The God Illusion...

reply to post by Klassified

Actually, most of them claim god has always been, no beginning, and no end.

Yes, that's what I was told as soon as I was old enough to start asking questions about this bizarro story. I was told that our brains can't comprehend it....and just that it is what it is.

All my childhood went to church (mainstream Episcopalian), and all of my childhood I tried but never believed it.

I don't know. I'm just glad my mom outgrew it, too -- and we are now able to have FABULOUS conversations about it, and have our own little "book club study group" reading about the various styles of religion and belief. It's endlessly interesting.

Maybe some of us just aren't cut of the correct cloth to buy into the plan.....and "God knows, I've tried"!!!!!

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Incorrect.

God did not "come to be out of nothing", neither did He come to be.

God is just God, He is what he always has been, He's timeless, infinite and unfathomable to the finite mind.

reply to post by wildtimes


This is the danger of giving up the True faith in the True God,

What starts as a journey into spiritism / spirituality, eventually leads to atheism and abandonment of all Holy beliefs,

Just what exactly DO you believe in, wildtimes?

reply to post by godlover25


I believe we are all connected to One Source, and that this physical life is a stopping-off place for our souls.

I believe we are here to learn, and as I as well as others have stated, that we return again and again until we are prepared to be reunited with the Source. I believe we will all get to that reunion point in the end.

I believe there are unseen and only peripherally understood (for most of us) beings that do help us; angels, guides, whatever you want to call them. I believe humans are capable of MUCH MORE than we have so far figured out how to do.

I believe the biggest lesson is love and compassion, and caring for ONE ANOTHER.

I do NOT believe in a white-haired old guy sitting on a throne in the clouds doling out primary school discipline and sending people to burn forever in hell. Nor do I believe in this "Trinity" concoction. (And if there must be three "faces" of God, why is the Holy Spirit, at the very LEAST, not a "feminine" face?)

I believe that modern Abrahamic religions are concoctions by people men, trying to understand what we can't understand, and who wrote down theories and ideas about those things.

I could say that "right now I'm Divinely Inspired by the Holy Ghost to tell you this on behalf of God", but there's nothing really to back that up. I don't claim it; I claim that I think about these things, and don't have any answers, and don't believe many of the answers that others have come up with. I believe a book written by one group of people thousands of years ago is fine for posterity and study; like a curiosity. I do not believe it is "truth". One can glean just as much "theology" from reading the Dune series by Frank Herbert, for example.

Every time researchers and historians come up with "new findings" on past events and people, the old versions are revised, updated, and edited. The same should be happening with religious handbooks. What we thought we knew about Thomas Jefferson has just been exposed as false; every day there are "recent" findings and changes of "history". Religion is NOT ABOVE being updated, revised, and made sensible.

That's what I believe. Do I repent that? Nope. It's common sense, which was a birthright endowed to me by the universe. I believe I'm part of that universe; that we all are, and that we are connected, inextricably. I believe humanity has a curiosity and a deeply embedded wish to know why we are here, from where we came, and where we are going. I don't believe humanity has it figured out now, nor did they thousands of years ago.

We depend on this planet for EVERYTHING, and we are all in this together. I believe that we should behave like it.

reply to post by wildtimes

Maybe some of us just aren't cut of the correct cloth to buy into the plan.....and "God knows, I've tried"!!!!!

If you'll pardon the pun. Thank god you didn't buy into "the plan". I very much resent the decades of my life gone with no way to retrieve them. And I feel bad to this day about the people I deceived into the cult of Christianity. I can only hope some of them came to their senses later.

I do however, appreciate what I learned from those many years. Unfortunately, I know enough to understand that I can't pull anyone back out of the cult. They will have to come to that place on their own.

reply to post by wildtimes


I believe the same truths up until the Abrahamic religions part and that is where our worldviews diverge. You'll be pleasantly surprised when you met the God of Abraham if you hold to selflessness instead of selfishness as society teaches these days

reply to post by Klassified


Klass,
do you still live in the same community as when you were behind the pulpit?

Have you ever run across a former "congregate" (is that the term? "parishioner"?) of your tenure who has stayed in or bowed out of the 'cult'? I hope you know how many people you have helped right here; and that you still have faith that those you "shepherded" have since found their way to a new understanding. Can you think of a way to "make amends" with any of them, or do you think it's necessary?

You're right, we can't "remove" anyone from the paths on which they are determined to continue. We can only plant the seeds of options, experience, and knowledge. It's for them to water and tend anything that sprouts...

Human beings are very resilient. There's no reason to assume that every one of those you persuaded continued to believe ever since. I'm babbling now....but, I certainly don't blame the priests who were at the altar at my church; I don't blame any one person. I was not forced to believe or comply any further than attending the place weekly. I did enjoy choir, and made some friends with some classmates who also went there.

Religion is what it is; a facet of society. A normal person will move through phases of life, in and out of different facets of society, as the current carries them along. Some might thrash and gnash their teeth at the next "waterfall" in the flow, but others will swim through it, arrive safely on the other side, and look back with wisdom.

reply to post by godlover25


Can you be more specific about which parts you don't agree with? I only mentioned the Abrahamic religions in one sentence. Did you agree with all but that sentence? Or did you stop reading at that sentence?

What about the old man with the beard? Do you believe that?

I look forward to meeting my Maker, but I'm in NO RUSH to bring it on. It will happen, of that I am DEAD CERTAIN.
No need to hasten it. Meanwhile, I do my best to enjoy each day that I draw breath, to relish nature's beauty, and to love those I am privileged to have in my life (humans and animals equally).

Plus, drinking beer is nice.
~wild

reply to post by godlover25


Why the god of Abraham why not the god of the Ancient Greeks. Neither exist so what difference does it make.

How can god have always been here. Everything has a beginning, even invisible omnipotent all powerful beings. Your point if view makes the Big Bang so simple.

Originally posted by wildtimes

When?

Tell me when, what date, time, place, etc. I don't want to miss the show.
Please, don't tease us. WHEN?
When?!

Oh hey brah, check me out I'm in yer thread! Oh hey, who likes "teh science" mang? Oh looky looky, I'm running an experiment; join in the observation, we're testing a hypothesis over here, I'd like to invite you to help DISPROVE it, so get your peepers open and make your observations. Hey, check it, I'm using "teh science" to destroy atheism! Ever wonder how bad it stings when someone runs you through with your own sword. Ouch, brah. Stings like FIRE lol and who says God doesn't have a sense of humor.

TAPS 4 ATHEISM

reply to post by wildtimes


I believe God is a bearded man who zooms around on a motorized cloud taking notes of all our bad actions on a daily basis,

reply to post by MrCobb


Using ridicule and sarcasm abundantly are really not the most efficacious way to offer up intellectual challenges to folks who share dissimilar worldviews from your own,

Just trying to offer constructive criticism....

reply to post by GafferUK1981


On our linear time scale from our finite human perspective everything has a beginning,

Why would an Eternal, Omniscient, Omnipotent Being need a "beginning" as defined by His own creations?

reply to post by godlover25


Because everything has a beginning. Even time. Plus something so complex as your creator would need a creator of his own.

reply to post by wildtimes

No, I live in a different state now. Although I was active in the church here for quite some time. Just not involved in the inner workings of the church as I had previously been. A much lower profile if you will. I preached and taught here a few times though.

It's a small town, I occasionally run into folks I used to go to church with here. But only a few know I am now an atheist. Although I'm sure they have told others.

I have used ATS as somewhat of a pennance. I do believe people have the right to believe as they choose, but a big part of me wants to keep people from getting caught up in the biggest cult, and deception ever perpetrated on the masses. But I have to remember, when I was a Christian, the threat of death would not have convinced me of that. I had to come to that revelation on my own...

reply to post by MrCobb

Oh hey, who likes "teh science" mang? Oh looky looky, I'm running an experiment; join in the observation, we're testing a hypothesis over here, I'd like to invite you to help DISPROVE it, so get your peepers open and make your observations. Hey, check it, I'm using "teh science" to destroy atheism!

What?

reply to post by Klassified

. . . a big part of me wants to keep people from getting caught up in the biggest cult, and deception ever perpetrated on the masses.

Me too, but I don't need to be an atheist to do that.
The cult, with the deception, is a sub-group of (nominally so, in this case) Christianity that says 'you don't have to be good to go to heaven'.