The real blame lies with the government and with us.

For all this talk of gun bans and mentally deranged people, there's one question that not many people are asking. Where's the outrage over the inadequate security that our government and schools provide? This shouldn't even be a possibility, folks. If our government is going to educate our children, they damn well should be expected to keep them safe. Even if there were a gun ban, which I'm completely against, its about a decade past time that the government mandated armed security in every public school in America.

Bring in qualified, trained personnel and pay them well. Subject them to frequent psychological screenings for as long as they hold the job. Put two at each entrance and at least one responsible for walking each hall.

As a conservative, I say that it if requires a new tax, its more than worth it.

Its past time this happened, folks. This would make a difference. It might not stop every incident, but it would give us a chance. Right now, when one of these idiots snaps, they've usually got free reign with a gun, knife, baseball bat or their fists for at least 10-15 minutes before the police arrive. Its well past time for that to change.

And as much as its the government's fault for providing inadequate security, its our fault for not screaming for this at the top of our lungs. I think this is a step almost all of us can agree on, so why haven't we demanded it before now?

reply to post by vor78


I think a more practical and realistic solution would be to assign schools as a "beat" for police to patrol on a daily rotating basis.

Many schools in high crime areas already have a large police presence. I don't think it would be too difficult to have a cop begin patrolling the other unprotected schools.

But I don't think this is something that the Govt. should be involved in, just take the TSA for example. I think the local communities should be perfectly capable of handling it.

At the end of every path is an individual that needs to be accountable.

The government is no messiah.

Rather than spending every waking moment, hunting and gathering consumer goods; people should check into their lives.

Security is an illusion. You cannot outsource personal safety.

Let us say we shift all our resources to school security. One day the roof will fall on the kids.

With 7 billion people in the world; 1 million can be crazy, at any moment, and that is still only .00014% of the population.

Best advice, be aware of your surroundings.

I responded yesterday to a similar statement. It sounds like an idea, but we have so much greed and corruption that I see no way it will work.

Consider this. Most police and law enforcement agencies have seen vastly expanding budgets. They spend huge amounts of money on military weaponry and equipment. When I go out and about. I don't see the cops in and around the schools and inner city crime zones...no...they are patrolling the wealthy neighborhoods where crime is generally nonexistent. My guess...they are more concerned with protecting those people's assets rather than protecting all people equally. It's like they are public paid but private security guards. Sure, they write a lot of traffic tickets. The people in these areas speed or run stop signs so they get tickets...and they have the money to pay for them...a symbiotic relationship that is not benefiting the average person in the average neighborhood.

All that being said, I think a storm trooper in the Halls of education is a bad idea for the mental capacity of Children. If they are properly equipped to stop a tragedy, they are going to be scary to the kids. If they look and act like Barney Fife and are nonthreatening to the kids, they would be totally ineffective if and when a event began to unfold.

Our police force is no longer "for the people"...they are, for all practical purposes, a private security company for the wealthy and the corporations...we are just nuisances that get in the way....that is unless they can lock you up in the for profit, privately operated prison industrial complex.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65


All that being said, I think a storm trooper in the Halls of education is a bad idea for the mental capacity of Children. If they are properly equipped to stop a tragedy, they are going to be scary to the kids. If they look and act like Barney Fife and are nonthreatening to the kids, they would be totally ineffective if and when a event began to unfold.
.

I don't necessarily think you need storm troopers, mind you, just a security force armed in a similar manner as what you'd see in your local mall or perhaps similar to the city police. Obviously, you'd want higher hiring and retention standards. Yes, it would introduce some perception problems with some of the kids, but if it results in lives being saved, I think its a worthwhile tradeoff.

Originally posted by watchitburn
But I don't think this is something that the Govt. should be involved in, just take the TSA for example. I think the local communities should be perfectly capable of handling it.

I agree, and I think as part of any security mandate, the day-to-day operations should be handled at the local level. You don't want federal level people doing anything but providing guidelines and standards. And you would want to hire from the local and surrounding communities.

The problem I have with assigning city police to do the job is that a large number of local police forces do not have the staff to provide adequate coverage. Plus, I think if you have only one officer on site, there's a big risk that they could be overwhelmed. You'd need at least three or four, I think, at minimum.

Originally posted by vor78

Originally posted by Jeremiah65


All that being said, I think a storm trooper in the Halls of education is a bad idea for the mental capacity of Children. If they are properly equipped to stop a tragedy, they are going to be scary to the kids. If they look and act like Barney Fife and are nonthreatening to the kids, they would be totally ineffective if and when a event began to unfold.
.

I don't necessarily think you need storm troopers, mind you, just a security force armed in a similar manner as what you'd see in your local mall or perhaps similar to the city police. Obviously, you'd want higher hiring and retention standards. Yes, it would introduce some perception problems with some of the kids, but if it results in lives being saved, I think its a worthwhile tradeoff.

Something is seriously wrong with your country if you actually need armed security guards in a SCHOOL or malls. You should try to fix the root of the problem as this is mostly unique to USA.
Here not even cops are armed but yet we dont have any issues with children being shot to death in school. Neither do we have the need for armed security in malls.

I don't think more security is the answer, we've gone down that road too many times in the recent past and we're not more secure just less free. If someone is intent on doing harm it is going to happen no matter how rigidly secure our society becomes. What happened yesterday is tragic beyond words, it's very difficult to process... it is instinctual to want to do anything and everything to keep it from happening again. The awful truth is that we can't stop it from happening again. If it isn't an armed mentally ill person, perhaps it will be someone behind the wheel of a huge truck plowing into a building or running people off the road. A spoon can be used as a murder weapon. We can't walk around in bubble wrap.

Originally posted by juleol

Something is seriously wrong with your country if you actually need armed security guards in a SCHOOL or malls. You should try to fix the root of the problem as this is mostly unique to USA.
Here not even cops are armed but yet we dont have any issues with children being shot to death in school. Neither do we have the need for armed security in malls.

You're not wrong. We have enormous societal problems in this country that are contributing to these incidents. And yes, we DO need to to work on solving these issues as well, but that's going to take time. I'm proposing an immediate 'quick fix' that won't solve the problems leading to these incidents, but will make the commission of these crimes a good bit harder to carry out.

I heard on a news station covering the horrible incident that there is a conference today to address this issue immediately. Hopefully they come up with a good plan and implement it immediately. I would assume that every town across the country have plans to protect schools starting Monday.

reply to post by jimmiec


With all due respect, there is no solution.

People walk around all day never considering that their end could come at any moment.

reply to post by vor78


And just be at the total mercy of this gov. ? That's just a bit nutty. We should all give up our driving privileges because drunks drive cars and kill people too.

reply to post by zroth


Just have to call attention to the obvious don't cha ?

reply to post by randyvs


I have bad news. We're already at the mercy of this government. And no, we don't give up driving privileges because of drunk drivers. Last I checked, though, we do maintain the highway patrol to help deal with that problem. Its not a 100% solution, either, and I'm not suggesting this one would be, either. But it would make it more difficult for the perpetrators.

What's your solution? I'm pretty sure what we have now isn't working.

reply to post by randyvs


I'm afraid that simple truths and base realities are no longer obvious to the majority of people these days.

Filters are applied to foundations that are built on lies and in may cases, absolutely no reality at all.

Originally posted by vor78
reply to post by randyvs

 

I have bad news. We're already at the mercy of this government.

What's your solution? I'm pretty sure what we have now isn't working.

Our gov. has us to the point of an absolute nervous break down. I propose we go with the flow. After all, if this is all psy-ops then they want our guns awfully bad. And when I think about the reasons behind that ? I become very nervous indeed. Our gov. beckons us to stand up and do something so they can mow the lawn so to speak. They're basically giving us a choice. Stand up for ourselves and die like men now. Or cower and hide and die like unwanted euthanized dogs later. I'm ready to have a go at 'em. So lets have that break down.

Zroth

Sadly I know you're right. So I shout those truths even louder. With a blow horn even.

All of the people who are victims and family members of the victims in these shootings [color=gold]NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT FILING LAWSUITS against any establishments or schools in which these shootings occur in. These schools and establishments lately have FAILED TO PROVIDE SECURITY AND PROTECT OUR CHILDREN and FAMILIES FROM HARM and therefore are RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES AND DEATHS which have occurred in these shootings.

The schools and establishments where these shootings occur need to 1) Offer security via armed professionals either consisting of staff or adequate Police protection or 2) Allow citizens to be granted permission to bring a concealed firearm on the premises if they have a valid firearm carry permit.

ALL VICTIMS AND FAMILY MEMBERS INVOLVED IN THIS NEED TO CONSIDER FILING LAWSUITS otherwise this CRAP will continue and innocent people will remain DEFENSELESS from future shootings. Things need to change FAST and the REAL solution doesnt involve increased gun-control.

reply to post by oper8zhin


I strongly disagree with you. Our society is an increasing police state as it is. As terrifying and heartbreaking as tragedy in Newtown is, I know that I do not want my son to show up to school today with cops patrolling the halls... I know that I don't want him to have to walk through metal detectors or ever get used to these being normal.

What is a lawsuit going to achieve but to draw out the pain and suffering, furthermore it will drain local resources when that money could be used to provide counseling to the children that survived.

There is no blame to be placed here with the possible exception of the mother of the murderer but she is dead. We as a society, especially all of us who were not directly affected, are going to have to be responsible adults here and accept the fact that sometimes we cannot control everything. Sometimes senseless tragedies happen and we are powerless against them, this will always be the case no matter how much of a police state we allow.

What happens to our sense of security when a child dies at the hands of a cop in a school? Cops accidentally kill people they are trying to subdue much more often than a crazed gunman goes on a rampage. What will our actions be then? What will we demand then? What additional freedom will we hand over on a silver platter as we beg to be protected?

If you are a parent please ask yourself this: Do you want your child to be psychologically conditioned into only feeling safe when there is a cop, soldier or surveillance camera present? If you don't believe that this can happen try a little experiment with yourself... I'm assuming most people now a days wear seat belts every time they are in a car... drive without one for 10 minutes and see if you don't feel vulnerable.

And also as a conservative............

Im against more TSA/GOV style policing............

Look I love kids, but ive had enough of the gov trying to pry into my life and daily routine all for the sake of "safety"

I dont want my children subjected to anymore heavy handed b.s. then need be either...........

Just look at the TSA, in all their years since 9/11........and with all the hoops we have to jump through as travelers, and BS to put up with.......have they EVER......stopped even 1 terrorist?..............nope..........

No, absolutely not, no more infringement for the sake of "safety"