Christianity is "the beast".

reply to post by MrCobb


The bride is the new jerusalem. Give me a scripture that says that the body of Christ is the bride.

reply to post by MrCobb

wow, thanks for your detailed answer. you seem to have a great amount of knowledge about these religious topics. i am interested in your opinion about a specific concept. what is your take on the relation of god-devil, angel-demon, shepherd-wolf ?

Originally posted by guitarplayer
The sabath was and is saturday. Not sun-day. The sun-day resurection was insituted by Constitine to gain all the sun worshipers.

Okay clearly you're not interested in rational discussion, but wallowing in ignorance. That's fine; the good news is, it's going to pass, you're going to be fine; we just need to burn down the phoney world within which you've unintentionally imprisoned your mind.

The "carnal" sabbath is of course the 7th day, the last day of the week; and no one has said otherwise (so why are you even talking about it?) we were talking about the fulfillment of the DAY OF FIRSTFRUITS in the resurrection timing of Jesus- which despite your ignorant claim- WAS the day, and it occured AFTER the sabbath:

Le 23:10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:
11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

And this is why Jesus is called:

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

And this is why this occured WHEN IT DID just like this is why the crucifixion occurred when it did- specifically on PASSOVER, and this is why the baptism of fire/holy spirit occurred specifically when it did on PENTECOST.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mr 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week

Now, some "Judaizer" has come along and convinced you to believe that this means the "sabbath" when it clearly doesn't. And the reason he has done this is no doubt to get you to "rest on the carnal 7th day of the carnal week" like the Jews do, or else you aren't a Christian. And what he has done is caused you to "eat from the forbidden tree" (which is an analogue of THE LAW which WORKS OF THE LAW (fruit analogue) brings DEATH). The carnal sabbath is JUST A SHADOW of the TRUE SABBATH/REST found IN GRACE whereby one CEASES FROM WORKS OF THE LAW which are profitless for salvation.

Also I'll point out the obvious that there is no possible way for you to know when the carnal sabbath actually takes place. You have no idea whatsoever if somewhere along the line the last day of the week got switched around by someone- intentionally or not. That is to say, the day we call "saturday" may not even have been the same "7th day" the was once the "last day" of the week for the Israelites under the old covenant. So good luck with all that nonsense and go "Judaize" in some other thread.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
reply to post by MrCobb

 

The bride is the new jerusalem. Give me a scripture that says that the body of Christ is the bride.

Yes, the bride is indeed New Jerusalem. That doesn't mean that the bride is ONLY CALLED NEW JERUSALEM you buffoon. That's like saying Jesus can't be the Son of God because He's the Messiah. "Wait! If Jesus is the Messiah- then who is the King of Israel?!" Crimeny- I KNOW you are capable of better thinking than this; stop degrading yourself to such an embarassing extreme. So who is the BRIDE?

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Well, who is Paul talking to? Christians? What is he doing? Espousing them to one husband? Who's getting married? Christians? Whose the bride?

Jer 2:32 Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.

Re 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And what is NEW JERUSALEM? A city? With what foundation?

Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Sound familiar? To you, probably not; to me, yes:

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Getting through the haze of ingorance yet? So you tell me, who is the bride?

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by MrCobb

 

wow, thanks for your detailed answer. you seem to have a great amount of knowledge about these religious topics. i am interested in your opinion about a specific concept. what is your take on the relation of god-devil, angel-demon, shepherd-wolf ?

There's a lot of correlating information on these ideas, obviously: and we can explore these things to some pretty incredible depths; but what I'd like to do is just touch on the surface, as it were: I'll not cite much scripture so as to streamline the information, but at any point you can say "elaborate with scripture" and I'll do that. Otherwise:

God is the concept we call "understanding" and Satan is the concept we call "ignorance"; anything that expresses this idea is expressing God or Satan. If I say "the sky is blue" then I am expressing God into reality; I am manifesting God through myself. If I say "the sky is green" then I'm manifesting Satan. This is why Jesus called Peter "Satan" when Peter expressed an unwillingness to see Jesus go to Jerusalem: Jesus was just saying "you're ignorant of what must come to pass": this is also why we call Jesus "the perfect expression of God" and "all the fulness of God manifest": because everything He did was an expression of understanding, perfectly expressing truth at all times, without variance- never once expressing ignorance. We fall short of this because we are yet imperfect and are in the process of becoming perfect, and attaining that perfect understanding. In the interim of this, we're going to express confusion and ignorance because we haven't fully come to "the birth" as it were.

Now, the Lord won't have ignorance in front of His eyes- it's like He says "Get that 'Hooney Boo Boo[or, insert any absurd human nonsense here]' garbage out of my sight, I'm not going to watch that nonsense": but to bring us into being, He already knows the process will begin with us being, well, ignorant and confused. So He made this Limbo-state in between non-existence and reality (or, supra-reality if one wants to call this stage of creation 'reality') where He could interact with us by the Mediator in order to bring us into the reality with Him; and to "burn up" all of the ignorance and imperfection along the way so, when He gets here, everything will be cool, and there won'y be any 'Honey Boo Boo' nonsense going on. Now, this is a crude analogy but hopefully you get the point.

Now, "the devil" is a little different in that this is the idea of anything that "accuses" us; which for us, is our shortcomings, the imperfections that make us lament "why can I not just stop doing such and such" and it is the LAW (which is good, and the standard of perfection) but which is NOT good for us to "try to attain" at this point because we aren't perfect yet. So in the process of becoming perfect, we begin to understand that we are NOT YET perfect (we understand this through the LAW- which is the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL): so the LAW is basically like the Lord saying "this is the standard of perfection toward which you are BECOMING) but when He gives us that standard, then men grab it and say "oh no oh no! you MUST BE THIS RIGHT NOW or else oh the horror! the horror!" and so, in their confusion, men start going around trying to cause people to BE PERFECT when they CANNOT YET DO THIS; and it is this mindset that accuses us; and this is why Jesus said to the Jews:

Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Moses being the LAW analogue; that is, the LAW that the preachers were saying YOU MUST ATTAIN TO THIS LAW IMMEDIATELY! does nothing but accuse people and make them feel worthless. Much as if you are an unfinished house with no roof, and someone reveals to you "a perfect house keeps out the rain" Now, this should tell you, the house, simply that you're not yet perfect. But then one comes and gets your mind thinking "this house is not perfect and it is worthless and must be demolished" when in reality, no unfinished house is able to keep out the rain- but we do not demolish the house because we know it is being perfected in time, and THEN it will abide by the proverbial "law of the perfect house" (ie keeps out the rain)

So, it is the standard of perfection being revealed that gives the occasion for ignorant men to make people feel bad by accusing them as though the SHOULD BE perfect- when this is the goal of the then, not the reality of the now. Hopefully this makes sense:

Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Ro 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

^This is why Paul here is drawing on the Eden analogue; this is what is playing out in Eden: basically, the two trees are LAW and GRACE and the Lord is saying, don't eat from the one tree (law) because it will kill your spirit when you realize you're naked- wait for the other tree (grace) because that is the fruit that is establishing you out of the interim and into your perfect state which when such perfection is attained THROUGH GRACE then you will be perfect.

About angels and demons- you have to take into account that the problem isn't in the words themselves but how we understand the words; and these two words have been pretty misunderstood. For instance, would it surprise you if I told you the bible calls the "messenger of the Lord" satan? Or that men call Jesus a "demon" (and this is not meant offensively by them, or by me- it's just misunderstanding of the concepts perpetuated by "Christianity":

Nu 22:22 And God’s anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an SATAN against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

Acts 17:18 18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange DEMONS: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.

This is what the words are, you'll usually see them translated "adversary" and "gods" respectively, but this is what they are actually appearing as in the text. But in the end, an "angel" or a "demon" is anything that is serving God in some manner. Would it surprise you if I told you trhat the very antichrist himself is the servant of the Lord? That the being typically known as "THE Satan" is the servant of the Lord? That there's nothing in heaven or earth that isn't serving the Lord? It's just a matter of understanding what you are doing, and that what you are doing is not of your own doing at all but it is all God moving things to bring to pass a specific GENERATION of BEING. The only thing that you are doing that is of your own, are the thoughts and intents you have. Those are all yours- but the actions are not: this is why these things are said:

Ge 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Isa 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. 6 I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. 7 Howbeit he meaneth not so, neither doth his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off nations not a few. (Read this whole chapter- it's also about the coming antichrist: in fact if you read Daniel 4 you'll see a preview of when the Satan finally realizes everything he has been doing has been God all along- only his THOUGHTS were his own)

But you see how it is God that is directing the actions, the only thing that is theirs is the THOUGHTS and INTENTS. So if a man is sitting around a millionaire and thinking to himself "Boy, I'm so glad I worked so hard all my life and got all this stuff; I truly deserve this, because I've done so much to deserve..." WRONG! He has done NOTHING and EVERYTHING everyone HAS or DOES NOT HAVE has ZERO to do with ANYTHING they have done or not done. It is the Lord who is giving or not giving, and He is doing this to bring everyone into this understanding that our own actions are not our own: He is the one who is doing them, He is the one who is building the house, He is the one who is creating. Our time to work freely will come when we are perfect; but for now, we are just along for the ride in order to LEARN HOW TO ACT and how NOT to act; so when we get to where He is, all of the nonsense is OVER. Because, like I said, the Lord will NOT watch 'Jersey Shore'

Mr Cobb, while we may disagree on things here and there, I must say that whatever you have posted here has been very interesting.

You have a rather unique approach to theology.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Mr Cobb, while we may disagree on things here and there, I must say that whatever you have posted here has been very interesting.

You have a rather unique approach to theology.

Oh trust me, I'm looking at your posts too and thinking the same thing. I;m actually seeing a few people that impress me- which is rare. It's really refreshing to tell you the truth.

I've always sensed what you're saying but I need someone to show me how to understand it that way.

Originally posted by Hillarie
I've always sensed what you're saying but I need someone to show me how to understand it that way.

Alrighty then; now be sure to check out my thread in P&P called "timing is everything"- because it is.

There's one quick thing I wanted to tag on to what I was saying. If you look at 2 Thes 2 you'll see the warning of the "coming of the son of perdition with all power" to deceive the people into worshipping him; and you'll see the idea of a "strong delusion" being sent on people so they believe it. Consider what I'm saying here: the Christians are being falsely taught to "look for" carnal things- like microchips and whatnot. They're being lead to believe that carnal Israel over in the middle east is "chosen by God" and that Islam is "the beast" and they're looking for carnal armies to attack Israel and be destroyed by Christ and the second coming; right?

Now, I'm saying, all of this is warped carnal understanding- they should be understanding these things spiritually- a spiritual mark, a spiritual war, a spiritual "armageddon" (which in reality is when all the world tries to "gather against" the elect in a vain attempt to get them to bow to the "terrible image" ie the false prophet, false Jesus, the son of perdition).

So, I've no doubt that we'll see a carnal war, and carnal Israel being "threatened" by Islam; I don't even doubt that the Christians will all be seeing this carnal warring and shouting "Armageddon Armageddon!" and that the antichrist will come to "save Israel" from the "Islamic beast", and get everyone to go "prophecy fulfilled!" and thereby, fools them all. So I also don't completely rule out a "microchip mark" (but I doubt it will happen); and it's up to you how to face that possiblity. I myself, as stated, would laugh at the nonsensical notion, knowing that it is meaningless. But, it would provide a good "strong delusion" for mislead Christians to start shouting MARK MARK MARK so when the false Jesus does show up, he can "defeat" the "beast" and such and make it LOOK like he really is Jesus, and the "prophesies" have been fulfilled. But it will be a lie, and the "prophesies" are all just him fulfilling the false carnal understanding that he duped them all into believing via false teachers.

Now, this could all be incredibley confusing, and- had God in His infinite wisdom not put the specified day-month timing in the scripture it could full well deceive everyone on the planet. However, He has put the day-month timing in there, and even if you've misunderstood the correlated symbols and such, the day-month timing is super-practical and super-simple. I promise you this false Jesus is coming with "all his host" on the 10th day of the 10th month just like the physical king of confusion did. And this is precisley how you can 100% accurately and without fail know exactly who he really is. And thereby, through the knowledge of God, escape the snare of his deception.

Now, in case you're still under the impression that "no man knows the day or the hour" actually means it is impossible to ever have this knowledge, read this 3rd part of what it really means (in a nutshell, no man can know these things, but the Father does know them and is freely revealing them by His Word):

no man knows... but the Father does

Trust you me "no man knows" is going to be written on the tombstone of "Christianity" and anyone you see desparately trying to get you to ignore the plain and practical timing information in the bible is 100% a false prophet and not on the Lord's side.

I'll post a little more about the horns and heads and such in a small space of time. For now: about the 10 horns, 2 horns and 7 heads, here's a small bit:

Mt 20:24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Mr 10:41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.

Mr 3:17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he surnamed them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder:

About "the seven":

Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Ac 21:8 And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.

So, the 12 apostles (the 10 + the 2: hint- correlary to 10 tribes of north house Israel, and 2 tribes of south house Judah) had the 7 evangelists appointed. More later.

Anyone care to venture an idea on these 10 horns/2 horns/7 mountains/ red dragon symbols before I correlate the info and reveal the answer?

Hint: the 10 were moved against the 2.

Did I mention that "Christianity" is the beast? First let's comprehend "spiritual bloodlines":

In the OT you see a man named "Israel" and this man has 12 biological offsrping, called the 12 princes of Israel: these twelve princes beget children (one of whom is always the chief prince of the tribe they represent). You find that "princes" are prophetic "horns" by way of the angel in the book of Daniel. So "Israel" has 12 "horns" as it were.

Now then, this group is divided into 2: called House Israel, consisting of 10 "horns" and becoming the "dominion" of 7 "mountains" (you will also by way of Daniel understand that "mountains" are "kingdoms") and these are the 7 mountains:

De 7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girga#es, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
Ac 13:19 And when he had subjected seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot.

So, 7 nations in subjection to the 10-princes of House Israel, the "dominion" of Israel:

Ps 114:2 Judah was his sanctuary, and Israel his dominion.

7 heads with 10 horns, and 10 crowns: the 10 princes of Israel

Second beast: sanctuary of Judah: 2 princes of 2 tribes, 2 horns; the sanctuary of Judah.

Now, this is according to the "carnal" way of "begetting offspring"; but when we get to Jesus, we start getting a "spiritual" betting of children- not by the carnal seed, but by the spiritual seed: the Word of God:

Lu 8:11 The seed is the word of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Ah, then; now this man Jesus is the spiritual Israel as He says "I am the TRUE vine" and as it were written of the false vine, the carnal seed of men:

Jer 2:21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Now, you find that Jesus- spiritual Israel- chooses 12 apostles. Ever wonder why? These are the sons of Israel through the seed of the Word: and thus the 12 apostles are the 12 sons of Israel- spiritually. These apostles then go forth spreading the "seed" and "begetting spiritual children" so that, in the end, every Christian can trace his "spiritual bloodline" back to one of the 12 (and ultimately to the One: Jesus) just like any of the carnal 12 can trace their biological lineage back to one of the 12.

These 12 horns (10 + 2) are the 12 apostles, the 12 princes of Israel: the 10, signifying the dominion of Israel and the 2 (James and John) signifying the sanctuary of Judah. Thus we have here at Rev 13 a picture of spiritual Israel (Christianity) right before the coming of the King of Confusion to the siege. It should here be noted that, as the carnal Israel had become a warped image of truth in the days of the prophets, so too does spiritual Israel corrupt itself into a warped image which destroys the earth.

Now, this is not to say that the 12 apostles were not righteous by Christ, but this imagery is to signify to the reader the END of the kingdom of which they are the 12 princes. The 7 mountains in this sense are the 7 evangelists:

Ac 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
Ac 21:8 And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.

As previously noted, the "man" whose counted number is 666 is MY RISEN LORD: which signfies Jesus, but here signfying the "false prophet" of the "warped" sanctuary and "wounded" dominion. This, again, is not to be understood as conveying that Jesus and the 12 and the 7 are evil; but to singify that their IMAGE would become corrupted and presented to the world as the "true image" of Christianity. Next we will factor in this "whore of confusion" who sits upon the 7 mountains, and "bewitches" the world with her lying "merchandise"

reply to post by MrCobb

singify that their IMAGE would become corrupted and presented to the world as the "true image" of Christianity. Next we will factor in this "whore of confusion" who sits upon the 7 mountains, and "bewitches" the world with her lying "merchandise"

I've been suspecting for a long time now that the "bad guys" in revelations are none other than who Christians assume are the "good guys" i.e - the modern state of Israel and Christianity.

The whore is revealed to be Jerusalem, or something representing Jerusalem... for the simple reason that both the whore and Jerusalem are accused of having the blood of holy men and saints. The whore also rides the beast... which itself has something to do with Israel...this meaning the end times villains are Israel itself. Christians don't seem to be open to the idea of Revelations identifying as "the enemy" the very entities they believe as the "good guys".

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by MrCobb

 

singify that their IMAGE would become corrupted and presented to the world as the "true image" of Christianity. Next we will factor in this "whore of confusion" who sits upon the 7 mountains, and "bewitches" the world with her lying "merchandise"

I've been suspecting for a long time now that the "bad guys" in revelations are none other than who Christians assume are the "good guys" i.e - the modern state of Israel and Christianity.

The whore is revealed to be Jerusalem, or something representing Jerusalem... for the simple reason that both the whore and Jerusalem are accused of having the blood of holy men and saints. The whore also rides the beast... which itself has something to do with Israel...this meaning the end times villains are Israel itself. Christians don't seem to be open to the idea of Revelations identifying as "the enemy" the very entities they believe as the "good guys".

Exactly. Indeed they fulfil this word:

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

As you well note, this is not intentional- the think they are "the good guys"; but they are wrong, it is this final revelation to them that they are in fact "the bad guys" that causes the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" Jesus spoke of when refering to the "fire" to be "revealed" "in that day"

But the truth is that this is all purposed by God to the reconciling of the world; just as the apostle writes:

Ro 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Speaking of the "fall" of the "carnal Jews" as being the "riches" of the "carnal Gentiles" in that the Gentiles were not privy to the covenant with the Lord through the Jews- and as such were "strangers" to the house of God; but through the fall of the Jews, that door was opened to the Gentiles. In the same way (that which was is that which will be) the "fall" of the Christians (spiritual Jews) will be the "riches" of the unbelievers (spiritual Gentiles) who are now outisde the covenant of life, but will then have the door opened for them during the 1,000 year "day of the Lord" and "all the nations will flow" to this house upon the mountain, as written.

But we see then also this:

how much more their fulness? In that while they may indeed fall to the riches of the unbelievers, God will also provide them the same open door of the new covenant through which to return "in fulness" so that it all works out in the end "all in all"

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.