Let’s Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Argument’s

First part is funny worded, at times we need a little smile.
But again teasing. You are getting really curious, it's showing in the tiny insults.

Well, here's my next "feeding the fish" answer.

So you probably also think the Indian Army top brass for example, is a bunch of incompetent bluffers, who can't make out the difference between an FAE and a real TB ?

Realize that the following texts have a second hidden meaning, to let their adversaries know that they are also researching these weapons from hell, with no fall-out effects, but comparable to the effects of small tactical atomic bombs.
I think you will appreciate the link, since a lot of other highly interesting subjects are also covered, if you are into those :

Thermobaric Warhead :
www.scribd.com...


Piezoelectric Polymer 0-3 Composite for Power Harvesting Application for Armament System.
Piezoelectric ceramic polymer silicon rubbers subject :
www.scribd.com...

Note that they wrote :

Typical detonation velocities of thermobaric explosives are in the order of 3–4 km/s.

Now those are for FAE's...
Real TB's detonation velocities are five times faster, at least.

The term “Thermobaric” is derived from two Greek words – 'Thermos' (means Temperature) and 'Baros' (means Pressure)As the name implies Thermobaric warheads are optimized for combined effect of heat and pressure on the target

Now that's not true. The -baric part implies the pressure of the second, third or next stage's exploding tiny HE charge, that can be dialed / set to a preset value, that will deliver a certain static charge to the first or next stage's cloud when it compresses the bottom piezoelectric layers.

The last 2 lines indicate that they planned to research as long as needed, to get to the real TB's explosive power :

The proposed thermobaric and burster charge compositions are for preliminary study which can be further fine tuned to maximize the warhead performance.

Just ask yourself why they did not name page 111 of their research papers :
FAE Warhead for under-ground targets
instead of
Thermobaric Warhead for under-ground targets

They know very well there's a huge difference. They don't want their homeland to be flooded with Pakistani or Saudis with home made real TB's.

Also, if you can "muffle" cutter charges so well, why is this not being used, say, EVERYWHERE in the demolition industry?

Because they are not very innovative. More conservative, the "what works, do not change" attitude.
For your information, I plan to send an open invoice to all major demolition companies worldwide, with this "steam" idea and its practical work-out as the basis for that invoice. "Steam" can be made from more precursors than water alone... It's also great as a dust catcher drag-net.
The dust after an official demo is much more annoying then the sounds.
Let's see what price tag they will offer me, at return.
I'll leave of course some essential info out, to protect my intellectual property rights. You still seem not to hold the search capabilities to find out who I am.
And what professions I held during my long life.

Plus, you'd need a LOT of fog to be able to muffle a cutter charge.

Well, actually, no. You seem to think that a cutter charge is making a lot of noise.
It isn't, it's more like a crack. And especially when hidden 6 basements deep.
You would not even hear it on street level. Without any muffler blankets or water tanks. And you appear not to be familiar with 1 m3 tanks used all over the world in the chemical and petrochemical industry. They do not leak at all. If they would, nobody would buy them anymore. They are just 1 by 1 by 1 meter big, or small.
And excellent recoil blocks for the otherwise lost circular explosion forces, that now will bounce off them, back to the demo-objective. And at the same time turning a big portion of that water into steam.
I thought you were brighter than this lazy attitude. Search and thou shall find.

My videos of smoke at the base are not the ones you seem to view.
I completely clearly showed you the Siegel video's, and there you see the huge steam clouds rising from the base of the Towers, at least to the first twenty to thirty floors up, at the moment you hear the first low frequency sound through the camera microphone from his camera, standing firmly on that Pier, that itself is standing on numerous poles in the Hudson River on the opposite side of Manhattan, on a tripod.
And that was about 17 to 13 seconds before both Tower collapses started....

And not at 9:46 A.M., when it lasted another 13 MINUTES until the South Tower collapsed at 9:59:04 A.M.... In that time that tire fire was put out with a fire extinguisher. And also the dumpster fire to the right of it, further in the back, in your video.
And in the Siegel video, you see the steam rise up fast from the bottom louvers, from in between the two towers. Later to the left, beginning at 17 seconds before collapse of the South Tower.
And I hope you remember that the lower levels were flooded with water from the broken water mains pipe in the bathtub wall at the Hudson side of it.

I already mentioned to Rick Siegel, that they probably forgot to include in their calculations, that sound travels through water with another speed than through air, and that such a massive bed of fast streaming water that the Hudson River is, results in a low frequency sound traveling through water, and a nearly lost or much fainter sound through air. Which are both from the same event on the other shore.

Which is probably the reason he collected about twice as much explosion sounds than the news camera's on Manhattan Island did. These sounds were doubled and torn apart by that huge amount of water and air above it.
So, your proposed "strike two" is pure bullocks.
As is your "strike three". You're not patient enough and did not observe the right video. But that's caused by your eagerness to "score".
It's not a baseball game.

Bruce, you are probably too juvenile to pay attention to, now. Hello, and goodbye.

reply to post by LaBTop

Now those are for FAE's...
Real TB's detonation velocities are five times faster, at least.

The term “Thermobaric” is derived from two Greek words – 'Thermos' (means Temperature) and 'Baros' (means Pressure)As the name implies Thermobaric warheads are optimized for combined effect of heat and pressure on the target

Now that's not true. The -baric part implies the pressure of the second, third or next stage's exploding tiny HE charge, that can be dialed / set to a preset value, that will deliver a certain static charge to the first or next stage's cloud when it compresses the bottom piezoelectric layers.

LaBTop, can you please, please please stop making up things? It is really not good to just make up things and expect us to believe it because you said so. This is a delusion you are creating. "Thermo" is the heat and "baros" is implied with the overpressure of the blast. THAT is the killer! Not some code word for a tiny HE charge. Where the hell do you come with this stuff? How can you twist it so bad?

Thermobaric explosives (also known as fuel-air explosives) were originally invented by the US military during the Vietnam War. Whereas conventional explosives kill and destroy through direct explosive force and fragmentation, thermobarics also create a large amount of shock wave pressure and heat, and consume all of the oxygen in the area of the explosion.

demilitarizemcgill.wordpress.com...

Yeah. Thermobaric. HEAT and PRESSURE. You really overplayed your hand. Now you lost big.

My videos of smoke at the base are not the ones you seem to view.
I completely clearly showed you the Siegel video's, and there you see the huge steam clouds rising from the base of the Towers, at least to the first twenty to thirty floors up, at the moment you hear the first low frequency sound through the camera microphone from his camera, standing firmly on that Pier, that itself is standing on numerous poles in the Hudson River on the opposite side of Manhattan, on a tripod.

And yet not one camera positioned next to the WTC or one single eyewitness caught or mentions these steam clouds coming form the base of the WTC. Simply amazing. People miles away can supposedly see things that people standing right in the middle of it completely miss it? People in the lobbies didnt see any steam. No steam burns. No one at the base or in the lobbies ever saw clouds of steam. WHy are you creating this alternate narrative that has NO basis on fact?

Also, your explosions are described here:

Reread this post :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You want the blueprints posted online? You want the blueprints for constructing an Hydrogen bomb? Sarin gas?
I can give them, but you do not seriously expect that, I hope?
You're fishing too much, and you attract too much attention with that.

Go and take a normal gas lighter apart. Take the piezoelectric push-part out. The one under the push-down knob.

Push it firmly with one hands bare thumb, while you hold it tight in between the bare fingers of your other hand.

And that's only a very small and very simple piezoelectric crystal device.

reply to post by GenRadek


Your "triumphant" link leads to a very compressed very superficial small piece of text, where this guy solely talks about FAE's.
And thinks that FAE = TB, just as you are acting as if you believe that.
I now suppose you have read all my thermobaric posts, and if you did, you should know by now that a TB is definitely not an FAE, there's 24 years of development between them.
This is all the man had to say, very minimal, and you suddenly act as if you have "defeated" me with such a clownesque simplistic link.
You have a LOT to learn and understand :

SIMPLISTIC TEXT : Thermobaric explosives (also known as fuel-air explosives) were originally invented by the US military during the Vietnam War. Whereas conventional explosives kill and destroy through direct explosive force and fragmentation, thermobarics also create a large amount of shock wave pressure and heat, and consume all of the oxygen in the area of the explosion. For the US military in Vietnam, as well as the Russian military in Afghanistan and Chechnya, these effects made thermobaric explosives effective for destroying buildings, and for killing people in tunnels and other enclosed spaces. As explained in a report by Human Rights Watch, “FAEs [fuel-air explosives] are more powerful than conventional high-explosive munitions of comparable size, are more likely to kill and injure people in bunkers, shelters, and caves, and kill and injure in a particularly brutal manner over a wide area.“

"" Also known as fuel-air explosives "". A real stupid remark. Vietnam era = FAE's.
TB's were not invented yet.
"" Whereas conventional explosives kill and destroy through direct explosive force and fragmentation, thermobarics also create a large amount of shock wave pressure and heat, and consume all of the oxygen in the area of the explosion. ""
Well, that about proves he doesn't know at all where he talks about. What exactly is the difference he comes up with, between ''direct explosive force '' and "shock wave pressure " ? The only part he got right in that text is the oxygen consumption. He's clearly talking "Popular Mechanics slang".
This he got right :
"" these effects made thermobaric explosives effective for destroying buildings "".
Since a well calculated TB will nearly instantly "pump up" a whole WTC floor and will tear beams off from their seats and break most bolds holding them on those seats, and then quickly dissipate that pressure outside the blown out windows. That pressure has been bouncing around over the whole floor space several times, before it bleeds off to the outside air. We talk about milliseconds here, f.y.i.
That sudden overpressure bleeds off outside the blown-out windows, just as you can see in the -Bonez- video, and the other videos I posted by now in this thread and these two other threads I mentioned before.
The rings of blown out smoke clouds that burst out of all the windows around the WTC Towers after collapse initiation.

REFERENCES :

1. kamran1919.wordpress.com...

They describe the effect of an FAE, not a real TB.

Thermobaric, or fuel-air energy (FAE), explosives work in two stages. The shell, or container, is burst open to spread the combustion agent as a fine aerosol, then this is ignited, creating an over-pressure blast wave traveling at 3000 meters per second, and burning all available oxygen in the process.

The Global Security website describes the effect of a thermobaric bomb:

Those near the ignition point are obliterated. Those at the fringe are likely to suffer many internal, and thus invisible injuries, including burst eardrums and crushed inner ear organs, severe concussions, ruptured lungs and internal organs, and possibly blindness. The destruction, death and injury are caused by the blast wave.

Enhanced performance is achieved by adding excess metals to the explosive composition, aluminum and magnesium being the metals of choice.

A report on the Defense Technology website says that, instead of shrapnel/fragment injuries, a thermobaric device produces blast effects. “Each tissue type, when interacting with the blast wave, is compressed, stretched, sheared or disintegrated by overload according to its material properties. Internal organs that contain air (sinuses, ears, lungs and intestines) are particularly vulnerable to blast.”

2. www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch :

Hybrid Energetic Materials System,FA8651-10-M-0264,DOD,OSD,SBIR,2010,1,99250.00,Gunger Engineering LLC,207 Crystal Ct.,,Niceville,FL,32578,No,No,No,Michael Gunger,President,8508656137,[email protected],Michael Gunger,President,8508656137,[email protected],"Nano-energetics / hybrid energetic systems have been under development for decades with only one weapon system explicitley incorporating these materials, the Thermobaric Hellfire warhead, with a solid FAE surround. There have been other implementations but these are primarily in the areas of warhead defeat, such as occurs during EOD operations. Hybrid Energetic systems offer significantly more energy on target and more control over the delivery rate. They also potentially offer Insensitive Munitions advantages. In general, for a material to be weaponized, it must be evaluated under standard JMEM procedures and be shown to be advantageous to the warfighter. In addition, it must be predictable in response, if must be capable of being modeled and it must meet shelf life/storage requirements. This proposal seeks to address the weaponization requirements and develop,ultimately, a weapon/weaponization approach, using a hybrid energetic system, which will demonstrate not only the applicability of the materials to the battlespace but will also develop a methodology for similar systems in the future."

Insensitive Munitions are not, or less vulnerable to self destruction in storage or during transport.
Ask yourself why I bolded those two lines of text. Concentrate on the words
more energy on target (not 3-4000 m/s but 22,000 m/s)
more control over the delivery rate (dial the potential static cloud charge up or down with a knob that controlls the explosive force and thus pressure on the bottom piezoelectric thin film)
hybrid energetic system (relatively small HE explosives mixed with electrical, static charges).
And this is an Official Website of the United States Government, and a DoD affiliated site too. They never try to be explicit, on the contrary, as mysterious as possible :
www.sbir.gov...

New Energetic Solid Propellant Ingredients,N68335-11-C-0197,DOD,NAVY,STTR,2011,2,499763.00,"MACH I, INC.",340 East Church Road,,King of Prussia,PA,19406-,No,No,No,Bernie Kosowski,Principal Inv,(610) 279-2340,[email protected],Bernie Kosowski,,(610) 279-2340,[email protected],"MACH I Inc. propose to extend the technology developed under a previous Phase II STTR. This new technology will transition the demonstrated performance advantages to a commercial system, the Joint Multiple Effects Warhead System (JMEWS) warhead for integration into a Block IV Tomahawk warhead system. Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) is prepared to develop and commercialize the proposed technology in a Tomahawk weapon system. MACH I will be the prime small business contractor under the proposed STTR. Sandia National Lab will be the STTR partner. NAMMO Talley will evaluate thermobaric formulations. Boron has great potential as an energetic component in munitions and propellants with the highest energy density (59 kilojoules/gram) of all practical metal fuels. It is difficult to realize this potential due to ignition and combustion issues. The ignition temperature is 2000 K and a molten oxide surface layer forms inhibiting combustion rate and combustion completion. In the prior work, ignition temperature was reduced to 1000 K, combustion rate increased by 46%, while maintaining 97% of boron's delivered energy. Compared to aluminum in a standard thermobaric formulation, Magnesium 1 part and Boron 9 parts gave a 21% increase in thermal output and an 18% increase in pressure impulse, with no increase in munition sensitivity."

New Thermobaric Effects for Lethality Enhancement,W91260-09-C-0004,DOD,ARMY,SBIR,2009,2,730000.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Evelyn Downs,Contracts Manager,2157238588,[email protected],Peter Zavitsanos,President,2157238588,[email protected],The proposed effort addresses new concepts in terms of exploiting the thermobaric effect (increase of temperature and pressure ) using variations of reactive materials which maximize energy release and gaseous by-products during impacts of low velocity

New Thermobaric Materials and Weapon Concepts,HDTRA1-06-P-0089,DOD,DTRA,SBIR,2006,1,100000.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Peter D. Zavitsanos,President,2157238588,[email protected],Anthony Rozanski,Principal Investigator,2157238588,[email protected],"Improvements in configuration of potential thermobaric warheads are presented. Such improvements in configuration will allow faster mixing rates, resulting in a reduction in total reaction time. Higher reaction rates, and lower reaction times lead to more complete reaction of thermobaric fuels, which will cause thermobaric weapons to better engage enclosed targets and cause more extensive damage than current configurations. Early work by these investigators suggests that a fraction of highly energetic thermobaric fuel can be ignited by an explosive shock and release its energy in a time period consistent with conditions required for increased peak pressure and impulse. The exploitation of this finding in terms of enhancing the reaction rates (both intrinsic and air combustion) through improved mixing techniques is the main objective of this program. Two approaches will be examined. The first approach will consist of a star shaped explosive core which will produce explosive jets, to enhance the mixing effect. The second approach will utilize alternating sections of reactive materials, one of lower density and one of higher density. The density mismatch will set up velocity gradients, resulting in a turbulent mixing of both reactive material components, as well as trapping the available air within the reaction zone."

New Thermobarics,HDTRA1-05-P-0023,DOD,DTRA,SBIR,2005,1,99998.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Peter D. Zavitsanos,President,2157238588,[email protected],Anthony Rozanski,Principal Investigator,2157238588,[email protected],"Improvements and refinements in formulation and configuration of current thermobarics are presented. Improvements in formulation allow for faster reaction rates and more complete reaction, releasing a greater percentage of available energy at early times and close to the HE detonation step. Furthermore, improvements in configuration will allow faster mixing rates, resulting in a reduction in total reaction time. Higher reaction rates, and lower reaction times lead to more complete reaction of the thermobaric fuels, which will cause thermobaric weapons to better engage enclosed targets and cause more extensive damage than current formulations and configurations. The proposed effort is based on the most exothermic solid fuels and combinations derived from thermochemical considerations as well as an extensive amount of experimental data and practical knowledge. Early work by these investigators suggests that a fraction of highly energetic thermobaric fuel can be ignited by an explosive shock and release its energy in a time period consistent with conditions required for increased peak pressure and impulse. The exploitation of this finding in terms of enhancing the reaction rates (both intrinsic and air combustion) is the main objective of this program."

Multipurpose Reactive Materials,W911QX-05-C-0028,DOD,ARMY,SBIR,2005,1,119995.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Peter D. Zavitsanos,President,2157238588,[email protected],Anthony Rozanski,Principal Investigator,2157238588,[email protected],"Next generation energy rich materials are under development for both military and civilian uses. These materials are non-explosive (they do not detonate) and are generally referred to as ""Reactive Materials"". Reactive materials are being developed in conjunction with, or independent of, classical explosives; reactive materials serve as blast enhancers for thermobaric explosives, reactive fragments cause enhanced lethality damage to missiles and enclosed systems when compared to inert kinetic energy penetrators, produce high temperature, structurally conforming fireballs for the defeat of biological and chemical agents, allow the destruction of land mines without causing damaging detonation, produce reactive shape charge liners for defeat of concrete and armor targets, as well as providing ""stealth"" defeat of electronic equipment and other applications, currently under development, to benefit both defense and research. General Sciences with guidance from the U.S. Army will develop technology and applications, specifically suited to low velocity, close to the ground encounters and targets of interest to the U.S. Army. Several tasks are proposed in order to demonstrate the suitability of GSI technology in meeting the needs of the Army for new reactive materials and warhead concepts and to develop a test plan to transition into larger scale tests in a second phase."

Practical Ionospheric Enhancement Technology,FA8718-05-C-0037,DOD,USAF,SBIR,2005,1,99992.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Evelyn C. Downs,Contracts Manager,2157238588,[email protected],Peter D. Zavitsanos,Principal Investigator,2157238588,[email protected],"The main objective of the proposed program is to develop highly exothermic compositions capable of generating temperatures up to 4,000 K in order to achieve significant vaporization of certain metals, with boiling points in excess of 3,000 K, which are capable of generating ionization in the presence of atomic oxygen. Laboratory studies are proposed to show proof-of-concept and derive vaporization yields for at least two such metals. Part of the laboratory study will include metal atom emission measurements, and canister design for 500g releases as well as potential atmospheric releases in the 10 kg size."

Multipurpose Reactive Materials,W911QX-06-C-0033,DOD,ARMY,SBIR,2005,2,646882.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Peter D. Zavitsanos,President,2157238588,[email protected],Anthony Rozanski,"Manager, Energetic Materi",2157238588,[email protected],"General Sciences, Inc. (GSI) will demonstrate the benefits of reactive material technology to the US Army and will demonstrate the potential methods of incorporation of reactive materials into current and next generation Army munitions systems, including the SCORPION projectile, Multiple Threat Objective Projectile (MTOP), enhanced thermobaric explosives and devices, Electromagnetic Gun capabilities, Scalable Effects warheads and other areas of interest. GSI has developed a casting method to incorporate suitable reactive materials within a support matrix, creating strong, reactive structures that can replace inert mass non-parasitically and lead to an increase in lethality. GSI formulations have been incorporated into thermobaric devices, agent defeat warheads, reactive fragments, reactive projectiles, anti-land mine systems, shaped charge liners, and several other areas of interest to the DoD. GSI will supply devices and technical knowledge to the Army Research Laboratory (ARL) to increase the database of reactive materials and provide the US Army with next generation munitions payloads capable of enhanced lethality effects."

Non-Energetic Payload Technologies,HDTRA1-05-P-0112,DOD,DTRA,SBIR,2005,1,99999.00,"GENERAL SCIENCES, INC.",205 Schoolhouse Road,,Souderton,PA,18964 2416,No,No,No,Peter D. Zavitsanos,President,2157238588,[email protected],Anthony Rozanski,Principal Investigator,2157238588,[email protected],"To address the needs of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA), GSI will perform in three areas during the course of this effort. 1) GSI will evaluate a new formulation, capable of self-propagating reaction with the production of an electrically conductive aerosol, for the purpose of Intrusive Electronic Equipment Defeat. This material will be evaluated against electronic equipment (PC's) and also against dispersed Biological Agent simulants (Bt and Bg). GSI has the capability to evaluate performance against electronic targets and biological agent simulants in-house. 2) GSI will fabricate a non-hydrocarbon Black Smoke Generator (BSG) using an existing GSI formulation. The BSG will be demonstrated for DTRA at the GSI site. GSI will provide an additional device to DTRA for further demonstrations at an off-site location. 3) GSI will fabricate and demonstrate a High Temperature FireStart Device (HTFSD). GSI will show the effectiveness of this device in raising room temperature to the flashover point. GSI will utilize existing formulations for this task. General Sciences, Incorporated (GSI) has developed a formulation, which produces an electrically shunting, corrosive material from a thermally activated source, for use within a tunnel environment. This material is generated from a thermal decomposition of a material, travels as a fine mist in existing air currents as well as due to the slight overpressure developed during the reaction and then settles out on available surfaces. This residue is electrically conductive and corrosive, causing immediate failures of computers and other sensitive electronics, as well as delayed failure of ""harder"" targets, such as generators. GSI has also developed concepts involving enhanced obscurants and high temperature thermal sources, which can be used as thermal accelerants; these concepts are better suited to smaller volumes or stealth applications. The proposed effort will build on progress to date to better address threats of interest to DTRA."

3. Gauder, T. and C. Cutshaw, ed. 2000. Jane’s Ammunition Handbook 2000-2001. 9th ed., Alexander, VA: Jane’s Information Group.

4. Thomas E. McGill, Toney K. Cumins, Nicholas R. Boone, Michael J. Roth, Thomas R. Slawson, Bartley P. Durst, and Pamela G. Kinnebrew, Investigation into the Effectiveness of Airblast Initiation of Point-Detonating Mortar Fuzes, U. S. Army Engineer Research and Development Center, Vicksburg, MS 2010.

5. Department of the Army, Fundamentals of Protective Design of Conventional Weapons, Technical Manual 5-855-1, 1986.

6. Gemini user manual, release 4.30, U.S. Naval Surface Warfare Center, Indian Head, MD, 2005.

7. www.dodsbir.net...

BH TECHNOLOGY, LLC
1 Jodi Court, Suite 613
Wesley Hills, NY 10952
Phone: (845) 362-3316
PI: Dr. Aron Kain
Army 03-141 Awarded: 18 DEC 03
Title: Thermobaric Blast Pressure Gouges.
Abstract: BH Technology proposes a novel development of a thermobaric blast pressure transducer. The pressure transducer uses a combination of selected materials, novel electronic detection techniques, and pressure sensing devices.

reply to post by LaBTop


Since when does a "barometric device" mean a piezoelectric part? Oh boy LaBTop, I think you are thoroughly confused. Or making crap up.

A piezoelectric part creates a spark when a piezo crystal is struck, usually a quartz crystal struck by a metal piece. I do not see anywhere where anything is referred to "barometric" in regards to piezoelectric equipment. Can you provide some actual fact based literature where this "piezoelectric device" is referred to as a "barometric device"? It seems you are just making things up. How convenient you cannot give me any actual proof, other than you saying so.

However, I do know that a piezoelectric device is used in an RPG warhead. It is used to detonate on impact with its target. However, I have never heard of it being referred to as a "barometric" device.

reply to post by GenRadek


Forgot the Rick Siegel "debunk effort" video you added.

What I have understood of Rick is that he sold the public rights of his video filmed all day long from that Hudson Pier, to the Blue Media Group, and that lady was part of that deal.
Later he understood that they made quite a lot more income from it than he had generated by selling his rights to them.
This he did not appreciated and started to act against them.
He could not very well coop with the increase in selling potential this group had created. He however had sold his rights and I believe he tried to get more but was of course turned down by the magistrates. He forgot he lived in the land of greed. His greed was initially smaller than their greed. He underestimated the added value of Physics by these people.

My opinion is, that they all should have made that information freely available for all. They made lots of it available on line in many short pieces in the early days, but later sold DVD's with much better quality. But that's because YouTube had / has much less quality online in their video material, since they opt for quantity and let thus loose on their quality.
VIMEO understood that problem and jumped in to fill the gap in the video market for HD-quality video's.

The Physic in Rick Siegel's video's is still the same, and did not change by their quarrels. What's your point.

reply to post by GenRadek


It took you 5 minutes to write that answer and then post it.
YOU DO NOT EVEN READ MY POSTS fully.
I have already several times in this and the other threads explained where the term thermobaric comes from.
Thermo is excessive heat, which they are pumping up more and more, in 1998 already to 4000 degrees Kelvin, now even higher. These things from hell melt massive iron tank turrets at impact !
And you ask yourself how they melted WTC columns?

The -baric part comes from the pressure wave of the first stage its small RDX-charge exploding in the center of the packed cannister, which wave inflicts so much pressure on the bottom piezoelectric thin film, that that film expels a huge peak of static electricity, which is led into the yet to be exploded cloud of former explosive formulations solids by means of a thin copper line that gets unrolled from its roll attached to the bottom part of the cannister by the upper part of the cannister that is shot upwards by the explosion of the first small RDX charge.
I have more or less explained this already many times in all my thermobaric posts, thus it is again proved that you only read what you want to read, or can't understand the physics of the explanation.
Opposite or same electric charges have the effect that they ultimately mix all explosive and non-explosive parts of the formulations used, which are as finely dustified as can be (nano particles) to begin with, and then that static charge instantly let all particles involved attract or repel each other, thus forming instantly that finely mixed cloud they are after, and boosting that way the pressure wave power to 4 to 5 times better destructive power at ignition than high explosives, and by consuming also all the oxygen trapped in the cloud, expanding the duration of that pressure wave.
And that's why TB's are so extremely well designed to blow up buildings, they "instantly pump them up", literally, just as you can see in the WTC videos, at the moment of failure of their top parts.

All explosives inflict damage by pressure, so why should all these now grinning at you, military researchers want to ad that commonly known meaning to a totally new device in 1989 ?
Again, they are not allowed to post intrinsic details on the Internet, and you know very well why.

reply to post by LaBTop

YOU DO NOT EVEN READ MY POSTS fully.

It might be the length of your posts. You seem to throw everything including the kitchen sink into one of your posts.

Personally I won't devote that much time to one post. Especially if I feel the poster is touching on multiple topics.
I feel that if the poster cannot stay focused on one topic that means they have no real evidence to support their point. Hense the reason they throw other things into the mix.

But this is just me and my way of thinking.

reply to post by samkent

I feel that if the poster can not stay focused on one topic that means they have no real evidence to support their point. Hence the reason they throw other things into the mix.

These "other things" are widely known as ADDITIONAL evidence, only not in boob tube couch-sitter circles.
Which circles must cover about 50 % of the American populace, if we may believe the outcomes of the last row of elections. Which we don't, since we know by now, that EVERYTHING in Amerika is MANIPULATED.
You effectively live in the new third Reich for many decades now, without even realizing it, nor thinking about it.
A totally militarized society, based on ever growing greed, and trying to implant that system all over the world, by installing ever more huge US military bases in every country of even the slightest financial interest. And on every tactically interesting island in every ocean.
Do you really think your REAL leaders have your and your neighbors interest at front row?
And I don't mean those groomed to-be presidents you get shoveled through your throats every four years.
The only thing you can be sure of, is that THEY will continue to use every manipulative technique in their arsenal to let you believe exactly THAT.

But this is just me and my way of thinking.

Over time we got used to your way of thinking, don't worry, we understand you completely.
Not one of your posts has any evidential substance, you are just trying to be part of the flow.

For once, try to rebut just one of my numbered EVIDENCES. Or all my posts on page 4....
Then we can try to make fun of EACH OTHER, instead of you trying to make fun of me. Which is getting a tad bit pathetic over time by now. And you're holding a quite lonely position.

Does none of the few left over "debunkers" at this forum ever realize, why there is no serious rebuttal to all this evidence by people who we all can tell, that they at least had a serious education?
Educated persons know very well that there is no counter argument that does not get laughed away, to this ever growing heap of hard 9/11 false flag evidence.

Originally posted by LaBTop
Does none of the few left over "debunkers" at this forum ever realize, why there is no serious rebuttal to all this

It is just crap that has been debunked before here, you just ignore the debunking and post more crap.

For example you said "I have more or less explained this already many times in all my thermobaric posts"

Except you know nothing about thermobaric bombs, you do not even understand what the name means, also your description using the "piezo electric" effect shows you just take buzz words and misuse them, without understanding them.

It's highly advisable for all non-believers of the official 9/11 Commission Report and the NIST Reports' investigations into the events on 9/11/2001,
and also very beneficial for this ATS 9/11 Forum its internal PEACE,
to counter any further threads- and posts disturbances, by well known disturbers who never answer 9/11-Conspiracies evidence-loaded posts by LINKING THIS POST as a STANDARD ANSWER to these "simple- or one liner" posts disturbers :

LaBTop : WTC destruction, the Leftover candidates, Pro&Contra Arguments.
ANSWER THIS HUGE POST BEFORE POSTING ANY FURTHER THREAD-DISTURBING UNSUBSTANTIATED POSTS.

Remind them also of all posts by me in these threads :

Three threads of recent interest (this thread, and these two) where I felt the need to post a few details that in fact also fall under the umbrella of this thread its own title, are also a partly repository for what follows a bit further down :

Lets Agree to Put an End to the Petty 9/11 Arguments
www.abovetopsecret.com...

and

2011 Toronto 9/11 Hearings.(Full Length Video)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by LaBTop
Does none of the few left over "debunkers" at this forum ever realize, why there is no serious rebuttal to all this

It is just crap that has been debunked before here, you just ignore the debunking and post more crap.

edit on 23-1-2013 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)

Be a truly great hero, and post links to those debunking posts, then I can make crap of it.

reply to post by LaBTop

Be a truly great hero, and post links to those debunking posts, then I can make crap of it.

Labtop: Without your posts it seems that the 911 section can goes for days with zero activity. You are among a handfull of 911 conspiracy believers left in the world.

The simple fact is that you don't have any real facts to back up your theories.
You speculate based on other peoples web postings.
You cannot prove the factuality of the evidence from any of these websites. And that's the fatal flaw in all the other believers foundation.

They refuse to accept any MSM reports of what happened.
But then believe random websites from people/groups with no foundation of crediabliity.
In fact these websites sole reason to exist is based on perpetuating the 911 conspiracy.

One day you will realize that the worlds governments have a lot more and better things to do than cover up conspiracy after conspiracy after conspiracy. Especially when they were not in positions of power at the time of said conspiracies.

And finally why can't the head of the US CIA get a little on the side without being found out? It was a secret between two people. Unlike the thousands of people in layer after layer covering conspiracy after conspiracy. who somehow remain silent dacade after decade.

reply to post by samkent


I don't mind anymore whatever "clever" excuse you guys come up with the next time, let's cut some slack here and now.
Let's keep it very simple and start with :

Debunk case nr 1 in this huge 911-Evidence post.

I give you some slack with that, since case nr 2 is my specialty, so with that one you stand no chance at all.
Nr 1 also not, but, let's be on the optimistic side for you, it is evidence from David Chandler.
I do understand it totally, so bring your famous debunk on the table, right now.
No petty excuses anymore.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by LaBTop
Does none of the few left over "debunkers" at this forum ever realize, why there is no serious rebuttal to all this

It is just crap that has been debunked before here, you just ignore the debunking and post more crap.

For example you said "I have more or less explained this already many times in all my thermobaric posts"

Except you know nothing about thermobaric bombs, you do not even understand what the name means, also your description using the "piezo electric" effect shows you just take buzz words and misuse them, without understanding them.

edit on 23-1-2013 by hellobruce because: (no reason given)

Well well, another sudden professional turning up.

You edited your post by the way, after my posting. No problem.

You really have not the slightest idea about the quintessence of what I posted in that above post. And in other posts.
You do not even understand why the US and other countries' military use a distinct separation between an FAE and a TB. They even write it in that post, but you seem to miss all clear pointers.

I have a proposal for you. Get in contact with one of the Sandia Laboratories researchers and ask him/her about the difference. You could also ask me, but you seem to mistrust me.
You also missed my link to the Indian Army pages, with the piezoelectric link, so to see.

reply to post by LaBTop

Debunk case nr 1 in this huge 911-Evidence post.

See! This is what I meant.
You run on and on and on and on about topic after topic of which you have NO CERTIFIED EXPERTISE to make conclusions about.
Thousand word postings with lots of charts and YT links does not mean you can or have proven anything. In my experience those who do know and have experience use very few words to get their point across.

If a first year law student could get you on the stand he would be able to prove to a jury that 'you don;t know what you are talking about'. Simply because you have no degree in the revelant areas.

You might as well give me someones medical charts and I'll make a diagnosis on their heath simply because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

reply to post by LaBTop


And again you have shown how you like to make things up. For the umpteenth time:
Thermobaric: Thermo-: means heat. -baric: means pressure.

A thermobaric device is in direct reference to the HEAT and PRESSURE of the explosion of the device. It has nothing, NOTHING, NOTHING to do about any "second stage piezoelectric device" which is set off by an RDX charge. You are simply pulling this out of thin air (to put it nicely).

What you are constantly describing is a FAE. No matter how much you spin it, that is what you are claiming. An FAE was used to destroy the WTC. A derivative of a thermobaric device.

This is a true Thermobaric Explosive:
Thermobaric Explosive

The BLU-118/B is a penetrating warhead filled with an advanced thermobaric explosive that, when detonated, generates higher sustained blast pressures in confined spaces such as tunnels and underground facilities.

As you can see, the blast pressure is what gives it the "BARIC" part of "THERMOBARIC".

I cannot find any, ANY real mention of the contraption you describe in any literature anywhere. Not in my military munitions books, not online, not even a patent or anything. Just your say so. Now if this is so top secret, then why are they letting you run around exposing this? Unless you are just being a "dis-info" agent.

Now if you are parroting Riconosciuto's nonsense, it would be a good idea to delve into his shady past and his reliability as a source (which is non-existent). Oh yes and Ted Gunderson too.

I have read your posts. And it all hinges on the word of a very shady character with one vivid imagination. This is your source? And somehow this technology was magically used in the WTC destruction? Secret technology that has little backing or real source other than a mentally unstable meth supplying attention whore? V - E - R - Y reliable.

reply to post by samkent


We call that what you constantly practice, "making wind".

When ever you will assemble enough bravery, just offer your rebuts, and I will pile-drive them into the ground.
Teasing doesn't affect people like me, we know what we are capable of, and have proved it numerous times.
You haven't proved a single thing, ever.

Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by samkent

 

We call that what you constantly practice, "making wind".

And we call what you constantly practice, "fantasy".

If you have such a strong case, please make your argument in 100 words, and provide some links with evidence for that argument (evidence does not equal other lengthy posts nor youtube videos).

Your argument "I hear low sounds on a youtube video so there must have been explosives" has already completely been debunked by the way, eventhough you probably don't realize that.

reply to post by GenRadek


"As you can see, the blast pressure is what gives it the "BARIC" part of "THERMOBARIC". "

Aahh, now I understand, oh great Guru.
And that's why they will call it from now on, now they have been enlightened by your supreme explanation, High Barics, instead of High Explosives (HE).
And Fuel Air Barics, instead of Fuel Air Explosives (FAE).

God, man, do you understand at all how far from reality you dwindle? It's called a Thermobaric Explosive, and not a Thermobaric Baric.
I gave you a plethora of information from the mouth of the inventors and research institutes itself, and you even can't grasp what they are saying there, and exactly meaning with it.

Your pointer should have been the fact that the DoD used two distinctly different descriptions when they described how one of their devices, a Hellfire, works.

the Thermobaric Hellfire warhead, with a solid FAE surround.

Do you have any clue what they meant with the term "solid" coupled to the abbreviation FAE...?

Ever seen a Barometer Glass filled with mercury (a mercurial barometer), and its modern, compact little brother, the round shaped barometer box?
Can you imagine what they constructed the first year of their research from such a barometer box coupled with a piezoelectric crystals device?
Now, that's the true meaning of the -baric part of a Thermobaric Bomb. (TB)

You can "dial in" the static charge coming from the tightly packed crystals, by setting/turning with your fingers, a little screw/bolt with a knob on it, which controls the tension of the lid of that barometer box. Then when the small RDX second stage charge goes off, the pressure wave of that tiny explosion which force can be exactly calculated, dents that lid in/down to the pre-set distance, thus you can change in that manner the ultimate pressure wave of the resulting explosion by introducing a lesser or more intense static charge in the expanding nano powder cloud.

Nowadays they use piezoelectric thin films, made by vaporizing their piezoelectric crystals and let them condensate back again on special rubber or silicon formulations, which thin film can be controlled by small electronic circuits with pressure sensitive transducers.

If they want to construct a shaped charge semi-solid TB, it's just a manner of shaping the cannister's form (discus, ring, donut, square box, etc), and shaping its pre-cut divider incision(s), and the form of the RDX charges. Or choose between an inert cannister wall, or a formulation for it that also will explode in the various staged processes. And use that for enhancing one of the stages. And use an inert inner or outer stage made from copper, mercury, depleted uranium or other heavy metals that will be ionized to a white hot plasma by the extreme temperatures from one of the TB stages. Just as in a HE cutter charge. The great advantage of a TB cutter charge above an archaic HE cutter charge is the possibility to camouflage and paint its form in any possible shape, and for example just hang it around a steel column as some sort of room enhancing thingy, or as part of a column's cover board, a desk top lamp, a set of signs, a round or straight TL lamp, a framework, whatever you can imagine.