Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

reply to post by stanislav


I support gun laws. I just don't go postal at the drop of the hat.

Or are you just going to spam comments to cover whatever I said?

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


I am not upset, why do you keep saying that?

I was addressing the insult posted towards me. Why not ask that guy why he felt the need to insult people on a public forum...?

It is not exactly fair and balanced if you direct the spot light onto me only just because you agree with the other guy or something.

If you support gun laws but don't go nuts every time you feel in danger than you can easily add yourself another 10 points.

Originally posted by SymbolicLogic
reply to post by stanislav

 

I support gun laws. I just don't go postal at the drop of the hat.

Or are you just going to spam comments to cover whatever I said?

Byron Smith shot both kids MULTIPLE times after incapacitating them both. He shot the boy in the shoulder, causing him to fall down the stairs..

Then shot him in the face! What part of that doesn't disturb you greatly? As for the girl, he admitted shooting her until his gun was empty and then delivered the "clean kill shot" with the gun pressed up under her chin because she had the temerity to "gasp" as she lay dying. I'm sure that an armed man has much to fear from a mortally wounded teenage girl. Wow, what a hero.

I'm having problems believing the events of the 'break in' happened exactly as Byron Smith stated.I'm not gonna render a statement on whether or not it is justified, because i don't know the full details of the case. But i do believe his story is highly suspect. peace,sugarcookie1


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reply to post by MidnightTide


The man was just trying to protect his home. How was he to know the criminals weren't armed?

And the 18 year old laughed at him after his gun jammed? If true then that may have prompted the homeowner to do what he did. He probably thought he was facing a bunch of lunatics. A normal person would have ran away in fear at the sight of a gun obviously going to be used at him. It's highly probable those teens were sociopaths or were suffering from severe psychological problems.

reply to post by sugarcookie1


I didnt hear about them details. Wow the guman was a psycho.....electric chair him.

too many trolls here now. I am out.

This simply comes down to the fact that if the thieving little swines did not break and enter said property this incident would have never taken place. Yes the owner did go over board but he had no idea as to the intentions of the perpetrators. This was not the first incident on the man's property. The fact that he chose to hide the bodies does nothing to support his side of the story and the manner in which he chose to execute the youths seems rather extreme but in that situation instinct takes over.

Dont screw houses if you want to live people!

Honestly some of you Americans are complete savages. This mentality of "you come onto my property and i have a right to take your life". NO! That is messed up. That is savagery. In my opinion he was within his rights to use his weapon, incapacitate them. Once that's been done, there's no need to fire any more rounds. He has no right to take away their lives based upon a youthful mistake. It is up to the police to punish offenders, not the victim. Once they posed no more threat to him or his property, he had no right to do anything to them.

You people claiming these kids(yes, they are just kids) deserved death for their youthful mistake. Honestly what is wrong with you people. Nobody is perfect, not all of us grow up around the best role models, not all of us make perfect decisions especially at that age. Imagine if we judged everyone based upon what they were doing during there teenage years? There's many great people in the world who were completely different people in their teen years.

To all you people who think they deserved death, imagine if it was your own son who made a huge mistake, and now was going to be executed for that mistake, no chance to learn from the mistake, no, just put to death. I bet you wouldn't support that if it was your own son or daughter being killed over their mistake.

They were kids who did something #ing stupid. They didn't murder anybody, breaking into a house at that age does not make you a bad person, it means you're on a bad path in life.

Life is much more complicated than you people make things out to be. I would love to see if you still felt the same way if it was your own son.

Tell me this, if you are born into a situation where there's a lack of positive role models around you. Then you are taught your life skills by other people who had a lack of positive role models, and you are just a teenage kid, is that your own fault? Do you deserve to die for a mistake you made?

I support gun owner ship. I don't support nutcases taking the law into their own hands and punishing the offender's themselves. After he incapacitated them he had no need whatsoever to end their lives. He was just getting revenge and dishing out punishment to these kids.

How would you feel if your own son was one of these kids?

People make mistakes, remember that. You're a slither of your life's potential at that age.

reply to post by blayze


Its not just Americans that feel this way mate. I live in Glasgow, Scotland and if i found a person or persons breaking into my flat(Which i have before) i would rip there throat out and carve them up! Knowing fully bfore hand that in this country i would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I just dont care. We do what we must to protect our lives and family from scum! Simple as that.

before I go. I will post this. You have to live here to judge what is necessary for our safety.

Violent crime is on the rise in the United States, and many Americans are totally fed up. According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, the number of household burglaries rose by 14 percent last year, and the overall rate of violent crime in the United States increased by 18 percent during 2011.

Based on what we have seen so far this year, we will almost certainly see another huge increase once the statistics for 2012 are released.

As home invasions continue to get worse all over the country, I expect that we will see a lot more of this type of thing.

In the old days, we were taught that if burglars enter your home that you should let them take whatever they want and leave.

But these days you simply cannot trust that they will leave you and your family alone. Many home invaders actually hope to find someone inside that they can rape, and many victims end up dead.

That is exactly what happened to one man in Gary, Indiana the other day…

Last Friday, Jerry Hood, 48, of Gary, Ind., left work and decided to go home during lunchtime. Gary police said Hood, who was with a co-worker, noticed activity in his house and called police for help, but did not wait for police to arrive. Instead he went in and lost his life when he disrupted a home invasion, police say. Hood died from multiple gunshot wounds.

And that is exactly what happened to another man in Pontiac, Michigan recently…

A shootout during a possible home invasion left the 27-year-old owner dead and a suspected intruder wounded, the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office said.

Deputies were called about 3:25 a.m. to an address in the 800 block of Inglewood Avenue near Cesar Chavez, where a home invasion was reported.

A 12-year-old girl down in Oklahoma may have been added to the growing list of dead victims if she had not been willing to shoot first and ask questions later.

The story that she recently told police is absolutely chilling…

“He opened the screen door and started pounded on the door. So I didn’t answer it. And I called my mom. She said to go get the gun and hide in the closet.”

Kendra St. Clair says she stayed in the closet until she thought the coast was clear. So she went to check the back door.

And he was standing there trying to open it. So I got really scared and I called 911.”

She went back to the closet. That’s when she heard the man in the house.

“When I was back there on the phone with 911, I heard the bathroom light turn on that was leading to the closet. And when I saw the door handle turn, I shot him. I guess it went through the door, went through him, and went through the wall.”


What do you think would have happened to that 12-year-old girl if she had not had a gun?

You normally would not think of Oklahoma as a high crime state, but the truth is that home invasions are on the rise all over the nation.

Here is another home invasion story from Oklahoma. A young mother was home alone with her three-month-old son when two men started breaking into her home. Fortunately, she had a gun and was willing to use it…

An Oklahoma woman was recently home with her 3 month old son when two men tried to break in. Armed with a shot gun and a pistol she called 9-1-1.

Operator: “Are your doors locked?”

Caller: “Yes, I’ve got two guns in my hand. Is it ok to shoot him if he comes in this door?”

Operator: “I can’t tell you what you can do but you do what you have to do to protect your baby.”

The mother did shoot killing one of the intruders. Oklahoma police called the shooting justified.
Would you do the same thing to protect your children?

Sadly, criminals are becoming more desperate than ever and many of them do not even care if there is anyone inside the homes that they are invading.

endoftheamericandream.com...

blayze

Honestly some of you Americans are complete savages

you are a judgmental idiot who knows nothing about our country besides the crap you read on bias sites that support the UN agenda to ruin all our countries. Blaze up chump, and flame away.

When strangers have broken into your home and threatened you and your loved ones...YOU CAN'T SHOOT ENOUGH!!!

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

The guy admitted to shooting them too many times and that he shot them because they laughed at him... I'm sure you can understand the guys anger... First they break into his little piece of heaven, his "safe haven" his home... Then they laugh in his face!

Incorrect. The deceased ALLEGEDLY broke into his "little piece of heaven" and then an 18 yr old girl ALLEGEDLY "laughed" at him AFTER she was already shot once and her cousin was dead.

The only thing we know FOR SURE is that a creepy old man has the bodies of 2 kids hidden in his basement which seem to have a rather unusual amount of bullet holes in them...even by the shooter's own admission.

Don't you think we ought to ask a couple more questions before just assuming that the kids are the ones at fault?

Instead of looking from the criminals point of view why not look at it from the old mans point of view? You really think this guy dragged 2 guys into his house and then shot em? Then would tell the police that he shot them for laughing at him? He didn't need to tell them that part and if it were me I wouldn't of... He could of just said he was scared that's why he hid the bodies... But no he told the truth... Why would you think he is lying?

I don't think he's lying or telling the truth. What I think is that nobody here has even REMOTELY enough information to EITHER condemn nor acquit this guy of 2 counts of First Degree Murder.

What is more plausible to you? Burglars get shot or some old man goes out and drags 2 lads back to his house so he can shoot them and hide the bodies in the basement? Not saying it is impossible but in the light of his admission I would say VERY improbable...

Personally...I find the nutty old man hypothesis to far, FAR more plausible than a grown man of any age feeling "threatened" by an 110lb, unarmed, 18 yr old girl whose male cousin is already dead. I also find it HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that an 18 year old girl with a dead cousin and one bullet in her already would be "laughing" at her shooter. I also find it HIGHLY IMPROBABLE, that "defending one's property" means putting ANOTHER bullet in this girls head AFTER she was already riddled full of bullets and on the ground gasping for breath.

I just don't get people defending people who would happily break into your house and ROB YOU!

Again...there is no evidence that they broke into this guys house, attempted to rob him, or threatened him in any way.

If they DID...well...that would probably change my opinion. However...I'm not willing to invent evidence which has not been presented just so I can support a love of firearms.

The creepy old guys story DOESN'T ADD UP. NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT.

Now...I'm willing to cut the dude some slack and say maybe there is a good reason which has not yet come to light as to why his story is so utterly bizarre....but that's much, much different from just saying "Oh well...the kids must have deserved it."

You know that you have just commited slander at the very least, don't you? Why is he a 'creepy' old man? Why don't you restrict your comments to the facts as known rather than make up your own story until it satisfies your opinion?

Originally posted by baddmove
I didn't read the whole thread yet..

was this posted?

www.startribune.com...

Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Monday that he believes the teenagers were committing a burglary but said Smith's reaction went beyond legal protections of Minnesota law that allows crime victims to use reasonable force to protect themselves and their property during a felony.

yeah and?

There are no laws in a situation like this!

There is you and them, and in the end you are dead or they are!

And remember reaction time is a factor, you snooze you lose!

Laws's???

In hind-sight, everything looks different as it does to different people. What you would do in the exact same situation, in that house on that day, in his body at his age is likely different than you think. While no one (well...hardly anyone) "deserves" to be killed, they made a decision to put their lives and other's at risk. Their "wrong" and their choice to do it caused their deaths. Now...it sounds like this guy should be in trouble according to the story I read, but the choice, the "wrong" and the situation was caused by the kids. IMHO...we all need to start placing blame where it belongs...with the ones who cause the situation, not how others react to it. When you start a series of events in motion, while there can be blame across the board...you are the one who "caused" the entire series of events.

reply to post by MidnightTide


My thoughts are: Don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned. Meaning. One stupid kid and one stupid adult out looking for an illegal thrill should have considered that death was an option -- if this incident is as simple as that.

The girl had a substance abuse problem according to the article. I cannot imagine that their motives were benign. They smashed in a window and entered. Hostile action. The homeowner shot the male as soon as he crawled inside the house. Witnessing that, the woman proceeds to enter the house. The man attempts to shoot her. Gun jams. She laughs. Laughs! She either had nerves of steel or was as high as a kite. I would definitely be unnerved by that action if I was the shooter. Also, there has been a string of at least 8 burglaries in the area before this. The homeowner knew this. He was prepared. Even so, the charges against the homeowner are justified. The first shot he fired was all that was needed; it was also justified as the homeowner opened fire as soon as the intruders entered. He took the situation much too far with the additional shots. He should have called the police after the first shot, while keeping a watchful eye on the girl and her strange behavior.

He brought the charges on himself. The kid and the adult brought their deaths upon themselves. Bottom line. Some posters have speculated that the intruders were in fact victims of kidnapping, sexual assault, and so on. I don't buy that. The next day the homeowner voluntarily went to a neighbor to inquire about a lawyer then called the police. I don't consider that the behavior of a criminal with the primary goal of not getting caught.

Cold as this may sound the intruders have earned their Darwin Awards. They had no idea what was awaiting them inside the house. Nor did they consider or seem to care about how their actions would affect anyone they encountered in the house. Death was payment for their recklessness. Youth is no excuse. I was their age at one time. I did not break into occupied homes for any reason. I considered what they did not. Essentially, they are dead because they did not consider or care about the possible consequences of their actions.

As for the homeowner. He will most likely spend the rest of his mortal days as a ward of the state. He ensured that by overreacting brought on by panic, vengeance, sadism, terror, or some other emotion/character trait. Take your pick. In any case he will most likely be found guilty. I can't say I feel sorry for him. Delaying notifying police brought on by panic I could understand. Shooting them multiple times and putting one through the chin for good measure I cannot. Unnecessary in the extreme. He has earned his punishment. May he enjoy his concrete box.....

You are transparent. Period. Even if people are to be made aware of what is occurring... they are wholly unable to understand it immediately. They will understand it eventually.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by buni11687

 

It can't be argued what he did was not excessive. However, the teens were still posing a threat to his life and property by robbing and breaking and entering. Personally, depending on the situation, I'd execute you if I thought there were multiple threats so I don't remotely have to worry about the neutralized threat.

I don't think this guy should be charged criminally, but should be forced to under go a psyche evaluation.

edit on 28-11-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Indeed! It seems a poor survival strategy to leave a live one behind you!

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by buni11687

 

It can't be argued what he did was not excessive. However, the teens were still posing a threat to his life and property by robbing and breaking and entering. Personally, depending on the situation, I'd execute you if I thought there were multiple threats so I don't remotely have to worry about the neutralized threat.

I don't think this guy should be charged criminally, but should be forced to under go a psyche evaluation.

edit on 28-11-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Indeed! It seems a poor survival strategy to leave a live one behind you!

Not knowing the details it seems he might have been excessive, but it is hard to say. I can also see two well liked students getting caught and making sure no one knew they were there in a situation where if he caught them and he had no protection.

If I'm an older gentleman and I'm faced with two young adults in my own house my only advantage to ensure something really bad does not happen to me is to shoot first. To say what is too much is hard to say…1 bullet or 30 is about the same results.