before he turned 10. Most of his friends were considerably younger though and we caught some grief over that from him, but so be it. I wasn't going to have a child still determining reality from fantasy at that age....beating women to death for scores on the screen, then hugging his mother goodnight.

There is a mixed level of messaging there at the ages this starts at now that I don't think we ever saw anything remotely close to for comparison in thought. I also didn't grow up in a world where it was common to see full color video on the news of kids, sometimes in little packs, randomly beating REAL people for what would appear to be little more than amusement. How many of those have we seen in recent years? How many walk past it...IN PROGRESS...and do nothing? Don't even say anything... THAT is something I never recall seeing as common? ....how to drop kick parents into being parents tho? Oh..now that'll make ya rich to answer effectively.

reply to post by sonnny1


I would say it's a very small percent, and I can't say for fact that it is a factor, but it seems plausible.
I am talking about people that are so introverted and unstable that they don't have friends online or offline. That play the games and become obsessive over them.

Imagine being on a mind altering drug that makes you violent/suicidal, and then plugging yourself into a virtual world with headphones and first person perspective, killing people all day everyday. No reality breaks for work, no friends, nothing except for mind altering pharmacueticals and a violent game world. Toss a little "natural" mental illness in there and it is plausible that it could cause one of these outbursts. I mean we have read stories of parents being killed by their kids after taking their game systems away as punishment. I think it's very possible with the right recipe.

Of course, 99.9 percent of people who play games have a real life, responsibilities, some social interaction. It's not really the games fault, it's the parents for allowing their kid to completely submerge themselves in this online world, especially while on these drugs. They drugs are in my opinion a bigger factor than the games.

just sayen

Does make you wonder include sports game and...
possible programing. subconscious

Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by johngalt722

 

Yes, I am translating it to that.

I think that violent video games should be regulated like alcohol. For adults only, ID required and perhaps with the requirement to register as one does when buying a gun to purchase.

I think Hollywood should take a long look at the damage they have done to society by making "justified" massacre, fun, funny and lacking any emotional or "real" consequences. Movies or TV channels rated with V should be locked down so that only those with ID to prove they are adults can attend or access. Right now R rated movies frequently have children in them with their parents, that should be ended and only people with proper ID and above 18 should be allowed to attend.

Why is it so impossible for our society to learn from the recent massacres by gamers? We learned about the dangers of not using restraints in autos. We learned that the drinking age needed to be raised to 21 and only adults have access. Why can't we learn from gamer massacres and restrict the purchase to over 21 only?

Care to elaborate on how we learned the drinking age needed to be raised or the dangers of not using restraints in Autos, even though I believe its still not compulsory in Cali. for back seat passengers to wear restraints.

It is disgusting, I mean the glamorization of violence in society but you sound like you have no idea how society works.

We have these games and movies because a majority crave for them and if not the majority its the loudest voice which gets its way and so far the loudest voice has been screaming for more violence, the loudest voice is society itself

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

don't forget the game Catherine, you know cheat on your girlfriend, get drunk in a bar and die. Umm ya

Originally posted by sylent6
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

don't forget the game Catherine, you know cheat on your girlfriend, get drunk in a bar and die. Umm ya

That game literally made me dream about pushing blocks haha. I swear I could see the blocks when I closed my eyes. Edge..edge...edge...edge.

I wanted to bring this over to add to the discussion. I was looking for one of the original source articles I recall reading when the first Max Payne was released as to why the developers did NOT make it 1st person. This goes further in making the point....but to recall what I'd read then, the story line and intimacy of the brutality of it was too intense, they feared in a first person "This is YOU .." kind of perspective. I haven't played Max Payne 3 yet..but I will eventually I suppose. I loved the first 2. It sounds like another 'don't even think about letting the little ones play' though.

Max Payne 3 might be the most violent videogame I've ever played. I'm shocked we never saw it as part of a Fox News anti-gaming tirade or in front of a Congressional committee on videogame violence. If you play it you will understand what I mean the first time you shoot a bad guy in the neck and see him collapse to his knees while blood spurts out of the gaping wound. The violence is brutal and unapologetic, yet it never felt inappropriate, and I realized why during a viewing of RoboCop.

and I have to agree with the article on the next part. This part of Robocop IS still a scene I recall in great detail despite not having seen it but a couple times and not for many years. The first time...was meaningful..to put it one way. It hit harder than it should, perhaps...but was one of the more violent and brutal movie scenes I've seen.

When Peter Weller's character, police officer Alex Murphy, gets caught by Clarence Boddicker and his gang in the factory towards the beginning of the film, Boddicker blows off Murphy's right hand with a shotgun blast, and the rest of Boddicker's gang unloads shotgun shell after shotgun shell into Murphy. Murphy's body armor gets shredded to pieces but keeps him alive, and Boddicker finally puts Murphy down with a pistol shot to the head. The murder of Alex Murphy ranks as one of the most violent scenes I've ever seen in a movie. .....

Source

In my own childhood...ONE stands out as a movie I'll never forget the scene from despite not being able to name WHICH film of his it was...but it was SO brutal to me as a small kid...I was sick. Not stomach sick. Heartsick..would be the term in hindsight. That was the Bruce Lee film where he's tortured at length with a propane torch across his back without mercy or let up. To me as an adult or even teen? Violent scene. To me as a small child? Well.... That was over 30 years ago I saw it and it still stands out VERY clear. Those scenes aren't rare today...they are the common rule now.

I could give a pretty realistic example of how computer games can have a baring on real world behaviour (I think I can anyway).

On a gamer scale I'd probably rank somewhere in the middle,I'd maybe play for an hour or two 5 days of the week, although if I get into a 'session' I can be on for a lot longer. I'll also have periods where I don;t even think about playing computer games and wouldn't really miss or think about them.

The game I play would usually be FIFA (a football/soccer sim). This game can make me immensely angry when I'm playing it to the point that I'm smashed a number of controllers into pieces, broken my foot kicking an extremely heavy bookcase, I often put my head right into the computer screen and shout things like some sort of deranged idiot and i make all sorts of weird screeching and whining sounds. Quite frankly I'm a mess who loses all control of his emotions when I'm playing and losing the game.

However once I turn the console off I leave that sort of behaviour there. I've not been conditioned to carry this behaviour over into the real world. It's merely a release where I can let emotions pour out in a relatively controlled and ultimately safe way ( apart from damaging my foot I've never done physical harm to anyone or even come close to it, I only get angry with myself).

I also regularly attend real life football/soccer matches and my 'deranged' behaviour has never shown a sign of rearing its ugly head there.

I have a regular opportunity to test your hypothesis that video games are conditioning people "pavlov style" and I would say I disprove it. When in the computer world of football I regularly loose the plot, yet in real world I'm completely in control 100% of the time.

Most people are never going to be near to or involved in any sort of massacre or mass killing so will never know if they've really been conditioned, from applying your reasoning to my example of football i'd say the idea of that being possible was nonsense.

I hope that makes a bit of sense, I think it does anyway.

I must be in severe danger of becoming a NFL player because I love Madden. Also Goombas and Shy Guys need to watch their backs, because I've spent hours playing various Mario games.

That just aint the case. People can play a violent videogame and still be unable to see real blood. I know a guy fond of videogames, tried to get into the medicine field to operate equipment, he couldnt stand what was going on in surgery rooms.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I have Max Payne 3 and love it but even I would gave that game a adult only. There are scenes in that game makes you go..wow

And yes it tops the most violent video game ever list according to me.

reply to post by Merinda

exactly what i've been saying. seeing it in real life up close is horrifying. something that games are currently unable to replicate, and as a consequence (thankfully) prevent people from being desensitized to real horrors.

Originally posted by sylent6
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

don't forget the game Catherine, you know cheat on your girlfriend, get drunk in a bar and die. Umm ya

that's a new 1 for me sylent6, But wow the minds that put these games together you have to wonder where the ideas come down from.. And why.

It would be hypercritical of me to act like some of the games aren't my favs. I am just posting to present data that yes I have noticed some things in the games thru time.. As another stated as of now what sells sex/violence so this ofcourse is going to be an angle for the marketers of the games to attract to. Just like movies and music what sells violence/sex so those marketers attract to that market of conscious entertainment.

Originally posted by unityemissions

reply to post by Spruk

 

It pains me to even have to offer, but if you really like, I can spend two minutes of my time the same as anyone else, and find at least a dozen more studies for you to critique. . . or you could take the time to do the same on your own.

edit on 3-1-2013 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

It can pain you all you like, I've read a lot of studies and research, both linking violence to video games and film and disproving other studies. To this day it is still hot topic in the psychological world, hence there is studies starting and concluding each year. Until these come to a conclusion you cant just post studies to say "yay, we are right video games cause violence!11!!111", as i can post various other studies to disprove these.

Just because there has been a controlled study does not mean its 100% applicable to society, some studies are what are commonly called "shake and bake studies" these are studies which have a conclusion, to which a group of people now need to prove said conclusion, as opposed to posing a question, and letting the study decide the answer.

Again i'll go with some quotes:

“But millions of people play violent video games and the overwhelming number wouldn't dream of enacting what they see on the screen.”
The urge to kill has more to do with the mind of a killer than the entertainment he or she prefers, Samenow said.

- Dr. Stanton Samenow (21/12/2012)

“The NRA is arguing that the problem is imaginary guns, not real guns,” said Dr. Craig Ferguson, a professor at Texas A&M International University. “We have yet to see any good evidence to link video games to violence.”

- Dr. Craig Ferguson

Psychology Today - Violence in media - Published February 24, 2012

Science Now - Violence in video games reduce real life violence - 2008

Video games and Violence - Is there a link (examiner 2012)

violent video games and movies causing violent behavior - Psychology Today Eugene Beresin, M.D & Steve Schlozman, MD

I can keep going if you like? I know for a fact i wont dissuade you from your current opinion, however i can post counter points, studies and articles to ensure other readers can look at this objectively as opposed to only single sided.

in my honest opinion these comments are simply finger pointing.

Originally posted by Ghost375
You're wrong.
Prove it.

www.webmd.com...

www.sciencedaily.com...

phys.org...

medicalxpress.com...

www.amazon.com...=cm_cr_pr_product_top

www.psychologytoday.com...

I could go on and on. Just Google it, there are hundreds of studies that show exactly what I postulated.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
There is no scientific evidence linking video games to real world violence.

Neither is there any evidence to tie movies to such a thing either. What there is evidence of is that we are slowly creating an atmosphere where violence is regarded as normal and OK.

That is the real problem. But it's not encouraging anybody to go out and commit mass murder. Crazy does that.

~Tenth

You are wrong there is lots of scientific evidence. See my previous post.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
if its operant conditioning, what is the reward given for the desired behavior ?

The reward is the points gained or whatever the games gives the player to go on to the next level or to win.

reply to post by randomtangentsrme


So true, but Socrates was talking about rude behavior.
This isn't rude behavior, it is training for mass murder. A little different.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
Sure, some people play violent video games all day and don't act out in violence - but many people DO act out violently as a result of their lifelong exposure to the glamorization of violence.

Let's not start being dishonest here. You've got the above backwards. I'll fix it for ya:

Most people who play violent video games all day every day don't act out in violence. A very few people DO act out in violence as a result of their exposure to violence in video games.

Those people who do act out have mental issues in one form or another. But you're not going to sit there and falsely protest that out of the millions upon millions of people who play shooters like Call of Duty, or criminalistic games like Grand Theft Auto, that many of them act out in violence because of their "exposure", and that only "some" of them don't act out. That is absolutely inaccurate and absurd.

Sorry it is neither inaccurate or absurd, see my list of scientific studies that back up my statements.
People who play these games are in denial about the side effects.