Rifle-Toting Terrorists Called Major Threat to U.S. Power Grid

I do see this as problem, first off the Government knew full weel be hand that the WTC was going to be hit, watch it be hit.
Condlisa Rice, had the info sitting on her desk.

I don't think a bunch of Islam's with high power hunting rifles or AKs would go over good, the good ole boys would have a big ole hunt.

Why not use 50 Islam terrorist with cars, they can dive cars. Ever see a car hit a transformer in the movies, this just sounds like a reason to forbid hunting rifles. Might as well forbid cars also.

God forbid they start to shot at oil refineries or nuclear power plants.

The thing they really need to address and are not is if we have a violet solar storm like the one in 1859, the wole grid goes down world wide. They need to set up a means of detection, ( Radio Active Decay ) and a way to shut

down, isolate the grid so it does not get fried.

I would worry more about dirty bombs, than having to do a few electrical repairs. look at the Ice storm in Canada, had to beat that one.

reply to post by stumason


If we lose the power grid, it will most likely be because of a Cyber attack. For example, China makes a lot of parts that go into our power grids. What if they pre install devices or software that can manipulate or plant a virus on the network.

However, if terrorist some how figure out how to become stealthy and patient they can get highered at a electric plant and have physical access to the network and plant a virus that way.

Our electrical grid will most likely never be knocked, unless it comes from a EMP strike or a Cyber attack.

Good thing terrorists are either stupid or fictional or psyops caused by our government....

There is that small chip idea, seems that stuff breaks down just after the years up or the replacement one for that matter! How come a cell phone changes after 6mo's with new stuff added now your phone is out of date and you just bought it!
We can say the power grid is never been updated, some places have been only they have their own power using gen and not on the grid so maintain them. Most just fix what is broken and not worry untill the next fix. So now it has parts of lines in good condition while the rest is held buy yhe Grace of God!
Nothing last anymore like it use too back in the day, maybe there is that small chip that is program to shut off after a time, or that computer you have decides to be hacked someday, oh the battery that keeps your bois sys, has to be replaced sometime! Something small would be the cause of it because we tend to forget the small stuff and buy the crap we really never needed!

reply to post by OOOOOO


It really bugs me when people panic like they do about solar flares. I Agree, a large enough flare would do some substantial damage, but you need to understand a solar flare is a really big emp burst. Nuclear weapons, and non nuclear weapons can produce them. IT doesn't end the entire electrical grid for good. Depending on the device, and whether it is on or off depends on what will happen. There are areas of the world that would be effected in a fairly severe manner, and others that will blitz through it with maybe some interrupted services.

My concern with a Large solar flare like this would be all those satellites of the worlds nation that will get super fried and could decide to drop to earth any time from that point on. Nothing like thousands of bricks of steel, alluminum and titanium just waiting to come crashing down on your homes. Some of which have nuclear material in them. Not good at all.

The Solar Flare of 1859 should remind us to prepare our systems for such surges, but it's not likely to devastate the world as many think. Not to mention, you said whole world... The side facing the sun would take the hit, the side facing away would get very little effect. Models are available that show flares interacting with the earths magnetic field. You should check em out. Also a good idea, to learn how electro magnetic Pulses interact with various electronics and lengths of wire. Some of it isn't very fantastical at all.

reply to post by Hijinx
The solar event that took palace in 1859 lasted for some time from what I have read. It stated there was fire in the sky.
The other thing is, I don't know how much you know about electricity and the grid, but the state the grid is in now, it could go down like domino's. With little cause to cause collapse of.

This is also a big concern of NASA, I have spoken with a few electrical engineers about this and little has been done to protect the grid. There is no protection. If it was really bad they say it could take years to repair.

This is why you need to be separated from the grid then you can shut down and wait, till the danger passes.

1859
Just before dawn the next day, skies all over planet Earth erupted in red, green, and purple auroras so brilliant that newspapers could be read as easily as in daylight. Indeed, stunning auroras pulsated even at near tropical latitudes over Cuba, the Bahamas, Jamaica, El Salvador, and Hawaii.

Even more disconcerting, telegraph systems worldwide went haywire. Spark discharges shocked telegraph operators and set the telegraph paper on fire. Even when telegraphers disconnected the batteries powering the lines, aurora-induced electric currents in the wires still allowed messages to be transmitted.

reply to post by OOOOOO


This translates today into cell phone exploding in our pockets
Monitors and CPUs turning into time bombs

And 3 years of darkness

reply to post by DrGod


No it doesn't. It really doesn't.

"Seventeen major flares erupted on the Sun between 19 October and 5 November 2003, including perhaps the most intense flare ever measured on the GOES XRS sensor – a huge X28 flare,[17] resulting in an extreme radio blackout, on 4 November. These flares were associated with CME events which impacted the Earth"

X28 is a pretty big solar flare.. We're all still here, along with our technology. Solar flares have the potential to damage some electrical systems but it isn't enough energy to completely ruin them. Long strands of wire like those for telegraph lines are the most susceptible to the increase in ambient EMF. Devices like cellphones, and other battery operated devices would be very unlikely to burn, pop, explode or do anything at all. You'd be more likely to lose service because of the interference with the radio signals than anything else. Solar flares are some what of a concern, but we tend to butter it up quite a bit with our doomy gloomy minds.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by DrGod

This translates today into cell phone exploding in our pockets

I think it translates into a cell phone becoming a useless lump in my pocket after the battery backups in the towers go dead and the electrical grid is still down. It took about two days after Sandy shut the power down for the cell tower batteries to go dead.

Is this another "Anti-gun thread"??? I could accomplish the same freaking thing with a car! Or a hacksaw! Or a slingshot! Or a cutting torch! Or any of a million different ways.

OH... MY... GOD... The terrorist are everywhere! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES... BUT... before you do, please surrender any liberty or freedom at the door on your way out. Ok, continue panicking for no good reason...

Good lord, this country needs help!!!

Originally posted by kozmo
Is this another "Anti-gun thread"??? I could accomplish the same freaking thing with a car! Or a hacksaw! Or a slingshot! Or a cutting torch! Or any of a million different ways.

OH... MY... GOD...

The terrorist are everywhere! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES... BUT... before you do, please surrender any liberty or freedom at the door on your way out. Ok, continue panicking for no good reason...

Good lord, this country needs help!!!

No anti-gun intent at all and if others are reading that into the OP they are seeing something absolutely not intended!

The OP IS about grid vulnerability not at the power plant nor substations but at step-up transformers used on long distance transmission lines.

Due to long wire length CME's are one possibility, a coordinated attack by riflemam or other means is another and man made EMP is another way. Lets not forget cyber-attack either as it could be done in a way to create overloads necessary to do longterm damage.

As far as I can determine the specialized transformers have an 18-36 month leadtime and that is at a low quantity order rate, the leadtime probably has a signifigant increase when one considers having a need for 50 to 100 of them. Manufacturing limitations are only one of the issues, you also have shipping, handling and transportation limitations imposed with grid down situation.

reply to post by Phoenix


Fair enough! Let us simply surmise then that the electrical grid is vulnerable to a WIDE VARIETY of threats. We can discuss how to "harden" it, but how is such an astronomical undertaking funded? Would you pay a 300% or even a 500% increase in your electric bill to undertake the task? Many can't, Most won't.

Rather than wringing my hands over that which I have no control, I have put my nervous energy into preparing for a worst case scenario. Bought a generator. Have food storage. Secured a way to process potable water. Etcetera...

The grid (Along with most infrastructure) could be taken out by an asteroid as well. What should we do about that?

reply to post by kozmo


I will just add this. Being prepared is

The more technocratic and the more structured a society is, the easier it is to bring down.

Technocratic societies rely on technocratic solutions to technocratic problems. They never seem to be able to see the real simple things. The Abrams Tank can be overcome by the simple expedient of digging a hole that it falls into.

Bureaucratic societies rely on Bureaucratic solutions to Bureaucratic problems. They never seem to be able to see the real simple things. Burn the records! Kill the people at the bottom of the pyramid.

Just imagine, in the US, what would happen if you took out Hoover dam and the one that supplies LA. Just think of the repercussions. Water and power plus the enormous flooding.

P

reply to post by kozmo


Yes thats really the message, be prepared as best you can be and be happy with that! The downer is your own government may list you because of the simple expedient you are prepared somehow makes you dangerous.

Dangerous is, folks in a dissater who did not prepare and have the smartass idea they deserve what others have.

People need to realize that whats taken for granted can quickly go away, in the process making it very clear how thin the veneer of civilization really is.

If a majority could be prepared in some way that veneer would be thicker.

In my world a bucket of long-term food storage is far more valuable that the latest automobile, cell phone, gadget or bigscreen TV. Priorities........................