Knife's have multiple uses, guns don't

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

UH yeah. You read his post right. Guns are used all the time in the USA to teach kids responsibilities and maturity in serious situations and around serious tools. The kids going to have to grow up sooner or later and taking a 12-14 year old down to the range and teaching him gun safety and how to operate a 22 is a excellent method to teach and instill these qualities in kids. You can literally see the kids man up and become more mature in a matter of hours down at the range learning with their dad or the boyscouts how to use a adult tool.

Go down to the local outdoor range on a weekend and watch all the kids with their dads learning to shoot. heck watch the teens working as range safety officers and you will be surprised with the amount of maturity these kids have.

Don't confuse normal human beings learning how to use a tool with a psycho misusing the same tool. They are not the same thing.

Um.. and you feel the need to teach kids this why? And your country is shooting each other on a daily basis why? because its allowed. America allows its public to wield weapons designed for death. This is the reason why you feel the need to teach children the same thing. Viscous circle anyone?

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by ThisToiletEarth

I have a friend in Georgia (Crazy out doorsman) who hunts wild boar for sport with one bare hand
and knife in the other. Knives were built to kill things as well.

I'm shocked this doesn't read 'had a friend'!

I'm also going to come out and say what most gun-owners don't like to admit. Yes, most guns are meant to kill.

I can't speak for your country, but we live in a society where carjackings, home invasions, street muggings, and random violence occur every day. I have guns that are meant to protect myself and my family from being victims. I hope that I never have to even draw my gun and point it at someone, but if I have to defend myself, I will. I will never leave my family's fate in the hands of a criminal and just hope he doesn't feel like hurting someone that particular day. The police investigate a crime after it happens... rarely do they stop it from happening.

So, to your point, yes guns are designed to kill. Is that their only use? No. They are the best crime deterrent ever invented. Many violent crimes are prevented every day without a shot being fired.

Criminals, by definition, break the law. Do you think that if someone is willing to ignore the whole "don't murder kids" rule, they'll be worried about a "you can't have a gun" rule?

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

you listed "eating meat" how did that animal die? "skinning things" how did that animal die? So lets remove your list of knife uses that involve dead things as well.

Stop grasping at straws, if someone needs to eat killing to eat is a way of survival, its allowed, so don't make points that are pointless, lets just say killing to eat something to stay alive is different, but hey im sure you have supermarkets.

If we are using rational logic it's probably worth mentioning that, given the number of guns in the US in relation to fatal shootings, the gun is statisitcally likely to not be used for killing as its primary purpose.

Anyone seriously arguing banning guns I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the collection/disposal and post ban policing process.
Is it rational to also summise that those people intending to use a firearm for an illegal action probably wont be handing in their gun under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Originally posted by Answer
I'm also going to come out and say what most gun-owners don't like to admit. Yes, most guns are meant to kill.

I can't speak for your country, but we live in a society where carjackings, home invasions, street muggings, and random violence occur every day. I have guns that are meant to protect myself and my family from being victims. I hope that I never have to even draw my gun and point it at someone, but if I have to defend myself, I will. I will never leave my family's fate in the hands of a criminal and just hope he doesn't feel like hurting someone that particular day. The police investigate a crime after it happens... rarely do they stop it from happening.

So, to your point, yes guns are designed to kill. Is that their only use? No. They are the best crime deterrent ever invented. Many violent crimes are prevented every day without a shot being fired.

Criminals, by definition, break the law. Do you think that if someone is willing to ignore the whole "don't murder kids" rule, they'll be worried about a "you can't have a gun" rule?

I live in Glasgow, these things you mention also happen here on a daily basis, but we don't need guns to counter these crimes. It's the fact that you have been allowed the gun for so long its now gotten America in the mess it's in today and everyday. Its become so commonplace by the sounds of some of the replies, that even the kiddies are being raised to use the gun as they will need it to defend themselves. Thats the society that America has "created"

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

UH yeah. You read his post right. Guns are used all the time in the USA to teach kids responsibilities and maturity in serious situations and around serious tools. The kids going to have to grow up sooner or later and taking a 12-14 year old down to the range and teaching him gun safety and how to operate a 22 is a excellent method to teach and instill these qualities in kids. You can literally see the kids man up and become more mature in a matter of hours down at the range learning with their dad or the boyscouts how to use a adult tool.

Go down to the local outdoor range on a weekend and watch all the kids with their dads learning to shoot. heck watch the teens working as range safety officers and you will be surprised with the amount of maturity these kids have.

Don't confuse normal human beings learning how to use a tool with a psycho misusing the same tool. They are not the same thing.

Um.. and you feel the need to teach kids this why? And your country is shooting each other on a daily basis why? because its allowed. America allows its public to wield weapons designed for death. This is the reason why you feel the need to teach children the same thing. Viscous circle anyone?

Children who grow up around firearms and are properly taught how to handle them don't fear them like you do. They are aware of how inherently harmless a firearm is unless wielded improperly or used with harmful intent.

You'll find that the majority of these mass shootings are not carried out by children who grew up as gun enthusiasts with proper training and guidance. They grew up in a troubled home, were never taught about guns, and purchased or stole the firearms shortly before committing their acts of violence. The only thing most of these psychos know about guns is what they've learned in movies or video games... just like you.

Responsible gun ownership usually starts at a young age. I was shooting when I was 6 years old and I knew that guns were not toys, they could hurt or kill someone, and I was never to touch one unless it was handed to me by an adult.

No offense intended, but in my experience, a fear and distrust of firearms says much more about the individual's own psyche than society as a whole. I've often heard anti-gun advocates state "if I had a gun, I'd snap and kill someone!" Well... it sounds like you need to figure out what's wrong with yourself instead of blaming it on guns.

As I see it both the knife and the gun have a single created purpose The knife is for cutting and the gun is for throwing rocks real fast. Both however can be used for other purposes depending on the needs and/or desires of the user. Both can be designed to have other purposes, attachments, etc.

If you want to look at the single purpose of killing they are both used for putting holes in things. One, for the most part, is for close encounters and the other is for long distance encounters(ie out of reach).

The difference is that the knife is a lot more universal in that things need to be cut but not too many things need to have rocks thrown at them.

reply to post by Undeadlady


Look YOU are the one that used those examples for uses of a knife while trying to say guns are only used to kill. I'm not grasping at straws, you made a flawed argument and now are having a hard time defending it. I understand your problem, so this is a great learning experience for you to spend more time thinking out your position on the next subject you feel passionate about BEFORE posting a thread you can't defend. It also has not escaped notice that you are selectively replying to posts and not replying to other points you have no answer for.

Good luck in the future.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

there is no difference time wise between a knife getting deployed on a victim, hitting home and doing it's job and a gun. The weapons are used differently.

Yea the gun kills multiple times before you could get near the attacker. Clever to arm the public with these weapons, real smart. Knives were made for other things in mind, guns are made to kill things only. no other reason for the gun.

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Knives were made for other things in mind

How do you know this? The knife is as an evolved version of a sharp stick used to defend, kill and protect.
It was made to kill. The knife (in modern times) has become an art form in craftsmanship. This doesn't make it's purpose or origin any less then what it is.

Fancy stick for poking.

Responsibility and accountability in the modern age has allowed it to be accepted as less threatening.

Going to end my posts with this note, looking from the outside in it saddens me why you all don't see that guns are for killing, nothing else, you all seem to be defending the gun like it's something to be proud of. I don't understand this. I understand that your saying it's for protection and i totally get that, must be scary knowing everyone within range could be packing a gun, but that was not my argument, my argument was about all the knife/tools ban talk, i wanted to make the point that guns are only for killing. Stop the production of guns for the public and eventually they will all be antiques that don't work very well, gotta start somewhere eh.

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

there is no difference time wise between a knife getting deployed on a victim, hitting home and doing it's job and a gun. The weapons are used differently.

Yea the gun kills multiple times before you could get near the attacker. Clever to arm the public with these weapons, real smart. Knives were made for other things in mind, guns are made to kill things only. no other reason for the gun.

Your argument falls flat on its face when we can admit that, yes, the primary use for guns is to kill things. If someone intends to kill me, I want my gun to work properly and kill them first. I don't care if they're coming after me with a gun, a knife, a cricket bat, a chainsaw, or their bare hands. End of discussion.

So what if guns are designed to kill? Criminals have them and will continue to have them for the foreseeable future so I will continue to arm myself with self-defense in mind.

I have a great idea! Let's ban violent crime. That way no one will need any tools for self-defense and we'll all get along just fine. I'll make you a deal: the day that criminals stop hurting people, I'll get rid of all of my guns.

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by Undeadlady

Originally posted by Swizzy
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

Knifes can kill just as quickly is handled properly. A gun is also a poor weapon if the handler has no clue/experience so the 99% death rate you mentioned is farcical at best.

Yes but any moron can kill with a gun, how many expert knife stabbers do you know, my death rate is valid

Just a note here...but how many police shootings have we seen in just recent months where dozens of rounds are fired but only a few hits are scored on the intended target? These are guys trained and tested on a regular schedule for skills with their firearm. They still miss most of the time in real world situations. It takes skill to kill with a firearm, contrary to countless movies which make 100 yard shots look like something any kid can do.

Knives on the other hand? As another poster noted...it's not a stand off weapon. People don't miss. It's very close, fast, personal and irreversible. I've never had the displeasure, but those who have been stabbed tell me it's exactly like the other message says. You feel like you're being punched...not stabbed...and it's a bit confusing why your body isn't working quite right at first.

Guns..Knives...whatever. The weapon isn't the problem and outlawing it isn't the solution. We have a psychosis problem, not a weapon problem, IMO.

Is no one getting my point here, i hear what you are saying, stabbing/knifes can kill, WE KNOW THIS but knifes are not made for killing only, GUNS ARE !!!!

So why on earth make it legal for every American to be armed, this is asking for trouble and total stupidity, can't u see that.

edit on 16-12-2012 by Undeadlady because: (no reason given)

I answered your question. I answered it clearly, in some detail and took a bit to consider the words I chose to do it with. You simply blew it off and ignored it as if I hadn't bothered.

As I told you, guns are made for, used for and DO far more than JUST killing. The people FIXATED on guns as nothing BUT instruments of killing are dangerous to own them and really a challenge to be around when they don't. For those who own them, that attitude is what leads to shootings like this....to those who don't? Well, it's what leads to terminally bad laws and very poorly thought out responses.

If guns caused people to be killed ....we'd have a small nation by now in pure population numbers. We have nearly 1 gun for every American in this nation. We'd have all killed each other off, long ago....if they were single purpose items ..all 260+ million of them. Consider that, indeed.

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Going to end my posts with this note, looking from the outside in it saddens me why you all don't see that guns are for killing, nothing else, you all seem to be defending the gun like it's something to be proud of. I don't understand this. I understand that your saying it's for protection and i totally get that, must be scary knowing everyone within range could be packing a gun, but that was not my argument, my argument was about all the knife/tools ban talk, i wanted to make the point that guns are only for killing. Stop the production of guns for the public and eventually they will all be antiques that don't work very well, gotta start somewhere eh.

Ending your post?
Oh throw some gas on a fire and leave?
Coward. Your argument is flawed, your education is minimal, your understanding of firearms (you admit) is zilch as well.

Fool.

Good. Leave.

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Going to end my posts with this note, looking from the outside in it saddens me why you all don't see that guns are for killing, nothing else, you all seem to be defending the gun like it's something to be proud of. I don't understand this. I understand that your saying it's for protection and i totally get that, must be scary knowing everyone within range could be packing a gun, but that was not my argument, my argument was about all the knife/tools ban talk, i wanted to make the point that guns are only for killing. Stop the production of guns for the public and eventually they will all be antiques that don't work very well, gotta start somewhere eh.

When you accept that your ideas would never work in this world we call reality, you'll start to sound a lot more rational.

Stopping production of firearms for the public would not fix the problem. Drug cartels, terrorist organizations, etc. etc. get their hands on machine guns and heavy weapons every day. Do you think that they buy them down at the local sporting goods store?

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Going to end my posts with this note, looking from the outside in it saddens me why you all don't see that guns are for killing, nothing else, you all seem to be defending the gun like it's something to be proud of. I don't understand this. I understand that your saying it's for protection and i totally get that, must be scary knowing everyone within range could be packing a gun, but that was not my argument, my argument was about all the knife/tools ban talk, i wanted to make the point that guns are only for killing. Stop the production of guns for the public and eventually they will all be antiques that don't work very well, gotta start somewhere eh.

People don't see your point because your point is flawed and flat out WRONG. .....At least in the minds of the people you're seemingly suggesting "just don't get it". Maybe your point is equally valid to some people..I just don't know any that would be likely with, personally. I don't know anyone who views the firearms they own as 100% solely intended to kill living things. Frankly, I wouldn't remain friends with any who did.

As for ending things? It's your right of course...and I've disengaged from a few threads myself. Even my own, on at least one occasion. When I pull out though, it's usually because a MAJOR fight is about to blow up if I don't withdraw...and that is the only basis for it. Nothing in a debate is worth being banned over... However, pulling out because you realize you're the minority opinion .. by far .. is kinda cheap?

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

So it's 'death rate"that matters to you? What is your acceptable "death rate" 1? 3? Kinda sick actually. Look you obviously don't live in the U.S. So frankly you don't have a say in it. You can rant all you want but I and millions of my fellow Americans are never going to give up our firearms. Why don't you try and make your own country a better place and let us worry about ours.

Thanks for your nasty reply, sorry but freedom of speech is allowed in my country as well, and just because i don't live there doesn't mean i don't care about the American people, because i do, and yes the death rate matters a lot to me, i would rather 1 than 3. I don't see what is sick about that.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by Undeadlady

 

Look YOU are the one that used those examples for uses of a knife while trying to say guns are only used to kill. I'm not grasping at straws, you made a flawed argument and now are having a hard time defending it. I understand your problem, so this is a great learning experience for you to spend more time thinking out your position on the next subject you feel passionate about BEFORE posting a thread you can't defend. It also has not escaped notice that you are selectively replying to posts and not replying to other points you have no answer for.

Good luck in the future.

Lost cause then. I just hope the next mass shooting when it happen's doesn't involve anyone here that's replied or their families, because its going to keep on happening i guess, the only question is when. And that is a sad thought.

Originally posted by ThisToiletEarth

Originally posted by Undeadlady
Going to end my posts with this note, looking from the outside in it saddens me why you all don't see that guns are for killing, nothing else, you all seem to be defending the gun like it's something to be proud of. I don't understand this. I understand that your saying it's for protection and i totally get that, must be scary knowing everyone within range could be packing a gun, but that was not my argument, my argument was about all the knife/tools ban talk, i wanted to make the point that guns are only for killing. Stop the production of guns for the public and eventually they will all be antiques that don't work very well, gotta start somewhere eh.

Ending your post?
Oh throw some gas on a fire and leave?
Coward. Your argument is flawed, your education is minimal, your understanding of firearms (you admit) is zilch as well.

Fool.

Good. Leave.

edit on 16-12-2012 by ThisToiletEarth because: (no reason given)

I had to go feed my children, nasty nasty replies. Such nice people, why don't we arm them