Obamacare fee to offset costs of pre-existing conditions

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Free stuff is never free. Socialism never worked and never will. It's always been a huge trick. Bye bye Liberty. Hello totalitarianism

That's the deflection...

No one never said it was free except certain people who hate to share.

What was said was that with everyones input, everyone will benefit. With more people paying into it, it should make the cost more affordable for everyone.

It was never seriously said or believed (by anyone with a brain) to be free.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

Those who will see their strangle hold on us fall away are squeezing tighter in an effort to make us stop "bucking". If you've ever broken a animal, you know they buck really hard before they break. All I see are people who are so scared for the animal (the rich corporations) that you want to let em off the hook.

You seem to have swallowed the lie whole, like a snake swallows a rat. You swallowed the Kool Aid that Obama is the savior of the People and that he is finally bringing to end the evil corporate Capitalists. Obama may be Marxist redistributionist but he sure likes Crony Capitalism while he sucks the middle class dry.

The anecdotal phrase is "It is always darkest before the dawn". Obama is not bringing the dawn however.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Free stuff is never free. Socialism never worked and never will. It's always been a huge trick. Bye bye Liberty. Hello totalitarianism

That's the deflection...

No one never said it was free except certain people who hate to share.

What was said was that with everyones input, everyone will benefit. With more people paying into it, it should make the cost more affordable for everyone.

It was never seriously said or believed (by anyone with a brain) to be free.

It is not a deflection, it is the truth. The Progressives have been trying to convince the people to accept "free stuff" from the govt in return for votes. They just call it a "hand up", which it is not really in the end of it all.

People who "hate to share"? Are you kidding me? The American people are the most generous of all on this planet. Americans have shared their wealth and prosperity all across the planet in every scenario. Are you going to tell me it's only the evil Republicans who don't share, that it's only the Progressives who care? What a bunch of malarchy. I can see right through this nonsense.
Progressives like sharing other people's wealth and/or paychecks. It's so simple.


The whole "if everyone just shares everyone will be taken care of" is a bs lie. Jesus told us "The poor ye shall have with ye always".

What does that mean? It means that no matter how the pie is redistributed there will always be poor people among us. It is just not possible for everything to be completely equitable. The whole thing is a lie. We have seen that people work the system as well. Why is it fair for me to have to "share" my hard earned paycheck so some chick with 6 kids can work the system? It isn't fair one bit. It is not my responsibility to feed and clothe those people when they are taking advantage.
You think you can sell the idea by making it seem fair that the wealthy pay more. It is not fair. The wealthy already pay most anyway, and I don't mean necessarily the SuperElite like Rothschilds.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Your medical plan is facing an unexpected expense, so you probably are, too. It's a new, $63-per-head fee to cushion the cost of covering people with pre-existing conditions under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul. The charge, buried in a recent regulation, works out to tens of millions of dollars for the largest companies, employers say. Most of that is likely to be passed on to workers. Employee benefits lawyer Chantel Sheaks calls it a "sleeper issue" with significant financial consequences, particularly for large employers.

There you go. Everybody thought that this no pre-existing condition thing would be a freebie. There are no freebies liberals. Just another reason for employers to cut fulltime positions and reduce staffing overall. When will liberals learn? Everything has a cost. How many jobs will this cost? If they do not cut jobs over this, the employers will pass the cost along. I will not participate in this non-sense. I am "Going Galt".

Obamacare-fee-to-offset-costs-o f-pre-existing-conditions

edit on 11-12-2012 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

There you go? Why do you think Liberals assumed there was a free lunch here? This plan isn't perfect -- because it ALLOWS for private insurance companies. They have to be paid off -- so they got forced customers and a $63 per head pay off. The taxpayer saves money because they spend less because we PAY FOR these sick people anyway, the presumption here is that if they get medical treatment earlier, they will not get as sick.

This was Bob Dole's plan. It isn't great, but it's the best we can have since "Hillary Care" or single payer are "off the table" because they don't transfer enough funds to Big Medical.

I think you might be talking about YOURSELF when you post this as if it's a surprise.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

Those who will see their strangle hold on us fall away are squeezing tighter in an effort to make us stop "bucking". If you've ever broken a animal, you know they buck really hard before they break. All I see are people who are so scared for the animal (the rich corporations) that you want to let em off the hook.

You seem to have swallowed the lie whole, like a snake swallows a rat. You swallowed the Kool Aid that Obama is the savior of the People and that he is finally bringing to end the evil corporate Capitalists. Obama may be Marxist redistributionist but he sure likes Crony Capitalism while he sucks the middle class dry.

The anecdotal phrase is "It is always darkest before the dawn". Obama is not bringing the dawn however.

Another misdirection, no one is proclaiming Obama the savior...these things were in motion before him.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Free stuff is never free. Socialism never worked and never will. It's always been a huge trick. Bye bye Liberty. Hello totalitarianism

That's the deflection...

No one never said it was free except certain people who hate to share.

What was said was that with everyones input, everyone will benefit. With more people paying into it, it should make the cost more affordable for everyone.

It was never seriously said or believed (by anyone with a brain) to be free.

It is not a deflection, it is the truth. The Progressives have been trying to convince the people to accept "free stuff" from the govt in return for votes. They just call it a "hand up", which it is not really in the end of it all.

People who "hate to share"? Are you kidding me? The American people are the most generous of all on this planet. Americans have shared their wealth and prosperity all across the planet in every scenario. Are you going to tell me it's only the evil Republicans who don't share, that it's only the Progressives who care? What a bunch of malarchy. I can see right through this nonsense.
Progressives like sharing other people's wealth and/or paychecks. It's so simple.


The whole "if everyone just shares everyone will be taken care of" is a bs lie. Jesus told us "The poor ye shall have with ye always".

What does that mean? It means that no matter how the pie is redistributed there will always be poor people among us. It is just not possible for everything to be completely equitable. The whole thing is a lie. We have seen that people work the system as well. Why is it fair for me to have to "share" my hard earned paycheck so some chick with 6 kids can work the system? It isn't fair one bit. It is not my responsibility to feed and clothe those people when they are taking advantage.
You think you can sell the idea by making it seem fair that the wealthy pay more. It is not fair. The wealthy already pay most anyway, and I don't mean necessarily the SuperElite like Rothschilds.

edit on 12-12-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-12-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

No one is saying everything should be divided equally either. We are saying that there should be a MINIMUM to which no one should be able to sink below. Everyone should have healthcare does not equate to everyone should live in a 12 bedroom house!

Someone successful doesn't worry about a woman with 6 kids working the system. Let her work the system! She will SURVIVE, but she isn't going to live as I do and take 2 vacations a year and go exotic places. That's the reason I don't envy them.

When much is given, much is expected. With greater power comes greater responsibility.

Don't worry that poor people are going to live better than you just because we allow them access to healthcare, or even if we insure everyone has a roof and food to eat. They are still just surviving.

Believe me, I would have a problem too if poor people were given my lifestyle and I work hard for mine. But they don't have a month of paid vacation time to visit countries. They don't have the ability to go and buy nice cars and other things, except for tax return season which is their christmas and everything!

Stop worrying about people who don't even have what you have...

My comment is tangential to the OP, but I am in the process of starting a new company. Because of Obamacare most of the people I hire will either be part-time, independent contractors, or both. Chances are I will be hiring Obama voters for these positions. Oh, the irony.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN
GOOD!

Now let the government increase everyones taxes in the US, just a hair, and have free healthcare for all.

USA is the only Westernized nation in the world who makes their citizens pay for care, manually.

THIS

you understand it!!!

Someone in this god for saken country understand it!!! horray!!!

Originally posted by Propulsion
..But think about all those poor children who will now have Obama care to pay their way because mommy is too lazy to go out and get a job. Obama care is only one component of many that enables the poor NOT to go out and better their lives. I mean really, why work if you can have those who DO work to pay your way?

ya know...
it's kind of hard to "better your lives" when there is a giant gap between "poor" and able to actually achieve what is needed...
ya, they go out they get a job, the pay is low enough that they still get help paying their bills, they get food stamps, and help with the childcare, ect. but then, hey they worked hard they deserve that .50 cent raise, and well what happens, they lose some of that help that the gov't was giving them, like childcare, but their pay isn't even close to filling the gap that losing those benefits created.... and they are worse off than they were if they just had avoided getting the job to begin with!!
we can go around in circles all day long about weather they are lazy, or if they really need the help, and who should be helping them, but sooner or later, we have to sit back and just ask ourselves...
why in hades name is the system built like this?? it''s obvious that it is, it's talked about on talk shows and the news, and yet, why do those writing the laws and creating these programs not do something to correct this small, but significant oversight? are they too stupid to see it?? or, is this the desired effect that they want??

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Your medical plan is facing an unexpected expense, so you probably are, too. It's a new, $63-per-head fee to cushion the cost of covering people with pre-existing conditions under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul. The charge, buried in a recent regulation, works out to tens of millions of dollars for the largest companies, employers say. Most of that is likely to be passed on to workers. Employee benefits lawyer Chantel Sheaks calls it a "sleeper issue" with significant financial consequences, particularly for large employers.

There you go. Everybody thought that this no pre-existing condition thing would be a freebie. There are no freebies liberals. Just another reason for employers to cut fulltime positions and reduce staffing overall. When will liberals learn? Everything has a cost. How many jobs will this cost? If they do not cut jobs over this, the employers will pass the cost along. I will not participate in this non-sense. I am "Going Galt".

Obamacare-fee-to-offset-costs-o f-pre-existing-conditions

edit on 11-12-2012 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

Whom said something about freebies? It was about getting the money to cover healthcare. Nobody demanded or promised free healthcare. The talk was of universal healthcare. I bet you are one of those people whom feel they should opt out of health insurance when they are young and healthy but then moan about the high premiums when they need it.

When paying for healthcare is a free choice, it isnt. The guy who asks for rent tells you to make the choice to pay him what you would spend on healthcare or move out and then gives the next guy the same "choice" .

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
My comment is tangential to the OP, but I am in the process of starting a new company. Because of Obamacare most of the people I hire will either be part-time, independent contractors, or both. Chances are I will be hiring Obama voters for these positions. Oh, the irony.

So they have the option of being part-time and receive healthcare due to Obamacare, or before Obamacare the option was full-time work, but no health benefits?

So you would have given them more hours but no healthcare? The extra couple dollars they earned would not have covered healthcare expenses. I believe most people would rather earn a little less AND have healthcare.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN


Now let the government increase everyones taxes in the US, just a hair, and have free healthcare for all.

The existing tax hikes already associated with Obamacare weren't enough?


$123 Billion: Surtax on Investment Income (Takes effect Jan. 2013):

$86 Billion: Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax (Takes effect Jan. 2013):

$65 Billion: Individual Mandate Excise Tax and Employer Mandate Tax (Both taxes take effect Jan. 2014):

$60.1 Billion: Tax on Health Insurers (Takes effect Jan. 2014):

$32 Billion: Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans (Takes effect Jan. 2018):

$23.6 Billion: “Black liquor” tax hike (Took effect in 2010)

$22.2 Billion: Tax on Innovator Drug Companies (Took effect in 2010):

$20 Billion: Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers (Takes effect Jan. 2013):

$15.2 Billion: High Medical Bills Tax (Takes effect Jan 1. 2013):

$13.2 Billion: Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax” (Takes effect Jan. 2013):

$5 Billion: Medicine Cabinet Tax (Took effect Jan. 2011)

$4.5 Billion: Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D (Takes effect Jan. 2013)

$4.5 Billion: Codification of the “economic substance doctrine” (Took effect in 2010):

$2.7 Billion: Tax on Indoor Tanning Services (Took effect July 1, 2010)

$1.4 Billion: HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike (Took effect Jan. 2011)

$0.6 Billion: $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives (Takes effect Jan. 2013):

$0.4 Billion: Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike (Took effect in 2010):


Now lets add $63 per working person to the list.


jeffduncan.house.gov...

So, I have to pay 60 bucks so someone fighting cancer can get insured and get treated?

How preposterous! Can't the person with cancer just have some dignity and die quietly verses have me go without 3 dinners at the olive garden?!!


-sarcasm, I don't give a rats behind about the 60 bucks if it goes for helping one of my fellow countrymen get better...but then again, thats because I have a soul and am a bit of a patriot. I can understand the soulless anti-american's argument here. I understand it..and laugh at it. luckily sociopathic jerks are not the majority

reply to post by SaturnFX


No, you will not, obviously you have not learn a thing about what it means taxes on top of the ones you already have, but is ok, 60 bucks is just part of the big tax hike that is going to hit your wallet very soon.

We told you so, but is not until you get your pay check gouged with taxes that you will know what actually those 60 bucks plus are going to do to you.

BTW those 60 bucks are just another tax on top of the ones that are already been approved under Obamacare and the crocks are not finished yet we us the working class, more are coming.

We told you so.

Just one more attempt by Liberals to thwart Darwinism.
You want to stop the problem of people using the ER for free care?
Take their wallet at the door.
All payments made at the door or you get a band-aid and a boot in the rear.
If you need Insurance and you dont have insurance, i suggest you save a credit card for emergency care or get an education which will get you a job that offers health care.
Sorry but my heart has been hardened over the years by watching people that are more than capable of working just hop from job to job just getting by expecting their welfare checks and entitlements to keep flowing.
Just think how much i could do if i didnt have to have my tax money go to pay for their ignorance.
This country is falling apart because the youth of today have it in their heads that the Govt owes them a life.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
My comment is tangential to the OP, but I am in the process of starting a new company. Because of Obamacare most of the people I hire will either be part-time, independent contractors, or both. Chances are I will be hiring Obama voters for these positions. Oh, the irony.

So they have the option of being part-time and receive healthcare due to Obamacare, or before Obamacare the option was full-time work, but no health benefits?

So you would have given them more hours but no healthcare? The extra couple dollars they earned would not have covered healthcare expenses. I believe most people would rather earn a little less AND have healthcare.

I'm not sure that I'd be a large enough entity to be required to cover employees. The bigger factor is payroll taxes that will be going up. I already own one business and the tax increase will put us out of business unless we restructure our compensation. If you think that the tax increase is not enough to do that, that small retail businesses have larger margins than that, you would be wrong.

I'm trying to start a small manufacturing company, building a product that I designed 3 years ago and decided to bring to market. I want to keep all my manufacturing and sourcing in the US, but it is going to be hard. Keep in mind that if something costs $100 to manufacture here, it will cost $10 to manufacture in China - if not less. Given that disparity of cost, the US Government wants to increase taxes? They are out of their minds.

Start a business and you will become a fiscal conservative libertarian in no time.

reply to post by Deetermined

Health expenditures in the United States neared $2.6 trillion in 2010, over ten times the $256 billion spent in 1980. [1] The rate of growth in recent years has slowed relative to the late 1990s and early 2000s, but is still expected to grow faster than national income over the foreseeable future.[2] Addressing this growing burden continues to be a major policy priority. Furthermore, the United States has been in a recession for much of the past decade, resulting in higher unemployment and lower incomes for many Americans. These conditions have put even more attention on health spending and affordability. [1]

www.kaiseredu.org...

it's early in the morning, and my math is a little fuzzy anyways, but seems to be that those taxes that you have listed is over twice as much as the total cost of healthcare was in 1980!!!! has our healthcare system been improved to be ten times more efficient since the 80's?? what is the justification for it being so much higher that the taxes that we need to pay now, is more than what the total cost was back then???
It's hard for me to even wrap my head around, really!!!