I'm a Christian, but think the OT God is a false god

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by windword

 

Perhaps Jesus is the reincarnation of one or all these dead Gods. Or maybe he's there replacement.

Well, considering that the Jews had 70 different names for God....

However other Jewish sources accept that the fact that there are various names of God used in the Hebrew Bible, and that Elohim is a plural word may suggest a polytheistic origin. Thus the ancient Rabbis went to great lengths to try and account for the number of the names of God, by claiming that they account for the various aspects of God.

en.wikipedia.org...

It probably gives a whole new meaning to....

Deuteronomy 6:4

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

I have no idea why I keep misplacing a particular verse, but I know I read somewhere that after Jesus returns and the New Jerusalem is sent down from Heaven, that God and Jesus will sit on the throne together and be known together only as LORD.

I'm going to have to force myself to dig it out.

70 names for one GOD, or, 70 sons of GOD?

Gods and Cities

A fourth theory relates the "sons of God" to the 70 sons of El and Athirat in the Canaanite tradition of Ugarit, from whose marriage with a race of titanesses (the daughters of man), the 70 nations of the earth were born. Each city or people thus had its own divinity, with whom they had a special covenant (i.e. Ba'al Be'rith = Lord of the Covenant).

This marriage of the divinity with the city would seem to have Biblical parallels too with the stories of the link between Melkart and Tyre; Yahweh and Jerusalem; Chemosh and Moab; Tanit and Baal Hammon with Carthage, and may have been celebrated annually after the new year with a hieros gamos or sacred marriage, in which a Qadeshtu (Holy One) took the role of the God's consort, representing the city.

www.sabbathfellowshipofgrantspass.org...

reply to post by windword


It reminds again of what I was saying about the books of Enoch and angels being appointed over each king or ruler. In my research last night, I came across this as well...

The concept of a national god was common in the Ancient Near East during the Late Bronze Age.

Bronze Age

This understanding of divinity was common in the Ancient Near East during the Late Bronze Age. Deities were geographically localized by association to their main cult center, ultimately as tutelaries of their respective city-states. In Egypt, Horus came to be interpreted as the national god, identified with the currently ruling pharaoh. Horus was in competition with Amun, who became the national god of Egypt under the Theban dynasties. The first of the national gods to aspire to universal supremacy was probably Marduk, the national god of Babylon, with the rise of Babylonia from the time of Hammurabi. Marduk's claim was later imitated by Aššur, the national god eponymous of the Assyrian capital, from the 10th century BC.

Iron Age

During the Iron Age, the notion of national gods began to give way to emerging monotheism, by the process of individual national gods beginning to claim universal validity. Smith (2008) interprets this process in terms of a loss of "translatability" between deities, reflecting the essentially monopolar political landscape in the Near East during the Iron Age, the Assyrian Empire linearly succeeded by the Achaemenid Empire and later the Seleucid Empire, a process that also gave rise to the concept of translatio imperii.

In this interpretation, the development of a "one-god" worldview in 7th century BC Judah was a response to the claims to hegemony of the Mesopotamian (Assyrian) "one-god" ideology of the time. Some parts of the Torah which predate the 6th century BC preserve vestiges of the theology centered on a national god during the monarchic period.

In antiquity, each national god was usually also considered the original progenitor of his people, as for example in pre-Islamic Arabia Almaqah was the national god of Saba`, Wadd of Ma`in, Shams of Himyar, etc.[3] Examples from Canaan include Milcom of the Ammonites, Chemosh of Moab, etc.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

God's throne is Jesus. Jesus is both his throne and his temple and they both share the throne. Jesus is the Ark of Testimony. We're made in God's Image, as he has Body Spirit and Soul, so to do we, except our spirits and souls are enthroned in a rotting tomb until we die and gain our new thrones/temples at the resurrection.

That is a brilliant statement. Inspiring. As I stated in this article: LINK

"This life is fleeting. At our essence, we are souls trapped in a decaying corpse, a corpse moving about in time. Will the precious time we have on this earth be lived for our own selfish ends, or will we take each step forward for the betterment of others? Discovering our purpose for this movement in time is then reduced to these two choices and will define who we are when the end finally comes. No matter where we go, there we will be, and until we realize that we can only be where we go, we will only be where we are. "

This was the very first thing I ever wrote concerning truth. It's funny that 5 years later, I figure out just how accurate I was. I have only been this far into your post, but I wanted to reply and say that I loved it so far.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


SONS OF LIGHT.

35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

Now go back and read this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

A Text Belonging to the Instructor

reply to post by Deetermined


And here we are, in 2012, in The United States of America, at least I am, with no national God, but our motto, One Nation Under God. But, which God? Who's God? Yahweh? Allah? Jesus or El Elyon?

reply to post by windword


My guess would be the almighty dollar is the God that particular creed ia refering to...

It even says "in god we trust" on your money...

:shk:

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

SONS OF LIGHT.

35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

Now go back and read this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

A Text Belonging to the Instructor

Yeah i read that a while back, seems pretty kosher. It's possible that DSS of the instructor could be inspired. Not the first time i've heard of the Sons of Light.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

And here we are, in 2012, in The United States of America, at least I am, with no national God, but our motto, One Nation Under God. But, which God? Who's God? Yahweh? Allah? Jesus or El Elyon?

For now, I'm going with this one...

Matthew 28:18-19

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Winword, you have an extensive knowledge of different religious texts and literature, has any other "god" that you know of ever declared that they had power and authority over both heaven and earth? I know that some texts about other "gods" say that they were the god over "the heavens" as they relate to the sky, but has anyone else ever claimed the entirety of the universe?

I know some people in the past have referred to "Enki", but I only have to point out the fact that Enki was mostly worshiped by the Canaanites, Hittites and Hurrians, who's civilizations were mostly wiped out by the God of the Bible. I have to ask myself, which "gods" are still being worshiped and thriving around the world?

You mentioned Allah. Personally, I have a little bit of a problem with a single man (Muhammad) having a vision, that as far as I know, had no other witnesses to that vision. Muhammad didn't perform miracles. Muhammad didn't tell his people that he came to die for them. Muhammad never claimed to be the "Son of God" holding power and authority over the heaven and the earth. We see the destruction that's spreading around the Middle East in the name of "Islam". We see Muslims killing each other every day in Syria, Iraq and now Egypt over who holds the right Muslim view in order to govern over their countries. This doesn't look good for Allah.

reply to post by Deetermined

Winword, you have an extensive knowledge of different religious texts and literature, has any other "god" that you know of ever declared that they had power and authority over both heaven and earth? I know that some texts about other "gods" say that they were the god over "the heavens" as they relate to the sky, but has anyone else ever claimed the entirety of the universe?

There are many "creation myths" from all over the world. But of all them, I like this one the best. It's from the Rig Vedas, that are much older than the Bible.

Rig Veda 10:129.

Who really knows, and who can swear,
How creation came, when or where!
Even gods came after creation’s day,
Who really knows, who can truly say
When and how did creation start?
Did He do it? Or did He not?
Only He, up there, knows, maybe;
Or perhaps, not even He.

I know some people in the past have referred to "Enki", but I only have to point out the fact that Enki was mostly worshiped by the Canaanites, Hittites and Hurrians, who's civilizations were mostly wiped out by the God of the Bible.

Actually, the Enki / Enlil mythology comes from Sumeria, which is where Abraham was from. You many remember that Abraham paid homage to the same god as his high priest, Melchizedek, before going to Egypt. Egyptian mythology mirrors much of the Sumerian myths. In the New Testament, Paul reminds us of the divine lineage of Melchizedek.

Enki and Enlil According to the ancient Sumerian texts, the Sumerian god, Anu, the “supreme Lord of the Sky”, the currently reigning titular head of the Sumerian Family Tree, had two sons. They were Enki (Ea), Lord of the Earth and Waters (whose mother was Antu), and Enlil (Ilu), Lord of the Air and Lord of the Command (whose mother was Ki). These two half-brothers -- surprise, surprise -- did not get along.

According to Sumerian texts (as detailed in Genesis of the Grail Kings [1]), during a visit by their father, Anu (the archetypal absentee landlord), the Anunnaki made a decision:

“The gods had clasped their hands together,

Had cast lots and had divided.

Anu then went up to heaven.

To Enlil the Earth was made subject.

The seas, enclosed as with a loop,

They had given to Enki, the Prince of Earth.”

www.halexandria.org...

I have to ask myself, which "gods" are still being worshiped and thriving around the world?

Hinduism? Buddhism? Yahweh only went after neighbor nations. Do you think that worship feeds God and keeps him alive? Do you think that worship of a God proves it's existence?

You mentioned Allah. Personally, I have a little bit of a problem with a single man (Muhammad) having a vision, that as far as I know, had no other witnesses to that vision. Muhammad didn't perform miracles. Muhammad didn't tell his people that he came to die for them. Muhammad never claimed to be the "Son of God" holding power and authority over the heaven and the earth. We see the destruction that's spreading around the Middle East in the name of "Islam". We see Muslims killing each other every day in Syria, Iraq and now Egypt over who holds the right Muslim view in order to govern over their countries. This doesn't look good for Allah.

Muhammad only claimed to be a prophet. I see no reason to place more credibility over the visions of John in the Book of Revelation above anything that Muhammad said.

Muslims don't claim that Allah is a different than the God of the Old Testament, they believe that he is one in the same God that Jesus talked about.

Originally posted by windword

Enki and Enlil According to the ancient Sumerian texts, the Sumerian god, Anu, the “supreme Lord of the Sky”, the currently reigning titular head of the Sumerian Family Tree, had two sons. They were Enki (Ea), Lord of the Earth and Waters (whose mother was Antu), and Enlil (Ilu), Lord of the Air and Lord of the Command (whose mother was Ki). These two half-brothers -- surprise, surprise -- did not get along.

According to Sumerian texts (as detailed in Genesis of the Grail Kings [1]), during a visit by their father, Anu (the archetypal absentee landlord), the Anunnaki made a decision:

“The gods had clasped their hands together,

Had cast lots and had divided.

Anu then went up to heaven.

To Enlil the Earth was made subject.

The seas, enclosed as with a loop,

They had given to Enki, the Prince of Earth.”

www.halexandria.org...

So, did Anu ever say he was going to return to take back power?

Hinduism? Buddhism? Yahweh only went after neighbor nations. Do you think that worship feeds God and keeps him alive? Do you think that worship of a God proves it's existence?

Frankly, I'm not sure what to think of Hinduism, and it's "It" God. As for Buddism, isn't that more of a philosophy taught by a master teacher that doesn't represent itself to be God?

I think numbers of followers and survival of the religion is an indicator to what the truth might be.

Muhammad only claimed to be a prophet. I see no reason to place more credibility over the visions of John in the Book of Revelation above anything that Muhammad said.

Except John wasn't the only one who had visions, dreams, and other prophets to back up his statements.

Muslims don't claim that Allah is a different than the God of the Old Testament, they believe that he is one in the same God that Jesus talked about.

They also believe that Muhammad was his true messenger setting all of the other prophets straight, including Jesus. Muhammad says that everyone misunderstood Jesus, when Muhammad was the one who misunderstood his teachings most and twisted Jesus' message to create his own religion.

reply to post by Deetermined

So, did Anu ever say he was going to return to take back power?

It's been a long time since I read about the Annunakki, but there are many who believe they will return. Planet X, Nibiru and the winged disk are all associated with Anu.

Frankly, I'm not sure what to think of Hinduism, and it's "It" God. As for Buddism, isn't that more of a philosophy taught by a master teacher that doesn't represent itself to be God?

Buddhism doesn't deal with a God theme, but it deals with the personal journey of the soul. One could say that Buddha was the Jesus of Hinduism. Buddha taught the way to free oneself from the karmic wheel of the Hindu caste system.

Buddha achieved enlightenment when he calmly confronted the deity "Maya," who represented illusion.

They also believe that Muhammad was his true messenger setting all of the other prophets straight, including Jesus. Muhammad says that everyone misunderstood Jesus, when Muhammad was the one who misunderstood his teachings most and twisted Jesus' message to create his own religion.

I'm not a Christian or a Muslim. I think that the teachings of Jesus and the Bible have been corrupted and manipulated by the Church. I really don't know what Muhammad taught.

reply to post by windword

Buddhism doesn't deal with a God theme, but it deals with the personal journey of the soul. One could say that Buddha was the Jesus of Hinduism. Buddha taught the way to free oneself from the karmic wheel of the Hindu caste system.

I think Buddhsim does deal with God, but they just call it Ultimate, or Supreme reality samadhi. It's a state where One is merged with the Supreme reality, therefore there is no This and that, there is Only "That" which one can say, "That" is God.

Hinduism was originally Called Sanatana Dharma and also has philosophies and techniques on how to merge with the supreme reality.

Interestingly, Eastern Orthodoxy, which has the most genuine claims of being closest to the original Jesus teachings and disciples, spend hours a day practicing the Jesus prayer while focused on the heart center. Why the heart center you ask? Inside each human being are channels, nadi's, and the goal is to drop Awareness through one of these Nadi's to enter the heart, where one experience's Union w w/ God of the Christian's, Union w/ the One in Sufism, Merging with the Supreme in Hinduism, the Ultimate reality in Buddhism.

When you look at all of the biggest religions in the world, you'll find that they all have an esoteric core that basically describes teachings/blueprints on how to access God, the Supreme, the Absolute, and that this is basically the only way to detach from the madness of living here and being sucked in here.

For myself, I remember pre-existing as a soul prior to a body,a nd what I did a search on ATS a while back, I found a post where the OP stated that he remembered pre-existing, not wanting to come here, and being forced/pushed into a body against his will which really REALLY makes me wonder what exactly is going on here.

I'm not a Christian or a Muslim. I think that the teachings of Jesus and the Bible have been corrupted and manipulated by the Church. I really don't know what Muhammad taught.

While I could care less about Muhammad and his teaching, I think Christ is still applicable to us today as a teacher of blueprints to reach the Absolute, albeit his teaching are watered down because he was simplifying it for the sheeple. However I think Gospel of Thomas is legit as the teachings of Christ and in there he's saying "If you know yourself, then you shall know God" and other similar Eastern sounding teachings that resemble Buddhism and Nonduality.

I personally consider myself a Christian (Mystic/Nondualist) because I've been hit with a vast array of legit mystical experiences by practicing what Jesus taught and being baptised. However, I've also had vasy experiences from wrestling with Zen Koans and have see the inner subtle channel nadi's in meditation which are discussed in Buddhism & Hindusim so find portions of those philosophies legit as well.

I don't see this all as compartmentalized as people make it as far as religions go. I think right now in the Spiritual realms, Jesus is hanging out Buddha, with various Sufi saints, w/ saints from Hinduism, Taosim, etc etc

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Deetermined

 

So, did Anu ever say he was going to return to take back power?

It's been a long time since I read about the Annunakki, but there are many who believe they will return. Planet X, Nibiru and the winged disk are all associated with Anu.

Frankly, I'm not sure what to think of Hinduism, and it's "It" God. As for Buddism, isn't that more of a philosophy taught by a master teacher that doesn't represent itself to be God?

Buddhism doesn't deal with a God theme, but it deals with the personal journey of the soul. One could say that Buddha was the Jesus of Hinduism. Buddha taught the way to free oneself from the karmic wheel of the Hindu caste system.

Buddha achieved enlightenment when he calmly confronted the deity "Maya," who represented illusion.

They also believe that Muhammad was his true messenger setting all of the other prophets straight, including Jesus. Muhammad says that everyone misunderstood Jesus, when Muhammad was the one who misunderstood his teachings most and twisted Jesus' message to create his own religion.

I'm not a Christian or a Muslim. I think that the teachings of Jesus and the Bible have been corrupted and manipulated by the Church. I really don't know what Muhammad taught.

Well... Buddhism is nontheistic BUT Buddha did not deter his comrades from believing in gods. Yes, Buddha can be referred to as a Jesus of Hinduism because there are many parallels between Buddhism/Hinduism and Christianity/Judaism.

What I do not understand about the Buddha is that how did he achieve enlightenment, which is to be nonattached, when he was so attached to achieving enlightenment? I think the Buddha realized this before his death when he ate the bad mushrooms and pork and told people that it was more important to be a caring, compassionate person.

Muhammad was right in saying that a lot of people misunderstood Jesus, and I do feel empathy for his concerns, but I do not know if he faultless himself. .

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


I think it was Gandhi, or maybe the Dalai Lama, who said something like, holy men need small vices to keep them grounded on firm earth, otherwise they would just float away.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

I think it was Gandhi, or maybe the Dalai Lama, who said something like, holy men need small vices to keep them grounded on firm earth, otherwise they would just float away.

Yes I agree. I've found myself in a similar position from all the Mystical experiences that have happened to me since being a Christian. It's like I'm completely detached from the world, floating, no longer from earth, or a part of earth, most common every day conversations are mostly pure crap about nothing in the grand scheme of things when there are Universes revolving above our heads, with all spare time mostly spent in meditation and reading/studying topics on enlightenment and Truth based philosophies

I've found that I'm becoming much like the Dr. Manhattan character, albeit without the powers.....

reply to post by dominicus


I just found this little video, last night. It's a little off topic for the mystic subjects that are currently being discussed, but I think it highlights the overall intent of your thread theme, of the Old Testament God not being the same God that Jesus taught us about.

Enjoy:

reply to post by windword


The new covenant of the early Christians was an obvious replacement of the Jewish Pharisaic tradition.
Freedom from the law, the "Pharaohs" would not tolerate. The Christian movement was quickly hijacked by Judaizers (Rome) and the former priestly system was restored grafting Christianity onto Yahwism, once again.
All opposition to the newly-established central "Church" was eliminated: populations of true believers massacred and evidence of the earliest bibles destroyed.

"Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting."
(Rom 16:17-18)

"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds." (2Cor 11:13-15)