My Will is God's Will

"The ultimate test of a relationship is to disagree but to hold hands." - Alexandria Penney.

Let's break down what is deemed as the ritual of the Lord's prayer, although Jesus Christ said you should pray like this and not say it verbatim emptily, which I think he said because it was directed to the people that only look within the confines of the bible, that is another discussion for another day.

"Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

Let's touch upon the line of: "your will be done."

Who would have known this little line would be the central theme in a debate?

What if I were to tell you what I think my will is, is actually indirectly Father's will?

I am expecting the responses of from modern Christians is around the lines of, "Following after your own will is a sin against God," and if your response is around these lines, don't bother to post to this thread right now, and take a step back.

To say free will exist is to say that God does not have everything planned, and that would postulate that this life that we live in is a chaotic order, but even the number of hairs on our head is planned; that is how deep the love runs.

I say to those that say free will exists, I say Father is omniscient, and He knows what we will do/say/feel and uses it for the greater good, which would postulate that we really have no choice or say in the matter, but to just ride along the currents of the stream and have fun splashing each other.

That being said, is not my will Father's will? Discuss.

In my view, we have free will in order to help us learn; that is, via experience.

I believe in the end, whether or not an all-seeing, all-knowing super-consciousness is keeping tabs, that we will all get to the ultimate reunion with perfection. I can't prove it, and yes, I'm on the fence.

Is that some "Father's" will? My dad didn't tell me I had to everything his way. Isn't parenting about allowing mistakes and stumbles so that the child can grow into their own? Their own "self"?

If we were robots always doing what someone programmed us to do, well, then what's the point?

So, I guess I agree that as part of the One, the Unity of the cosmos - and a tiny, insignificant part at that - my job is to learn, to continue "becoming". I don't think a person stops "developing" unless they CHOOSE to. I choose not to. Every day I'm slightly different, from moment to moment.

s/f

I don't think so because I've made a great number of decisions which have hurt me and sometimes others, and also let some good opportunities slip away, again due to choosing the 'wrong' thing...in other words, I think my will is different from the maker's will, coz I don't think he would have made those particular choices (for me) and might have even tried to show me the better way but I wasn't acting upon those clues...

Originally posted by wildtimes


Is that some "Father's" will? My dad didn't tell me I had to everything his way. Isn't parenting about allowing mistakes and stumbles so that the child can grow into their own? Their own "self"?


s/f

Your pop sounds like mine. I sum up the parenting style like this: I will let you go up to the bat, swing, and strike out, and let you learn why you struck out. If you are making the same mistakes over and over again, then I will get involved and teach you, stand back, and let you swing again.

If parenting is about allowing mistakes and stumbles so that the child can grow, why is following after your own will a sin in the mind of modern Christian theology?

What if you chose beforehand to make those mistakes so that you can learn those lessons?

Originally posted by rainychica
I don't think so because I've made a great number of decisions which have hurt me and sometimes others, and also let some good opportunities slip away, again due to choosing the 'wrong' thing...in other words, I think my will is different from the maker's will, coz I don't think he would have made those particular choices (for me) and might have even tried to show me the better way but I wasn't acting upon those clues...

What if you made all those decisions that hurt you and sometimes other so that you could learn not to, and Father's will was to let you make those mistakes so that when you did learn, you would have great joy and appreciate that grade on the test tenfold?

reply to post by DelayedChristmas

What if you chose beforehand to make those mistakes so that you can learn those lessons?

That's precisely what I believe. And we keep coming back to "live" another round until we've learned the lessons, which we signed up for before arrival. We decide what lessons are left unlearned, and zap, here we are back again, to learn it, while having forgotten the syllabus. When we finish this "round", we return to the ethereal, evaluate how we did, and sign up again for whatever else....

when we've graduated, we don't have to come back. We can choose to, but we don't "have" to.

I think those who are growing and developing the most rapidly are those who repeat the same mistakes IN ONE LIFETIME, finally figure out what they're doing that doesn't work, and then decide to CHANGE what they're doing.

In my case, I've had a series of failed relationships, and finally realized the common denominator in them -- having to do with my "choice" of partner's character and my own "expectations" or "agenda" in doing so.

Took me several very painful extractions and losses (and yes, there was collateral damage to some of those I truly love, like my children and former partners), but now I've learned. I had to consciously amend my "tendencies", to evaluate the results, own my own part in the failures, and DECIDE not to make the same mistakes again.

Unless we examine those repeated mistakes, we won't really get it.
Like you said, up to bat, swing. Up to bat, swing. Up to bat, swing. You finally hit the ball. Okay, what did I do differently? Why was my old swing not working? AHA!!! I see!

Okay, so it was a habit to hold the bat that way, convinced it was proper. I had to learn for myself how to hold the bat differently in order to connect with the ball.

good thread.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

What if you chose beforehand to make those mistakes so that you can learn those lessons?

That's precisely what I believe. And we keep coming back to "live" another round until we've learned the lessons, which we signed up for before arrival. We decide what lessons are left unlearned, and zap, here we are back again, to learn it, while having forgotten the syllabus. When we finish this "round", we return to the ethereal, evaluate how we did, and sign up again for whatever else....

when we've graduated, we don't have to come back. We can choose to, but we don't "have" to.

Nice, a revision of Buddha's concept of the Karma/Samsaric wheel, which I think is pretty depressing to come back as a cow or bird, well maybe not a bird because birds fly and are awesome, but I do respect the concept of animism of the Hindu/Buddhist beliefs, which leads to nonviolence towards the creatures.

reply to post by DelayedChristmas


In my little system, once a human, always a human until we graduate out of humanity. I don't buy into the "different species" concept. Except perhaps for the smarter ones -- I read somewhere long ago that perhaps dolphins, whales, elephants, those wise, long-lived animals are the last incarnation.

I like that idea. But I don't think we come back as cockroaches or snakes or rats or anything like that. Wouldn't make sense. We have to keep learning in the same vessel/venue we have. Being a different species would be too much chaos. You'd have to start over every time with "first time being a cockr-------" splat. Damn. Next time I'll watch for people's shoes. Oh, now I'm a cat?

No, I don't buy that one.

I DO however, go along with the Buddhist regard for ALL LIFE. We are stewards of this planet (to the extent we have any influence on it at all, which obviously we do).....

reply to post by DelayedChristmas
since God has allowed you to choose right or wrong so your will can be considered as God's will because of his permission. but God's will is far superior than anyone else so he can alter however it wills. for example all of us will die someday even if we do not will it ! but God's will. yes you are free to suicide because God's has allowed you to choose but you can not choose the consequences !!!