Why does Finland Lead the World in Mass Shootings?

Originally posted by foodstamp
reply to post by AtticusRye

 

Don't you go using big words with me dummy! Lol

Sorry, I keep forgetting this an estadounidense-centric forum. How about this?

If you have 10 Taco Bell Burrito Supremes, and someone else has one Super Biggie Sized Dr. Pepper, the person with 10 Taco Bell Burrito Supremes has 10-X the number of products as you.

You look like you might be able to digest this a bit easier, no?

Originally posted by AtticusRye

Originally posted by foodstamp
reply to post by AtticusRye

 

Don't you go using big words with me dummy! Lol

Sorry, I keep forgetting this an estadounidense-centric forum. How about this?

If you have 10 Taco Bell Burrito Supremes, and someone else has one Super Biggie Sized Dr. Pepper, the person with 10 Taco Bell Burrito Supremes has 10-X the number of products as you.

You look like you might be able to digest this a bit easier, no?

Look bud, i just wanna know if those tacos are gonna come with a colostemy (more red lines!) bag!

Clearly you are WAY to smart for me... Lol

Reply to post by misscurious

Agreed. Lack of sunlight depresses people. So they drink, become more depressed and kill people.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I love it people explain away that every other country it must be a one off event. Statistics are statistics they do not lie. Take into account that many states in the US have a population greater than many countries then we can say it is just a one off event.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Finland likewise had a “freak” event following a shooting in a school in late 2007 that I would guess accounts for most of its deaths.

Nope. The 9 killed in that mass shooting (en.wikipedia.org...) actually accounted for zero of Finland's deaths since it happened in 2007 and wasn't included in the stats. That's according to the list of events contained in the "compendium" of the website referenced. So feel free to subtract that "freak, one-off" event since it won't actually change Finland's totals as it wasn't used to calculate them in the first place.

Look, this is really simple. All the chart says is that - from 2008 to 2012 - if you were living in Finland you had 7-X the likelihood of dying in a mass shooting than in the U.S. That's all. Don't make it more difficult than it is.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Well it is true take Slovakia for example, they have only had one mass shooting in which 8 people died, if it was not for that they would not even be on this list let alone anywhere near the top, same can be said of Norway.

The statistics presented here do not show a fair representation of the reality, for example America leads the word in number of mass shootings and number of fatalities as a result of mass shootings, those statistics are much more significant that these. This is a 5 year period looking at shootings “per capital”.

The fact is that these statistics can be mostly attributed to “one off” events, but in America mass shootings are not “one off events” they are turning into a devastatingly regular occurrence. There is no denying this, it is a fact.

reply to post by AtticusRye


Sorry for that fair enough, but the point does still stand regarding the “one off” events for places like Norway, Belgium and Slovakia.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

The statistics presented here do not show a fair representation of the reality, for example America leads the word in number of mass shootings and number of fatalities as a result of mass shootings, those statistics are much more significant that these. This is a 5 year period looking at shootings “per capital”.

It's called "per capita" - I don't know what "per capital" means.

Raw data is not a "statistic." It is "raw data." Per capita measurements are applied to contextualize data.

America has 314 million people living in it - 300% more than the next largest nation in the OECD.

There are 60,000,000 Americans who are underweight, according to WHO. There are 15,000,000 French who are underweight. By your logic, America has a fitter population than France. But it doesn't, because those 60 million account for only 20% of the U.S. while the 15 million French account for 25% of their population.

Nations are always compared by percentile factors. You are changing the rules of the game when you hear data you don't want to hear.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoinThe fact is that these statistics can be mostly attributed to “one off” events, but in America mass shootings are not “one off events” they are turning into a devastatingly regular occurrence. There is no denying this, it is a fact.

Three ultra-violent mass shootings in Finland - with a population the size of North Carolina - is not a one-off event. There were even more that are outside the time period.

Four mass shootings in Germany - and one they didn't include in the table because it was a "political crime" - is not one-off. Plus all the ones that are outside the time period like the Erfurt massacre when 16 Germans were slaughtered but it happened before 2008.

You hear about "shooting events" in America "every week" for the same reason you hear about America winning more Olympic gold medals than Finland. It has a larger population and more opportunities for shooting events or Olympic medal wins to occur. If we allow ourselves to be guided by the volume of the media, we will come to conclusions similar to yours. If we allow ourselves to be guided by science and reason, we won't.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Actually like I said if you consider each state as its own country which is how it was intended then you will see that it is one off events. We simply have a larger population than most countries. Before you go saying things like

America leads the word in number of mass shootings and number of fatalities as a result of mass shootings

Perhaps you should check the numbers in Mexico first.

"More than 30,000 people have died across Mexico since President Felipe Calderon launched an offensive against the drug cartels in 2006."
Oh I forgot anti-gun people conveniently leave out countries like those even though they are legal gun ownership restrictive and boarder the US. It would put things in perspective too much.

Fact is there is a higher possibility that you would die from a mass killing in Finland than the US.

The fact remains, between 2008-2012, you were roughly 7X more likely to be killed in a mass shooting in Finland than in the US and roughly 16X more likely to be killed in a mass shooting in Finland than in Canada.

When comparing countries it needs to be done by percentage of population otherwise the numbers will always be skewed. I think some people still do not understand that fact.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

Actually like I said if you consider each state as its own country which is how it was intended then you will see that it is one off events.

Good point.

Eleven U.S. states have a homicide rate lower than the tranquil European duchy of Luxembourg (2.5 per 100,000):

Hawaii - 1.8
Idaho - 1.5
Iowa - 1.3
Maine - 2.0
Minnesota - 1.5
New Hampshire - 0.9
North Dakota - 2.0
Oregon - 2.3
Utah - 1.4
Vermont - 1.3
Wyoming - 2.0

While only five U.S. states (+DC) have a homicide rate higher than Lithuania (6.6 per 100,000):

District of Columbia - 24.2
New Mexico- 10.0
Louisiana - 12.3
Illinois - 8.4
Alabama - 7.1
Maryland - 7.7

Let's just drop those 6 states/DC and call them "one-off / unusual places" and say we can't count them towards the total as a result ... LOL.

source: www.census.gov...

reply to post by AtticusRye


You will have to excuse the typo,

You can argue all you want but the fact remains, America has a serious problem with shootings. Now you can bury your head in the sand but at the end of the day based on those statistics America has a big problem with mass shootings.

The solution is up for debate, be it more gun control or even perhaps less gun control. One thing is clear, that status quo is not working.

Hmm given its per capita im very surprised New Zealand isnt much further up on the list to be honest... we've had a few mass shootings here the last 2 decades and our population is alot smaller than Finland. Although thats the problem, they're only basing it on a recent 4 year period... heck go back a few decades and watch that list order change rapidly I mean only going back 4 years, really? Talk about skewing your data.

Go back and include the 90's and you can stick Aramoana and the Raurimu ski lodge shootings and NZ would jump a good 10 places or more.

And to side with the Fins a little, as a country that also suffers from a sort of winter blues I can say the environment can make you 'twitchy'.

I can't believe people couldn't understand what per capita meant......

reply to post by AtticusRye

Hmmm two in Mexico in 5 years.......yeah right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or is that 2 in 5 years "ignoring all the gun crime by drugs gangs because they distort the numbers" approach.

I think the stats are suspect.

Originally posted by GAOTU789 Finland has one of the highest civilian ownership of firearms in the world for the population size.

Finland has a large hunting/gun culture, just like the US. Which is why the covert operators will continue to hit Finland until they agree to bring their laws into line with the highly restrictive laws of the EU.

11-7-07 Jokela High School
"Such a tragedy in the normally peaceful Nordic nation should make Finland reconsider its campaign against European Union plans to tighten gun ownership laws for youngsters, a senior cabinet member told Reuters."

considering people are using the whole United States per capita instead of individual state, it makes me wonder how these numbers would look if you used the total EU population...

considering they are no different in my opinion... if you are not going to look at each state by itself, why would you look at each EU country? you either need to look at both in whole(USA/EU) or individual state/countries.

There are 30 students in class, 3 of them have apples for lunch and the rest have bacon.

The amounts of apples per capita (students) = pc
number of students S
Number of Apples A

PC = A/S
PC = 3/30

In this particular classroom there is 0.1 apple per capita

It's the average amount of apples... this is all pretty simple.

Now this thread is about "per a country's sample population" so it doesn't matter how many people live in it. You can always simplify it to the to x number of occurrences per person.

Now you know.
Let's move on.