The Atheist Christopher Hitchens...Hitchslaps.

reply to post by adjensen


Watching now...But hasn't Religion bullied people into believing what the Rabbi/priest etc says so?

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

You people keep spewing this nonsense. Why would a god need a nose to breathe with? Eyes to see? A mouth to speak? Arms to reach with? A penis to urinate with? If there were a god He would be without form; if He were eternal He would have to be without substance, so we couldn't be created in his image.

Side Note: I LOVE C. Hitchins. He was so brilliant.

Not only is the universe an image of energy, but energy is information. Leonard Susskind states this in the video below. He is a highly respected physicist from Stanford University and he states clearly that energy is information. We see scientists saying this all over the Internet and on TV these days. They know that we are what can only be described as a hologram. What is a hologram of information? You are viewing it now when you read my words. The wave function of information is rendered (Collapsed) on your screen. My consciousness (Spirit) is expressed in word on your screen. Not only this, but you are reading it in the past. God renders the image to us from the future into the past in the form of prophecy. This means he has written our reality before we (the users) collapse the wave. How can this best be described to our consciousness in the image? I can tell you now that you will soon see a video of Leonard Susskind. Until you reach the end of the post, you have not fully see the story I image into this post. God does the same. He tells us before we get there.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

How does Leonard Susskind describe the same thing? Unless you have a better description than God and Leonard, you have failed to support Hitchens. Hitch was wrong. Leonard is correct in saying that energy is information in movement. It is WORD! Can you deny this? You cannot without ignoring what science and the Bible both say in parallel.

Consult this thread for the reason an image had to be used and why that image needed to be fallen first.

LINK to the reasons for the Image.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by adjensen

 

Watching now...But hasn't Religion bullied people into believing what the Rabbi/priest etc says so?

That's debatable, but unless you think that it justifies Hitchens bullying people to promote his agenda, it's not really relevant, is it?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Not only is the universe an image of energy, but energy is information. Leonard Susskind states this in the video below.

I've seen some of his work. And though I am not trained in his field I still have to go with my gut instincts. And, my gut tells me that energy is NOT information. It is POTENTIAL information. The energy must be manipulated in some way to form information. Just like what you are reading right now on your monitor. These words constitute energy that I have manipulated. Before I wrote them, the energy had no information.

The universe is not an image of energy; it IS energy. But, in order to call the universe a god, someone or some thing would've had to have manipulated it into a god. So, a god would have to have a god that created it, and that god would have to have a god that created it.... The whole premise is pointless.

P.S. I'll watch it again because I just happen to like the man.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by adjensen

 

Watching now...But hasn't Religion bullied people into believing what the Rabbi/priest etc says so?

Am I bullying people? If you watch closely, you will see that truth cuts. The one delivering the message cannot bully unless they go against the message. People often mistake the message delivered (Subject) for the one delivering it (Object). Truth can hurt and cut our pride. This is the nature of how light reveals what it hits. If the light hits something that is revealed to be in error, there are two choices. Either we fix the error or run back to the darkness. Light is not visible. It can only reveal what it hits. This has little to do with the person delivering the message of truth.

Do people taking the name of Christ apart from the character do harm to the message?

Colossians 3:4 (ESV)

4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

1 John 3:2 (ESV)

2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

This is the nature of a fallen man witnessing truth to the fallen. We cannot deliver the message of Christ and say we ourselves are holy. We are not yet holy. This is what our hope is in Christ. All of us can only claim to be thieves at this point. When we bear the cross of Christ, we are the thief on the cross that repents. Of course, the thief that does not repent also bears the cross and its trials. The cross is the involution of the image into matter.

1 Colossians 1: 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

All of us are the one loaf that makes all the slices.

1 Corinthians 10

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Who is being raised? The Son. We are the Son in multiplicity. We return to unity and the light is divided from the darkness. Involution and Evolution.

Gospel of the Nazarenes (Lection 88)

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

It would be impossible for anyone to bully a person into understanding this. You either seek or you ignore. One brings truth and freedom. One brings death and destruction by ignorance.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I quote

It would be impossible for anyone to bully a person into understanding this. You either seek or you ignore. One brings truth and freedom. One brings death and destruction by ignorance.

So threats of destruction and death is not a form of bullying?.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Not only is the universe an image of energy, but energy is information. Leonard Susskind states this in the video below.

I've seen some of his work. And though I am not trained in his field I still have to go with my gut instincts. And, my gut tells me that energy is NOT information. It is POTENTIAL information. The energy must be manipulated in some way to form information. Just like what you are reading right now on your monitor. These words constitute energy that I have manipulated. Before I wrote them, the energy had no information.

The universe is not an image of energy; it IS energy. But, in order to call the universe a god, someone or some thing would've had to have manipulated it into a god. So, a god would have to have a god that created it, and that god would have to have a god that created it.... The whole premise is pointless.

edit on 12/10/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Put your gut intuition to the test. Is an acorn the enfolded oak tree or is the oak tree the future acorn? Your gut would say that Word has nothing to do with the imprint of the form the oak tree takes being enfolded into the acorn as information. In reality, the acorn and the oak tree are forms derived from the information in both. One needs the other and is the autonomous form in the image of what renders it. Your gut logic is saying that information is not the basis of this form. Your logic is saying that the form itself renders itself and defies entropy in information.

A rational explanation notices the source of the information. The information proves itself as self-evident and axiomatic of what we read as a parallel in the Bible. We don't need to just rely on the Bible for this. Science is finally catching up.

If you don't believe me, seek the answer from the show, "Through the Wormhole." I have spliced the section you need. AMAZING VIDEO OF INFORMAION / CONSERVATION OF INFORMATION

This whole video is worth watching because it shows how the universe is ALL information. Black holes are information vortexes. It's is an illusion, just as Buddha said:

Dhammapada Chapter 11

Chaper 11 - Old Age

The world is on fire!
And you are laughing?
You are deep in the dark.
Will you not ask for a light?
For behold your body -
A painted puppet, a toy,
Jointed and sick and full of false imaginings,
A shadow that shifts and fades.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I quote

It would be impossible for anyone to bully a person into understanding this. You either seek or you ignore. One brings truth and freedom. One brings death and destruction by ignorance.

So threats of destruction and death is not a form of bullying?.

If you are referring to God, then he is speaking of a power he possesses. Unless we are seen as holy in the eyes of God, we will be considered darkness to be removed. The ONLY way we can be seen as an image that matches God is if we are included in the image of the Son. When God sees His Son, he sees us by that reflection of perfection. We must rise with the Son and be raised as a Child of God, or we choose a path and do it on our own. This is salvation by works and this path will fail.

John 14:6

New International Version (NIV)

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Why did he say it this way? The Way was derived from Eastern thinking and the eight fold path of righteousness.

Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajñā, Pāli: paññā)
1. Right view 9. Superior right knowledge
2. Right intention 10. Superior right liberation
Ethical conduct (Sanskrit: śīla, Pāli: sīla)
3. Right speech
4. Right action
5. Right livelihood
Concentration (Sanskrit and Pāli: samādhi)
6. Right effort
7. Right mindfulness
8. Right concentration

WIKI

By saying he was the truth, he was showing .the only philosophy of virtue and life that was necessary to fulfill the law is love. All of Plato and Socrates can be summed up by love. They reasoned to the root of truth, which is love for others.

By saying he was life, he was showing that no life can exist apart from being IN the image of the first born.

1 Colossians 1: 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

YES. God is all three. Christ is the Image that is our connecting point to God. God is outside the light, yet is the light. Light is particle and wave, yet has Spirit (Consciousness). Do my words have consciousness? You know they do because we are speaking in real-time in a common language. The computer collapses the wave of my consciousness for anyone who clicks on the right path. The same is true with God. Collapsing wave function is the wave becoming a particle. Consciousness collapses the wave and this is demonstrated by the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. The Observer collapses the wave. God is Father, Son (Word/Wave) and Consciousness (Holy Spirit). This is the TRINITY of the Godhead. We are slices of this loaf.

1 Corinthians 10

14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

The idol is our own self. When we choose to worship the material world or other beings, we deny the elegance and divinity of the whole. Multiplicity must return to unity. Parts can choose not to reach back to Spirit.

Gospel of the Nazarenes (Lection 88)

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

It's a choice.

reply to post by jiggerj

I've seen some of his work. And though I am not trained in his field I still have to go with my gut instincts. And, my gut tells me that energy is NOT information. It is POTENTIAL information. The energy must be manipulated in some way to form information. Just like what you are reading right now on your monitor. These words constitute energy that I have manipulated. Before I wrote them, the energy had no information.

Did you catch what your gut intuition said there? Energy MUST be manipulated in some way. How did evolution collapse the wave function into particle? How did natural selection make decisions that require consciousness unless the one choosing could make value judgments? The Copenhagen interpretation of QM can demonstrate for you that we need an observer in this universe. It is entirely possible that another universe exists where this could have evolved. Not this one. Our own laws keep it from being a reality. This reality points back to the designer. We are information against information entropy. There is no way around this natural law unless something designed us to get around it. This is the final proof that a Creator is necessary. It's the most plausible of all explanations and self-evident. Hitchens was wrong.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

This whole video is worth watching because it shows how the universe is ALL information. Black holes are information vortexes.

Have to stop here, EWR. I can see right away that we're going to get lost in the definition of 'information'. Susskind calls things like photons little bits of information (and he's right), but what we're talking about is how that information came together, how all those tiny bits of information culminated in the creation of a thinking being; a being that you call god. Just like Susskind's black hole and your acorn analogy, we are starting with information that is already manipulated to create these things. This doesn't go back far enough for the sake of our topic, that topic being, how we were created in god's image.

If god has not been deliberately manipulated into being, then he is not a being, and not intelligent. He is just little bits of random information that fills the universe. This non-intelligent being couldn't create anything, because he's not intelligent. So, for us to be created in this image, we would be little bits of information floating about the universe, without form. In order for the universe to take form, then god would have to have form. And in order for god to have form, the information had to have been put together to create him.

And that's as far as I'm going because I don't have the capacity to hold onto this train of thought.

We only know what is true for our universe when it comes to the creation of life and things. A being capable of rising to the point of creating a universe would not be restricted to that universe and its laws. The governor is not necessarily held by the laws it governs. I believe God when he says he has always existed. The program I linked explains this from what we know of quantum mechanics and it is entirely plausible that such a being exists and has always existed.

On topic, there was really no reason for Hitchens to doubt a God existed. Atheists are incorrect by saying they do not believe. It would be better stated that Hitchens disliked God and being confined by higher laws based on higher axioms. If you consider humanity as a whole, we have a tendency to embrace paradox in the lower axioms as we govern ourselves. Our reasoning of existence lacks these higher truths. As we learn those truths, our societies change and we rise. We are charged with the task of seeking and working for our food (Knowledge). See this tread on food sacrificed to idols. Knowledge in vain.

God provides the environment for this to take place and for the Son to be raised on his own in a wilderness. He must overcome to grow up. It's a brilliant process.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

This whole video is worth watching because it shows how the universe is ALL information. Black holes are information vortexes.

Have to stop here, EWR. I can see right away that we're going to get lost in the definition of 'information'. Susskind calls things like photons little bits of information (and he's right), but what we're talking about is how that information came together, how all those tiny bits of information culminated in the creation of a thinking being; a being that you call god. Just like Susskind's black hole and your acorn analogy, we are starting with information that is already manipulated to create these things. This doesn't go back far enough for the sake of our topic, that topic being, how we were created in god's image.

If god has not been deliberately manipulated into being, then he is not a being, and not intelligent. He is just little bits of random information that fills the universe. This non-intelligent being couldn't create anything, because he's not intelligent. So, for us to be created in this image, we would be little bits of information floating about the universe, without form. In order for the universe to take form, then god would have to have form. And in order for god to have form, the information had to have been put together to create him.

And that's as far as I'm going because I don't have the capacity to hold onto this train of thought.

edit on 12/10/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I believe God when he says he has always existed. The program I linked explains this from what we know of quantum mechanics and it is entirely plausible that such a being exists and has always existed.

We almost agree here. Since there can never be a state of absolute nothing, then by default something must have always existed. You call it god with intelligence. I call it energy that has yet to be formed into material substances through natural means.

Your claim of a god can never be substantiated unless He comes out of the closet and declares His existence for all to hear.

My claim of energy transforming from one substance into another through natural means occurs everyday, so even though it has yet to be proven, it is not illogical to assume that the primordial energy transformed itself into the materials we all know and love today. I'm not claiming this as true, just more logical than your theory.

Just thought I would add this interview with him.





RIP dude you will be missed.