Your poor it must be your fault

reply to post by wantsome


we're all created equal... atleast in my country. But it doesn't mean we all perform equally.

so I agree with the topic title.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


But we're not all created equal, and it's our job as a society to care for the ones who are less fortunate than us.

reply to post by Dispo


unless you're speaking specifically about mental retardation then I would have to disagree with you... obviously you are a liberal briton, it is safe to assume your train of thought.

we don't think that way where I was raised... all is "learned"

en.wikipedia.org...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

reply to post by SisyphusRide


The OP specifically mentions schizophrenia in his post, which is exactly what I've been talking about throughout this thread.

Your implication that cognitive function is the only dividing line of equality is silly.

Thalidomide children for starters, genetic predisposition to obesity, palsy, cataplexy, the list goes on.

Edit:
>implying I'm a liberal
>implying that my beliefs and morals can be categorised in to "people I agree with" and "people I disagree with"

In response to your edit - just because someone said something 300 years ago doesn't mean they were right.

reply to post by Dispo


you know wealth may just cure that condition

in this case it is mental retardation, societies have forever since antiquity taken care of their "truly" mentally ill.

a liberals definition of any mental condition can be subjective to suit their needs... there is something wrong with everyone according to most liberals.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

you know wealth may just cure that condition

Are you talking about schizoids?

reply to post by Dispo


this post is obviously trying to make a connection with the massacre... in that boys case, no he wasn't mentally ill by my definition. He was well aware and premeditated the act.

in his case, a quite functioning and apparently normal boy from the picture we got, yes untold amounts of wealth would have cured him.

the droolers and super paranoid's are pretty much committed already. It is a very liberal act to try to understand that which they can not comprehend and classify it as some type of condition.

the truth of the matter is there are other factors and underlying conditions by which the socially engineering media has not let on to the public about.

jealousy and contempt are pretty strong emotions...

reply to post by SisyphusRide


What are you talking about?

reply to post by Dispo


about the thermodynamics of matter creation from nothing...

what are you on about?

hm. Societies have taken care of their severely disabled....usually by leaving them out in the snow. At any rate, I am considered "liberal" by my friends, even though i am for gun rights, and loathe democratic ideologies (and obama) as much as i distrust republican ideologies (and bush, mccain, et al). And yes, I do think there is something wrong with most people. I have to say, that I see most people around me in american society, adults, grandparents, et al, as wounded children. They almost all have severe pathologies that they most likely will not recover from. Most develop no wisdom or maturity as they grow old, the vast majority are addicted to some substance or medication or other, none have any conscious development or expansion, no wisdom, no insight. No ability to offer constructive advice, as they are as lost and confused by their life as their children are.

We have no standards of or process for growing, for critical thought, for development of patience, wisdom, compassion or humanity here. All people are desperately holding onto their youth, because they have not been given the tools to find meaning in their adulthood or old age. They feel as though once they have lost their sex appeal, or the adrenalin rush of young age, power, and romance, there is nothing left. My father expressed to me his sadness a few years ago, at the ripe age of 56, that all the best in life is behind him, and he has nothing to look forward to. My friends, in their mid thirties, are all lamenting that they will never achieve their dreams, and must settle for a life without joy. This is not because there is no joy in their future, but that all they have been taught is worthwhile in life, due to the consumer culture they were raised in, where constant stimulation was the name of the game, has not prepared them to understand or accept, or more importantly find joy and meaning, in the second half of their life. We do not meditate, we do not ponder, and because of it we are unable to find meaning, to find simple joy in being, to learn acceptance of reality as it is, rather than what we would have it be.

Working in hospitals for over a decade, i can tell you that most of my patients die in misery, lonely and afraid, on so many drugs that they are not even masters of their own thoughts....but they are not alone in this. Most westerners are not masters of their thoughts even without drugs. It is only through meditation or process work of some dedicated sort, that we become conscious and aware of, rather than subject to, our thoughts. Instead, here, we flee from our thoughts, we flee from our pain, rather than trying to heal or understand it, and so our lives are filled with prozac, alcohol, Mary Jane, and so on. Most of our recreational activities are not Re-Creational, ie, they are not attempts to recreate ourselves, or to grow, they are to escape.. To escape ourselves, that we cant stand to face, to escape reality, that so conflicts with how we are told it is supposed to be. To escape fear, hopelessness, and lack of love.

The only answer is to somehow throw of the shackles of a society of lies. We need to somehow institute a new societal norm that incorporates mediation and contemplation as a daily practice for all, rather than the boob toob and the booze. People need to start growing up, start finding meaning detached from material possession, start finding connections to other people, rather than isolation from them. All these things are the antithesis of what society focuses us on right now, they are the antithesis of a consumer society, they are the antithesis of external control. Some movement needs to be started to help us no longer be the isolated, medicated, spoonfed, socialized, indoctrinated consumers that TPTB have intentionally fabricated. We are truly living in a prison for the mind, and it is one that encompasses the wardens as well as the inmates. Personal awakening, conscious expansion, cultivation of love, wisdom, compassion, is where you, I, and everyone else will find our key. Start today. I will allocate 15 minutes of meditation towards it today. Will you? Maybe tomorrow it will be 10, or 20. Next week....who knows?

reply to post by SisyphusRide


I'm saying that there are many reasons for someone to achieve less than you in life. Mental illness and physical disability being two of those reasons.

You seem to be suggesting that schizophrenics with money will overcome their schizophrenia with more success than their less well off counterparts.

Originally posted by pexx421
hm. Societies have taken care of their severely disabled....usually by leaving them out in the snow. At any rate, I am considered "liberal" by my friends, even though i am for gun rights, and loathe democratic ideologies (and obama) as much as i distrust republican ideologies (and bush, mccain, et al). And yes, I do think there is something wrong with most people. I have to say, that I see most people around me in american society, adults, grandparents, et al, as wounded children. They almost all have severe pathologies that they most likely will not recover from. Most develop no wisdom or maturity as they grow old, the vast majority are addicted to some substance or medication or other, none have any conscious development or expansion, no wisdom, no insight. No ability to offer constructive advice, as they are as lost and confused by their life as their children are.

We have no standards of or process for growing, for critical thought, for development of patience, wisdom, compassion or humanity here. All people are desperately holding onto their youth, because they have not been given the tools to find meaning in their adulthood or old age. They feel as though once they have lost their sex appeal, or the adrenalin rush of young age, power, and romance, there is nothing left. My father expressed to me his sadness a few years ago, at the ripe age of 56, that all the best in life is behind him, and he has nothing to look forward to. My friends, in their mid thirties, are all lamenting that they will never achieve their dreams, and must settle for a life without joy. This is not because there is no joy in their future, but that all they have been taught is worthwhile in life, due to the consumer culture they were raised in, where constant stimulation was the name of the game, has not prepared them to understand or accept, or more importantly find joy and meaning, in the second half of their life. We do not meditate, we do not ponder, and because of it we are unable to find meaning, to find simple joy in being, to learn acceptance of reality as it is, rather than what we would have it be.

Working in hospitals for over a decade, i can tell you that most of my patients die in misery, lonely and afraid, on so many drugs that they are not even masters of their own thoughts....but they are not alone in this. Most westerners are not masters of their thoughts even without drugs. It is only through meditation or process work of some dedicated sort, that we become conscious and aware of, rather than subject to, our thoughts. Instead, here, we flee from our thoughts, we flee from our pain, rather than trying to heal or understand it, and so our lives are filled with prozac, alcohol, Mary Jane, and so on. Most of our recreational activities are not Re-Creational, ie, they are not attempts to recreate ourselves, or to grow, they are to escape.. To escape ourselves, that we cant stand to face, to escape reality, that so conflicts with how we are told it is supposed to be. To escape fear, hopelessness, and lack of love.

The only answer is to somehow throw of the shackles of a society of lies. We need to somehow institute a new societal norm that incorporates mediation and contemplation as a daily practice for all, rather than the boob toob and the booze. People need to start growing up, start finding meaning detached from material possession, start finding connections to other people, rather than isolation from them. All these things are the antithesis of what society focuses us on right now, they are the antithesis of a consumer society, they are the antithesis of external control. Some movement needs to be started to help us no longer be the isolated, medicated, spoonfed, socialized, indoctrinated consumers that TPTB have intentionally fabricated. We are truly living in a prison for the mind, and it is one that encompasses the wardens as well as the inmates. Personal awakening, conscious expansion, cultivation of love, wisdom, compassion, is where you, I, and everyone else will find our key. Start today. I will allocate 15 minutes of meditation towards it today. Will you? Maybe tomorrow it will be 10, or 20. Next week....who knows?

thank you

thank you for being you!