I need your help identifying some information

reply to post by JewAgainstZionism


Too late for any of that. Cat is out of the bag, and if they are strategic, then whoever is on their way to retrieve them as we speak. Doubt if classified though, that would be clearly marked.

I recognized the tapes right away. Bad news for you everything that I have seen are "BLANK" tapes. The tapes are from AMPEX and designed to run on one of the AMPEX 3000 tape transport system. This picture that was previously posted is of an AMPEX 3000I recorder.




Prior to the 3000I (which I have worked on) was the AMPEX FR3010 recorder. The FR3010 I worked on for many many years. The FR3010's used 9 tracks. I do not remember the nomenclature of the one used prior to the FR3010s but that is the ones that your tapes are used for. It used 5 tracks. A tape on that system was used 10 times before it was sent back in to AMPEX for re certification. After each use the tapes were degaussed prior to it's next use. It was also degaussed prior to being sent in for recert. In this picture previously posted





note that the mission number (usually a specific satellite) is 2420. This tape is to record the different "streams" and once the "user" has successfully examined this data the tape would be degaussed as set aside for the time the look at this mission (again usually a specific satellite). Note the boxes below the labeled part that says "TOTAL PASSES" in these boxes would be written the particulate streams that is recorded on the tracks. Such things would be T1 (telemetry string 1), T2 (telemetry string 2), C (commands), E ( command echo) I ( IRIG-B). NOTE: command echo is a return for the satellite to ensure that the correct commands made it to the satellite before the commands are activated. IRIG-B stands for inter range instrumentation group format B. IRIG-B is time signal so that the user can tell when each event in the other tracks acutely happened. This is very important as from this they can tell where the satellite was at that time. They would hate to think a weather picture for Dallas was taken at the time the satellite was over houston.
Anyway back to the picture. since none of these blocks are filled in no data was recorded after the last recert and degause. So the tape is blank.
Red reels vice metal ones. The metal ones are more accurate so that when the data speed is higher on the tracks you will get a more accurate playback. the metal keeps the tracks over the read heads better than the plastic ones. The fact that the plastic ones are red does not have any specific meaning, they are just cheaper than the metal ones.

reply to post by remembering


Thank you for your last post that is a tremendous contribution and wealth of information, also it was exactly what I was trying to find out about with the surface info and all. What does the identification block store, and also with the info that is on the outside is it possible to find out what they were previously used for like what apollo mission and things like that?

reply to post by JewAgainstZionism


Thank you for your concern, I trust the people of ATS to help me investigate the tapes. I am not worried the government are to concerned I have the tapes either. I read every post in this thread some multiple times over I agree there probably isn't anything earth shattering on them so far I have gotten a tremendous education on not only these tapes but also of computer and recording equipment of the 60's and have been building a clearer picture of how NASA did their jobs before the modern age of computing, this has been a worthwhile and successful endeavor for me.


Brotherman

www.n2yo.com...

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Based on the plethora of Info Remembering posted I have come across these sites and am further looking into the tapes blank or not. I am having a hard time finding the satellite unless I did find it on the first link above, if that is the correct one it says it has been dissolved or something along them lines, I am still trying to learn more and thanks again everyone!

So far based on further looking it appears that the tapes served as part of a function on the Apollo 8 mission I am searching this avenue because of the time frame on the tapes themselves and information given to me by my late friend. I came across this:
history.nasa.gov...

I would also like to add this the search has led me to this that will undoubtably take me a long time to read but thought it makes an appropriate additive to this thread as well:

www.scribd.com...

reply to post by Brotherman


Check Ebay for a reel to reel to view these on (OR) sell the lot to me

reply to post by Brotherman


Have you seen this? Apollo 11 missing tapes

reply to post by Staroth


I dont think there is any kind of readable info on them anymore I do wonder if they have a value or not though, only value I would put stock into though is for historical reasons. I am aware of the apollo 11 tapes but these are not it time frame and other discrepancies prove they are not the ones.

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by Staroth

 

I dont think there is any kind of readable info on them anymore I do wonder if they have a value or not though, only value I would put stock into though is for historical reasons. I am aware of the apollo 11 tapes but these are not it time frame and other discrepancies prove they are not the ones.

I would think that there is a good possibility that if there is any information on these reels, it is most likely still readable.

As far as base line possibilities are concerned, it really has to do with how they were stored. Humidity is the enemy of magnetic media, but the quality of this type of tape is probably the best there was at the time.

Like another poster commented, the way in which this data was stored, and the electronics required to decipher the format that they used is really important, and you may never be able to read the data correctly if the format was custom, and designed for a specific, non generic purpose. Good Luck!

Addendum:

I should probably tell how I am familiar with these particular tapes. I was a crewmember in P-3 anti-submarine aircraft back in the cold war. We used the 9 channel audio format, which basically let us place the output of up to 8 sonobouys on these tapes (Track 1 was dedicated to an sstg timestamp). We could then take the tape back to base and do a realtime analysis of whatever the operation was. It was cool, as we could plot a target through a field of sensors and figure out if we were tracking them correctly or screwed up. Analog still had a competitive advantage in those days! But the computer required to do the realtime analysis was way to heavy to have on the airplane. How things have changed.

Originally posted by charlyv

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by Staroth

 

I dont think there is any kind of readable info on them anymore I do wonder if they have a value or not though, only value I would put stock into though is for historical reasons. I am aware of the apollo 11 tapes but these are not it time frame and other discrepancies prove they are not the ones.

I would think that there is a good possibility that if there is any information on these reels, it is most likely still readable.

As far as base line possibilities are concerned, it really has to do with how they were stored. Humidity is the enemy of magnetic media, but the quality of this type of tape is probably the best there was at the time.

Like another poster commented, the way in which this data was stored, and the electronics required to decipher the format that they used is really important, and you may never be able to read the data correctly if the format was custom, and designed for a specific, non generic purpose. Good Luck!

Addendum:

I should probably tell how I am familiar with these particular tapes. I was a crewmember in P-3 anti-submarine aircraft back in the cold war. We used the 9 channel audio format, which basically let us place the output of up to 8 sonobouys on these tapes (Track 1 was dedicated to an sstg timestamp). We could then take the tape back to base and do a realtime analysis of whatever the operation was. It was cool, as we could plot a target through a field of sensors and figure out if we were tracking them correctly or screwed up. Analog still had a competitive advantage in those days!

edit on 28-12-2012 by charlyv because: added errata

Very cool. Ours were also 9 channel and as I said our time stamp is called IRIG-B. My job at the time not only recorded contacts with satellites but we maintained these recorders and much much more equipment down to component level. Just to let you know that one of the biggest problem with these tapes is the the medium on the tapes would oxidize leading to a build up on the read/write heads. We cleaned the heads (with a cleaner that is now illegal) just before we mounted a tape. Some times the tapes would be so bad you just could not use them as it would build up in just a few seconds. I hate to say don't bother but bottom line is if it is a satellite tape and it is not to old to play back and you get the equipment to do it. They still look to be blank tapes and if they are not, all telemetry is encrypted on board the satellite and a proper decrypted would be required to read it. Just to add more bad news most of the recordings were not recorded in the normal digital format ( 1 is a 5 volts and 0 is 0 volts) they were recorded in a bi-phase format such as bi-phase-mark or bi-phase-level. If that is the case then there would be a further requirement do get it to a readable format.
formats

Originally posted by remembering

Originally posted by charlyv

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by Staroth

 

I dont think there is any kind of readable info on them anymore I do wonder if they have a value or not though, only value I would put stock into though is for historical reasons. I am aware of the apollo 11 tapes but these are not it time frame and other discrepancies prove they are not the ones.

I would think that there is a good possibility that if there is any information on these reels, it is most likely still readable.

As far as base line possibilities are concerned, it really has to do with how they were stored. Humidity is the enemy of magnetic media, but the quality of this type of tape is probably the best there was at the time.

Like another poster commented, the way in which this data was stored, and the electronics required to decipher the format that they used is really important, and you may never be able to read the data correctly if the format was custom, and designed for a specific, non generic purpose. Good Luck!

Addendum:

I should probably tell how I am familiar with these particular tapes. I was a crewmember in P-3 anti-submarine aircraft back in the cold war. We used the 9 channel audio format, which basically let us place the output of up to 8 sonobouys on these tapes (Track 1 was dedicated to an sstg timestamp). We could then take the tape back to base and do a realtime analysis of whatever the operation was. It was cool, as we could plot a target through a field of sensors and figure out if we were tracking them correctly or screwed up. Analog still had a competitive advantage in those days!

edit on 28-12-2012 by charlyv because: added errata

Very cool. Ours were also 9 channel and as I said our time stamp is called IRIG-B. My job at the time not only recorded contacts with satellites but we maintained these recorders and much much more equipment down to component level. Just to let you know that one of the biggest problem with these tapes is the the medium on the tapes would oxidize leading to a build up on the read/write heads. We cleaned the heads (with a cleaner that is now illegal) just before we mounted a tape. Some times the tapes would be so bad you just could not use them as it would build up in just a few seconds. I hate to say don't bother but bottom line is if it is a satellite tape and it is not to old to play back and you get the equipment to do it. They still look to be blank tapes and if they are not, all telemetry is encrypted on board the satellite and a proper decrypted would be required to read it. Just to add more bad news most of the recordings were not recorded in the normal digital format ( 1 is a 5 volts and 0 is 0 volts) they were recorded in a bi-phase format such as bi-phase-mark or bi-phase-level. If that is the case then there would be a further requirement do get it to a readable format.
formats

edit on 28/12/12 by remembering because: (no reason given)

I am with you on this. We used to be able to use carbon tetro-chloride to clean those suckers, but as you have accurately responded, that capability was ultimately verboten, and technically relegated to higher authority that would just say "ok for this case, but I never said it " I also understand your decryption argument, but let's face it, there was nothing back then that could have even come close to PGP, and the military was relegated to table driven methods such as in the KW patch boards that are so antiquated today, that they need no further review. I am intrigued with your movement of analog to digital, and the timeframe seems accurate to me. I would enjoy further discussion on a historical context ( and for those that like to think there is a conspiracy likely environment here, just grow up and understand history. Thank you) Addendum: that CMOS 5v and the "then' TTL levels as you know is easily converted on a chip today, not so then. No show stopper for someone that has the knowledge.

reply to post by charlyv


Thanks for all the info, at this moment in time I have so many links to read and understand I got my hands full but thanks to you and Remembering and some other posters you guys have most certainly given me a wealth of information. Never thought I would be reading so much about this ancient technology glad some people here know what they are for sure!

Wow, old NASA tapes are always very cool, even if they're blank they are a piece of what I consider the better part of human history and the original packaging is historically artistic. Thanks for posting this "Brotherman".

I've read the thread and agree with "Remembering's" assessment of the tapes, it's obvious he knows of what he speaks and my limited knowledge of these things agrees with him 100%. I hope you can hook up with "ng#er's" private museum connection and get them read just to make certain. It wouldn't be the first time something was mislabeled in a government operation.

Have you looked at all of the labels? Do any of the "total passes" boxes have anything written in them? While I would imagine if anything was recorded it would likely be telemetry or command data that would need to be deciphered, the possibility of discovering something else (who knows what) would make reading them an exciting experience.

Please update this thread as you learn more will you?

Thanks again for bringing this to ATS.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


None of the tapes have information filled out in the "total pass" section, however there is a tape that is labeled all together different and does not have a NASA indicator on it like the rest I will put pics of it up because this one is not like the others. It is also an Ampex 832 and all that and the only info that is on it is lot# 5586 and writing on a piece of tape that is stuck fast to the protective hard plastic cover and of course it is sealed and inside of a Goddard Space Center jacket, but again this is not conclusive that it has anything on it or not.