For all you anti-gun folks, does this make you want to ban all sharp cutting items?

I usually don't want to get into the pro/anti gun debate, as there is too much rhetoric on both sides of the equation, but this article I saw today, seems like a good way to illustrate a point that I think is often missed by the "anti" crowd.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Here is the bottom line. Bad people exsist. Evil people exsist. Mentally unstable people exsist. As long as this is true, people that are bent on killing, for whatever the reason, will find a way to kill, and if they can, as many as possible.
This particular article just illustrates, in my opinion, that a bad/disturbed person will find ANY way to carry out their attack. This could have just as easily been a club or a broken bottle used. Heck a pair of scissors would be pretty deadly to a group of children, and adults as individuals.
Banning, or limiting the "types" of guns available to law abiding citizens, will do nothing to stop those who are disturbed enough to plan and carry out these kinds of attacks. I would even go so far as to say that a machete could be a much more dangerous weapon for a closed quarters encounter than ANY gun. Ask a cop which weapon they fear to face more, a gun or a knife. The answer might suprise you.
Do I think that there could be some reasonable restrictions to gun ownership? Heck yeah. I wouldn't mind an even more in depth look at any potential gun purchaser, going so far as to look at the stability of the people that live in the same house that the weapons will be stored in. I think that is only common sense, especially in light of the past couple of major shootings, and the way that the guns used were obtained.

Sorry for the probable rehash, but I felt that this particular point needed to be aired in its own thread.

Thank you for your polite and reasoned discussion on this matter.

Danno

Can you read?

There are dozens of threads suitable for this purpose.

reply to post by MoparDanno




How many died?

See them chasing the gunman away.....


Yeah, there's your difference right there.




Also this story (attempted deflection) has been posted a million times now.

I don't see in the source where anyone was killed. Injured but not killed. What's your point? My point is that is makes things much easier for someone that wants to kill if they have a firearm. Thanks for pointing out that that is actually the case.

reply to post by blupblup


I tried to find that answer, but getting info like that from China is pretty difficult. They keep a pretty tight lid on specifics. I would have to assume more than a couple of children were killed. Stabbing 23 kids is bound to lead to some deaths.

And once a shooter runs out of ammo, all he has is a club. A knife wielder still has a killing object...

Thank you for your reply

Danno

Originally posted by intrepid
I don't see in the source where anyone was killed. Injured but not killed. What's your point? My point is that is makes things much easier for someone that wants to kill if they have a firearm. Thanks for pointing out that that is actually the case.

Easier?

In what way. Do you honestly think that it takes more skill to kill someone with a gun or a edged weapon? They call edged weapons hack-n-slash for a reason. All you have to do is swing it. A gun, unless at point blank range, requires a bit more to use and actually hit what you want to hit with it. Some of you anti guys should go to a gun range some time and rent a pistol and try it out. I think you would be suprised at the level of difficulty involved. Not that it is hugely complicated, but it nowhere as easy as you seem to think it is.

Danno

"For all you anti-gun folks, does this make you want to ban all sharp cutting items?"

I'm not anti-gun but I have a few questions for you:

Are there any "sharp cutting items" that can kill multiple people in a short period of time at a condsiderable distance?

Do you know of any restrictions currently in place that ban "sharp cutting items" in certain places?

Would you rather give a pocket knife to a young man for his 13th birthday or an AR-15?

The point is that you're comparing apples to hand grenades....

firearms are Range Weapons.
knives are melee weapons.

i'd take my chances against a Melee weapon any day.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


can we ban explosives before we ban guns, explosives are way more dangerous

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
"For all you anti-gun folks, does this make you want to ban all sharp cutting items?"

I'm not anti-gun but I have a few questions for you:

Are there any "sharp cutting items" that can kill multiple people in a short period of time at a condsiderable distance?

Do you know of any restrictions currently in place that ban "sharp cutting items" in certain places?

Would you rather give a pocket knife to a young man for his 13th birthday or an AR-15?

The point is that you're comparing apples to hand grenades....

Actually yes, quite a few sharp cutting items that can do that job.

Bow and Arrow, Crossbow, spear, hunting boomerang, throwing stars are the first few that come quickly to mind.

Most states have laws about the length of blade that can be carried. 6" is the upper limit, with as little as 2" being on the lower end from my recollection. And yes, try to carry an edged anything onto a commercial airline flight

For his 13th birthday I would hope that a young man already had a pocket knife( I know I had quite a few of them by that age ), and if he were to get a gun, it would be a bolt action .22 of some sort to train him and teach him safe care and handling of firearms.

Thank you for making your reply on point, I do appreciate that!

Danno

Originally posted by mythos
firearms are Range Weapons.
knives are melee weapons.

i'd take my chances against a Melee weapon any day.

I think you are making some inacurrate assumptions.

Lets put it this way, would you rather take your chances on for SURE getting hit, even with an inexperienced operator? or a 20% chance of getting hit, even WITH a practiced operator?

Melee is the for sure way of getting hit. Ranged gun is the "might" get away with not getting hit option. It is incredibly difficult to hit a moving target at anything more than 20 feet with a pistol, and, unless you have alot of practice, between 50 and 100 feet with a rifle.

Thanks

Danno

reply to post by MoparDanno


No... none of those items can even come close to the range, round frequency and velocity of an assault weapon. I'm sorry but that argument just doesn't hold up.

Honestly bud... you don't really think that those things compare do you?

Tell you what.... I'll take the AR-15 and you can have ALL of those "sharp cutting items" and we'll have a little duel... you game?

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
reply to post by MoparDanno

 

No... none of those items can even come close to the range, round frequency and velocity of an assault weapon. I'm sorry but that argument just doesn't hold up.

Honestly bud... you don't really think that those things compare do you?

Tell you what.... I'll take the AR-15 and you can have ALL of those "sharp cutting items" and we'll have a little duel... you game?

edit on 19-12-2012 by Blarneystoner because: (no reason given)

Well that is kind of off the point. The whole basis for this is against a group of unarmed children with a few adults. So in that case, which is what these shootings/stabbings are, both types of weapons are quite deadly. Its not the weapon that is the issue, it is the intent of the USER that is the issue. That is the bottom line that seems to be continually skipped over. ( not necessarily directed at you )

As far as your duel, my grand-daddy always told me to never bring a knife to a gun fight The contest would end up being which AR had the longer reach and accuracy.....

Danno

Banning all sharp cutting items would include:
-any type of knife (steak knife, hunting knife, butter knife, Cleaver, etc...)
-any type of fishing hook.
-razor blades (say hello to my hairy friend)
-arrows used for hunting
-glass or mirrors which can be broken and used as a weapon
Just to name a few....

I really don't think people want to ban guns all together... A mandatory gun registry perhaps would alliviate some of our worries. So not just anyone can buy a gun anywhere they want. Personally I find all this gun banning hype a little over the top. If someone's intention are to kill for whatever reason, they'll find a gun.

But if the U.S can ban Kinder Surprise, they are most definitely going to do something about guns

U.S ban Kinder Surprise

Originally posted by MoparDanno
Easier?

In what way. Do you honestly think that it takes more skill to kill someone with a gun or a edged weapon?

Not necessarily skill but it's much easier to kill with a gun. Think about it man. You need to be in arms length to use a knife. A gun puts you safely away and does much more damage. Ask an ER surgeon whether he would rather treat a gunshot patient or a knife wound. Jeez.

Some of you anti guys should go to a gun range some time and rent a pistol and try it out. I think you would be suprised at the level of difficulty involved. Not that it is hugely complicated, but it nowhere as easy as you seem to think it is.

"Rent a pistol"? Are you serious? Btw, it ain't that hard. Dad taught me on handguns and rifles when I was 12. That is over 30 years ago.

Originally posted by intrepid

Not necessarily skill but it's much easier to kill with a gun. Think about it man. You need to be in arms length to use a knife. A gun puts you safely away and does much more damage. Ask an ER surgeon whether he would rather treat a gunshot patient or a knife wound. Jeez.

"Rent a pistol"? Are you serious? Btw, it ain't that hard. Dad taught me on handguns and rifles when I was 12. That is over 30 years ago.

Again, against unarmed CHILDREN, which is the whole basis of this conversation, do you think it is that difficult to get within arms reach of them?

Gunshot wounds are dirty, no doubt, but I would rather have them survive with a scar, than not survive because they bled out or had a bowel punctured or any of a half dozen other potential stabbing/slashing wounds. Again, ask a cop which he would rather face in a confrontation, a knife or a gun. Any cop I have ever been around point blank say that they are more afraid of the knives and the potential damage that they can do in a close quarters fight.

About renting a pistol, yes, you can rent a pistol within most indoor shooting ranges here in the US. You cannot take it from the range, but you can use it on premises.

Thank you for your comments.

Danno