Can the F-35 Win South Korea over?

There is a race in South Korea to build a replacement jet for the F-16. The competition is the F-35, the F-15 SE (Silent Eagle) and the Eurofighter. You would think the F-35 would have this race in the bank. Sadly it does not seem so. The F-35 is super expensive and have a whole host of problems. The new F-15 may look like the old 1980s fighter, but has been respun with modern sensors, some stealth capabilities and a presumed much lower price tag. Who will win?

thediplomat.com...

The Eurofighter is probably the most mission versatile and best value for money. But they always buy US, so I guess it will be the F15 SE

Originally posted by michael1983l
The Eurofighter is probably the most mission versatile and best value for money. But they always buy US, so I guess it will be the F15 SE

Thats debatable. Its the best dogfighter of the three. Its air to ground capabilities are still limited though. There are aspirations and plans but thats not the same as a fielded capability. Even the Rafale is further along the multi-role development road than Eurofighter.

The most versatile as a platform right out of the box is the silent eagle. It also has the advantage that the Koreans already operate advanced F-15 variants so the logistics and support arrangements are already mature.

reply to post by justwokeup


I don't know if the Silent Eagle will match their requirements closely enough though. I mean, you can put some stealth characteristics on an F-15, but the F-15 is still going to look pretty big on radar. There's only so much you can do. From what I've read of the RFP, they are looking for the F-35, but don't want to pay the price of the F-35 if they don't have to. They have been to the US looking at the F-35 simulators, and flying in the chase plane on test missions, watching.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by justwokeup

 

I don't know if the Silent Eagle will match their requirements closely enough though. I mean, you can put some stealth characteristics on an F-15, but the F-15 is still going to look pretty big on radar. There's only so much you can do. From what I've read of the RFP, they are looking for the F-35, but don't want to pay the price of the F-35 if they don't have to. They have been to the US looking at the F-35 simulators, and flying in the chase plane on test missions, watching.

Yeah, a lot will depend on the exact key user requirements in the Stealth Domain. Boeing claim they can make the Eagle as stealthy as the export variants of the F-35 are allowed to be. So the difference may not be as large as if it was compared to a domestic spec F-35.

It also depends what weighting is put on what requirements in the RFP, all we can do is speculate. Technical capability may not be the dominant selection criteria.

reply to post by justwokeup


I suspect that unless they're totally reworking the internal structure and skin of the F-15, Boeing is letting their PR people run away with things. The F-15SE still has a giant flat wing that reflects radar beautifully, and nice right edges that reflect radar nicely, and canting the tails outward helps, but they'll still reflect radar....

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by justwokeup

 

I suspect that unless they're totally reworking the internal structure and skin of the F-15, Boeing is letting their PR people run away with things. The F-15SE still has a giant flat wing that reflects radar beautifully, and nice right edges that reflect radar nicely, and canting the tails outward helps, but they'll still reflect radar....

Yeah thats possible. The published concept of the SE just involves coatings, tail redesign and conformal bays but there may be more changes than publicly announced. Or it may be hyperbole and they intend winning on other factors.

They must think they have some hope given how the RFP is structured or they wouldn't bid. It costs money to enter one of these competitions. They wouldnt enter if it was hopeless. Same goes for the Eurofighter consortium.

Now, whether the Koreans were entirely honest in the RFP about their selection criteria is an entirely different matter

reply to post by justwokeup


Oh, they have a chance. I just don't think it's as good as they are proclaiming it to be. I suspect that they think they can win the contract, then go "whoops! We just have to tinker a little bit here", and fix it in post contract development.

The F-35 isn't all that great. At the moment, the cost per unit is far too high. And it leaves a larger radar signature than the F-22.

South Korea doesn't really need something like the F-35. They would probably be better off with an F-15 variant. Something fast flying and hard hitting.

reply to post by allenidaho


Larger than the F-22 is kind of open though. The F-22 RCS is miniscule, so just about everything has a larger RCS.

Personally, I think from a cost stand point, the F-15SE is their best bet, but only if Boeing can keep the costs under control, and deliver what they promised.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by allenidaho

 

Larger than the F-22 is kind of open though. The F-22 RCS is miniscule, so just about everything has a larger RCS.

Personally, I think from a cost stand point, the F-15SE is their best bet, but only if Boeing can keep the costs under control, and deliver what they promised.

What's the South Korean mission? If they are defensive or ground support in a war against North Korea, then doesn't the F15SE seem better? If they need to get air superiority against China then they need USA and F-22's, not a F-35. What is the F-35's mission, other than making money for contractors?

reply to post by mbkennel


The F-35 is designed to complement the F-15E, do some of the A-10 mission, as well as the F-16 mission. So basically it's an F-15E on steroids.