Disclosure of the moon landing hoax.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
Apollo was tested and tested and tested in both unmanned and manned forms. Landing on the moon was tested with unmanned probes many times before Apollo got there. Separating and re-uniting LM stages was done in Earth and lunar orbit. Launching things and getting them to meet up in orbit is, at its most basic level, not difficult - it's just a matter of timing.

The LM had no test landings on the lunar surface, nor any tests done of the separation and liftoff of the ascent stage from the lunar surface. I guess they just 'knew' that it was all good to go, so why bother, right?

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
Apollo was not a giant leap, that's just a cute soundbite from Armstrong. Apollo was a logical progression along a series of carefully planned out steps that tried and tested every procedure they could, starting with just getting something into orbit. Yes they landed on the moon without first landing people on the moon, sorry if that offends you but someone has to be the first, someone at some point has to take a risk to do something for the first time just like anything else.

It offends me that people are sucked in by the Apollo fantasy still. I'd love it if it were really true, but I stick with reality. I don't prefer it, but I can't bury my head in the sand. The awful truth is that it was a hoax.

I'm sorry if that offends you, but it's the reality.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
Your post also demonstrates that you have no idea how science works, or scientists, or that advances in technology can bring different results. They did find water in Apollo samples, but they did not make the mistake of claiming it was lunar water without being absolutely certain. Advances in technology allowed samples and data to be re-evaluated. That's how science works. As an aside, NASA was finding evidence from its probes of widespread water in 2009, but water in Apollo samples was detected in 2008.

They said they found water in Apollo samples after they found water all over the lunar surface. You can say they were not "absolutely certain" before that, if you like. The fact remains that they never said they found water in Apollo samples until after they found water all over the moon. Now they are finding water is in many other Apollo samples. I guess they didn't want to say it until they were "absolutely certain", too!!

originally posted by: choos
and they CHOSE to delay it due to budget constraints.. orion will have its first test flight later this year..

I suppose they CHOSE to waste all the money and get nowhere in the process, and they CHOSE to get more money and waste all that, as well, and still get nowhere in the process.

They just CHOOSE to waste all the money which they said would get humans to the moon. They could have used all that money to get humans 'back' to the moon, no problem there. They just CHOSE not to do it. Pissing away all the money just seemed like a much more enjoyable thing to do at the time!

I get it now!!

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: choos
and they CHOSE to delay it due to budget constraints.. orion will have its first test flight later this year..

I suppose they CHOSE to waste all the money and get nowhere in the process, and they CHOSE to get more money and waste all that, as well, and still get nowhere in the process.

They just CHOOSE to waste all the money which they said would get humans to the moon. They could have used all that money to get humans 'back' to the moon, no problem there. They just CHOSE not to do it. Pissing away all the money just seemed like a much more enjoyable thing to do at the time!

I get it now!!

orion is having its first experimental flight later this year.. i thought you said it went no where?

originally posted by: turbonium1

The LM had no test landings on the lunar surface, nor any tests done of the separation and liftoff of the ascent stage from the lunar surface. I guess they just 'knew' that it was all good to go, so why bother, right?

calculated risks, they were prepared if the LM engine didnt work or something occured during lift-off.. these MEN are prepared for this..

apollo 10 was a dress re-hearsal upto physically landing on the moon.. the ascent engine was designed to be as reliable as possible.. they were all prepared for the risks it was a calculated risk.. have you never done anything dangerous before??

It offends me that people are sucked in by the Apollo fantasy still. I'd love it if it were really true, but I stick with reality. I don't prefer it, but I can't bury my head in the sand. The awful truth is that it was a hoax.

I'm sorry if that offends you, but it's the reality.

which is due to your ignorance.. provide solid proof of the hoax that you believe 100% in.. saying you dont believe it because its too risky is definitely not good enough.

They said they found water in Apollo samples after they found water all over the lunar surface. You can say they were not "absolutely certain" before that, if you like. The fact remains that they never said they found water in Apollo samples until after they found water all over the moon. Now they are finding water is in many other Apollo samples. I guess they didn't want to say it until they were "absolutely certain", too!!

you see?? ignorance.. water was found in the samples that apollo astronauts brought back.. but it was thought to be from contamination..

apollo 14 also found traces of water from the ALSEP experiment back in 1971..

yet somehow you are using this as evidence they didnt land on the moon??? you not knowing how science works is not a good enough reason to say with 100% certainty they didnt land men on the moon.

originally posted by: choos

likewise..

shows us the data that you have that has given you so much confidence that the VAB are deadly even if you pass through the outer edges at high speed.

p.s. dangerous does not mean deadly.. it does not mean impossible to pass.. incase you forgot the first time you brought all this up..

I didn't claim the VAB are deadly, first of all. I don't know if they are, so I don't claim it. And I don't know why you keep believing that is my claim. Do you understand that it is not my claim, once and for all?

I know that the VAB were not understood during the Apollo era. I know NASA lied by saying they DID understand the VAB at the time.

Why anyone would believe NASA isn't lying about landing men on the moon, after we now have undeniable PROOF that they lied about knowing the VAB at the time, simply boggles the mind.

I want to see the VA probe data from your side first, as I asked for it before you did, likewise.

originally posted by: choos

orion is having its first experimental flight later this year.. i thought you said it went no where?

Nowhere near the moon, nowhere near the VAB. That's certainly going nowhere, compared to your magical Apollo, during the magical 1960's!

No lander, and no idea how to build one, is also going nowhere.

originally posted by: turbonium1

I didn't claim the VAB are deadly, first of all. I don't know if they are, so I don't claim it. And I don't know why you keep believing that is my claim. Do you understand that it is not my claim, once and for all?

but you know for certain that with 100% absolute certainty that no matter what trajectory anyone plans to take.. it is definitely 100% impossible to pass the VAB.. even though you dont even know if the VAB are deadly..

does this make really make sense to you??

I know that the VAB were not understood during the Apollo era. I know NASA lied by saying they DID understand the VAB at the time.

they knew where there were pockets.. they knew where the VAB was strongest and weakest.. they knew the VAB were like a DONUT around our planet.. and not compelely exncompassing our planet..

yet you know for an absolute fact that it is completely impassable even though you dont know if its deadly....

Why anyone would believe NASA isn't lying about landing men on the moon, after we now have undeniable PROOF that they lied about knowing the VAB at the time, simply boggles the mind.

I want to see the VA probe data from your side first, as I asked for it before you did, likewise.

they had a good understanding of it..
if you knew a wall was on fire in front of you and you had to pass by it somehow, i guess you would sit there and give up and not even think about walking around it..

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: turbonium1

The LM had no test landings on the lunar surface, nor any tests done of the separation and liftoff of the ascent stage from the lunar surface. I guess they just 'knew' that it was all good to go, so why bother, right?

calculated risks, they were prepared if the LM engine didnt work or something occured during lift-off.. these MEN are prepared for this..

"calculated risks"?

It was a "calculated risk" when they decided to OUTRIGHT LIE to the world about 'understanding' the VA Belts, wouldn't you say?

You don't care that they lied to the world, I assume? That the lie was done in the name of propping up the Apollo fairy tale, is also okay with you, then?

originally posted by: turbonium1

I want to see the VA probe data from your side first, as I asked for it before you did, likewise.

www.braeunig.us...

www.hq.nasa.gov...

www.spacemedicineassociation.org...

books.google.co.uk... FoS62nq-7F_fc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1ZumU9D8J6LV0QXkpIGoDQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=Soviet%20research%20into%20Van%20Allen%20belts&f=false

www.foia.cia.gov...

www.clavius.org...

originally posted by: choos

they knew where there were pockets.. they knew where the VAB was strongest and weakest.. they knew the VAB were like a DONUT around our planet.. and not compelely exncompassing our planet..

they had a good understanding of it..
if you knew a wall was on fire in front of you and you had to pass by it somehow, i guess you would sit there and give up and not even think about walking around it..

What are you talking about.."they had a good understanding of it.."??

They have clearly told us WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE BELTS AT THE TIME OF APOLLO!!

They have clearly told us that that we used to believe about the VAB was COMPLETELY WRONG.

You must be delusional, or in a state of denial, because you have no idea what they are saying .


Sorry, but I can't help you with that. Good luck.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: turbonium1

The LM had no test landings on the lunar surface, nor any tests done of the separation and liftoff of the ascent stage from the lunar surface. I guess they just 'knew' that it was all good to go, so why bother, right?

calculated risks, they were prepared if the LM engine didnt work or something occured during lift-off.. these MEN are prepared for this..

"calculated risks"?

It was a "calculated risk" when they decided to OUTRIGHT LIE to the world about 'understanding' the VA Belts, wouldn't you say?

You don't care that they lied to the world, I assume? That the lie was done in the name of propping up the Apollo fairy tale, is also okay with you, then?

where?? show us the figures?? is the VAB deadlier than they said it was?? for over 40 years nations around the world have been sending up satellites that need to work in and around the VAB.. scientists and engineers around the world need to have a good understanding of the VAB if they plan to make a satellite that will be orbitting earth..

now how did NASA lie to all of these people??

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: choos

they knew where there were pockets.. they knew where the VAB was strongest and weakest.. they knew the VAB were like a DONUT around our planet.. and not compelely exncompassing our planet..

they had a good understanding of it..
if you knew a wall was on fire in front of you and you had to pass by it somehow, i guess you would sit there and give up and not even think about walking around it..

What are you talking about.."they had a good understanding of it.."??

They have clearly told us WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE BELTS AT THE TIME OF APOLLO!!

They have clearly told us that that we used to believe about the VAB was COMPLETELY WRONG.

You must be delusional, or in a state of denial, because you have no idea what they are saying .


Sorry, but I can't help you with that. Good luck.

state of denial??? says the guy who doesnt even know if the VAB belt is deadly or not.. but knows for absolute certainty they cant pass it..

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

originally posted by: turbonium1

I want to see the VA probe data from your side first, as I asked for it before you did, likewise.

www.braeunig.us...

www.hq.nasa.gov...

www.spacemedicineassociation.org...

books.google.co.uk... FoS62nq-7F_fc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1ZumU9D8J6LV0QXkpIGoDQ&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=Soviet%20research%20into%20Van%20Allen%20belts&f=false

www.foia.cia.gov...

www.clavius.org...

Is that supposed to be data?

Where do I find the VA probe data which supports your argument? Throwing out some links is not what I meant by showing me VA probe 'data'.

So now that you know what I'm specifically asking you for is the actual DATA, then please go ahead...

originally posted by: choos

state of denial??? says the guy who doesnt even know if the VAB belt is deadly or not.. but knows for absolute certainty they cant pass it..

Still going with a claim you made up for me?

As I said, good luck, I can't help you on that.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: choos

state of denial??? says the guy who doesnt even know if the VAB belt is deadly or not.. but knows for absolute certainty they cant pass it..

Still going with a claim you made up for me?

As I said, good luck, I can't help you on that.

so you arent even claiming that the VAB are impassable now?? so now you also believe that NASA can get humans past the VAB and into lunar orbit? welcome to today!!!

From my own 1968 copy of Van Nostrand's scientific encyclopedia 4th ed 1968



The data are out there. Not my problem if you are too lazy to find it and not equipped to understand it. Did you even bother to look at the links? Lots of data in them.

What I'm giving you is proof that the basic structure of them was understood and known about at the time.

Provide your own data to prove that they are impassable.

The Soviets knew a lot about them too - they actually discovered them before Van Allen and cheerfully sent animals to the moon and back through them.

a reply to: choos
orion is having its first experimental flight later this year

you've been drinking too much KooL-aid if you think that will ever reach the moon with men onboard

OK, folks...

That'll quite enough. In fact, it's gone well past enough into too damned much...

If you can't discuss the topic without calling each other liars, or drinking whatever, don't post.

What am I trying to say, you ask?



Knock it off, and post to the topic. Not each other!!

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: choos

they knew where there were pockets.. they knew where the VAB was strongest and weakest.. they knew the VAB were like a DONUT around our planet.. and not compelely exncompassing our planet..

they had a good understanding of it..
if you knew a wall was on fire in front of you and you had to pass by it somehow, i guess you would sit there and give up and not even think about walking around it..

What are you talking about.."they had a good understanding of it.."??

They have clearly told us WE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE BELTS AT THE TIME OF APOLLO!!

They have clearly told us that that we used to believe about the VAB was COMPLETELY WRONG.

How much did Christopher Columbus, or even the Vikings, understand about the currents, geography and weather of the Atlantic? You don't have to have a perfect understanding of something to travel through it. That's kind of what exploration is.

We know how much radiation the Apollo crews received. It was more than you'd get on Earth, of course, but for a short flight it was nothing to worry about.

originally posted by: Rob48
How much did Christopher Columbus, or even the Vikings, understand about the currents, geography and weather of the Atlantic? You don't have to have a perfect understanding of something to travel through it. That's kind of what exploration is...

Heck, let's consider the ionosphere (the part of the atmosphere between the upper stratosphere and space) as an example.

We still don't have a complete understanding of the ionosphere, and it is right there above our heads. One main reason is because it is too high for balloons to explore it, but too low for orbital probes to do so. However, the relative unknown of the ionosphere does not prevent us from passing through it safely.

It doesn't surprise me tat we do not complete understand the Van Allen belts and are still learning more about them all the time -- just like we don't completely understand the highest parts of our atmosphere but are still learning more about it every day. The fact that there are unknowns about it does not make it a place we avoid.