Mig-25 vs SR-71

Swedish pilots in the 80s used to start at 8000 meters altitude and accelerate north to mach 1.35, then climb with between 3-5 degrees angle at continous acceleration on an opposite heading to the Blackbird that was heading south. The encounters were very fast and dangerous said Viggen fighter pilot Per-Olof Eldh. One of the encounters occured the 9th of Januari 1986. He got a radar lock with Skyflash at maximum range. When the Blackbird passed about 2000 meters above him he could see the dark grey aircraft. Per experienced 5 encounters. Debriefings concluded successful shot down if they would had fired. The Blackbirds usually flew from Germany always on the same route over Denmark then to the right to Borholm then north as far east as possible along the Baltic Sea. Over Åland they slowed down to Mach 2.5 and turned back south increasing to Mach 3 again passing to the west in international air space between the Swedish large islands Gotland and Öland.

For the full story (In Swedish only) read here:
www.mil.se...

reply to post by mxboy15u


the point here is that the blackbird was too old,carried no weapons,wasn't built to be a fighter or interceptor and moreover when the MiG-25s were around it had no problem in dodging them but with the arrival of the MiG-31 the game went upto a new level and the blackbird (i am sorry) just couldn't compete at this level hence it became essential to take this expensive(its fuel was costlier than the costliest you can imagine) bird off the skies and satellites could to the same job without any loss of human life

Originally posted by flankerh
reply to post by mxboy15u

 

the point here is that the blackbird was too old,carried no weapons,wasn't built to be a fighter or interceptor and moreover when the MiG-25s were around it had no problem in dodging them but with the arrival of the MiG-31 the game went upto a new level and the blackbird (i am sorry) just couldn't compete at this level hence it became essential to take this expensive(its fuel was costlier than the costliest you can imagine) bird off the skies and satellites could to the same job without any loss of human life

The arrival of the MiG-31 had nothing to do with the retirement of the SR-71. Setting the combat capabilities of the MiG-31 aside for just one second, the simple fact is that for decades the SR-71 has not intruded on Russian airspace, therefore the MiG-31 is not a threat. And since the radically-downgraded export version of the MiG-31 is not selling, its not likely that any US recce aircraft would need to worry about bumping into a Foxhound in the third world.

While the Blackbird possessed both speed and (limited) stealth, it also possess a tremendous (and highly classified) electronic warfare suite, which severely degraded the electronics of Russian AAW and SAM systems. Do not blindly believe that all those SAMs fired at Blackbirds missed simply because they flew too high and too fast - it was the comprehensive ECM suites, both barrage and self-screening, that allowed the SR-71 to have such a damage-free career. Read up on the contributions that Adolf Tolkachev provided to the US regarding Soviet AAW and SAM radars, and you will understand why the Blackbird was never shot down. As with most great jet aircraft, it's not the airframe or engines that make the bird - it's whats under the skin that makes it great.

However, that all being said, I'm sure that any SR-71 pilot, given the opportunity, would wisely give any modern MiG-31 a respectfully wide berth, given an encounter. You may be good at getting the Bear, but someday the Bear will, indeed, get you.....

I don't beieve that satellites provide everthing the Blackbird used to provide. And I also do not believe that UAVs are filling that gap either. I'd say there is at least a 75% probability that there is a manned, XVLO platform that is quietly filling the gap that was created whent the SR-71 was retired. The Blacbird is simply too big (RCS-wise) and too expensive to keep in the air.

Originally posted by Pyros

Originally posted by flankerh
reply to post by mxboy15u

 

While the Blackbird possessed both speed and (limited) stealth, it also possess a tremendous (and highly classified) electronic warfare suite, which severely degraded the electronics of Russian AAW and SAM systems. Do not blindly believe that all those SAMs fired at Blackbirds missed simply because they flew too high and too fast - it was the comprehensive ECM suites, both barrage and self-screening, that allowed the SR-71 to have such a damage-free career. Read up on the contributions that Adolf Tolkachev provided to the US regarding Soviet AAW and SAM radars, and you will understand why the Blackbird was never shot down. As with most great jet aircraft, it's not the airframe or engines that make the bird - it's whats under the skin that makes it great.

However, that all being said, I'm sure that any SR-71 pilot, given the opportunity, would wisely give any modern MiG-31 a respectfully wide berth, given an encounter. You may be good at getting the Bear, but someday the Bear will, indeed, get you.....

Please provide us with these sources that state what your saying, because from as far as I know rhe SR-71 was intercepted coming close to Russian borders NUMEROUS times by MiG-31/Su-27's, it has been reported in "AirForce Monthy" and "Combat Aircraft" , Magazines.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Lambo Rider]

Originally posted by Lambo Rider
Please provide us with these sources that state what your saying, because from as far as I know rhe SR-71 was intercepted coming close to Russian borders NUMEROUS times by MiG-31/Su-27's, it has been reported in "AirForce Monthy" and "Combat Aircraft" , Magazines.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Lambo Rider]

please provide links to this information as well. I have never heard this.

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by Lambo Rider
Please provide us with these sources that state what your saying, because from as far as I know rhe SR-71 was intercepted coming close to Russian borders NUMEROUS times by MiG-31/Su-27's, it has been reported in "AirForce Monthy" and "Combat Aircraft" , Magazines.

[edit on 21-12-2007 by Lambo Rider]

please provide links to this information as well. I have never heard this.

1. I read this with my own eyes, at the store an "AirForce Monthly" magazine a 2006 issue, (what month I forgot) It was about the Su-27's
2. The "Combat Aircraft" issue of I think it's the June or July 2007 issue with the MiG-31 on the Front cover talks about the MiG-31's intercetionS of the SR-71, I don't know if those pages in those magazines are found on the internet but I'll look.
BTW if by know you haven't learned the U.S.'s "tactics" of achieving a "Mighty than Russia" image then listen, the reason you haven't heard of this is because the U.S. likes to use "media trickery" to make it's self look better than Russia, this is WHY you didn't hear this, trying to use my words against me will get you nowhere, you thought I didn't catch on to what you were implying did ya

[edit on 22-12-2007 by Lambo Rider]

reply to post by longbow


Wrong. We flew over the USSR during the "Maryjane Clipper" missions. SAMS were fired at the Blackbird but with a quick vector heading it could outrun it because the SAM couldn't turn to lock on it.

There's one factor that the Foxbat vs Blackbird discussion needs to keep in mind: the Foxbat has to have impeccable timing to catch a Blackbird en route to or from its destination. Blackbirds are capable of keeping up Mach 3 speeds for extended periods, while Foxbats have to choose a moment to do a hectic Mach 3 sprint towards a target.

Also, remember that the Blackbird is stealthy, so it's a matter of finding the 'Bird first, and then lining up a shot just so that the Blackbird can't evade.

So, is it possible? Maybe, just like detecting a stealth jet from, say, the ground. Can it be done? Only if you're really, really, REALLY lucky and really, really, REALLY skilled.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by Reverie Planetarian]

[edit on 1/3/2008 by Reverie Planetarian]

BLackbird is stealthy! ok agreed but did u ever compare the RCS of the stealthy blackbird and non stealthy foxbat i bet the foxbat will have much reduced RCS than the blackbird,so much for the stealth aspect of the black bird and why wouldn't the satellites not provide you with all that the blackbird provided it was just a recon A/C so the only thing you might miss with the satellite is the thrill of flying at mach 3

Personally, I have heard inforation that the SR-71 can theoretically go between mach 6 to mach 14, I'm not sure exactly, the real top speed is classified information that no one has access to. There isn't much that could catch one, I think that if it was going top speed it could probably out run any missle fired at it unless it was coming straight at it. It could definately outrun any aircraft sent up after it.

The other problem with trying to fire a missle at it is that the skin of the aircraft absorbs radar signals thus making the plane stealth, the missle wouldn't be able to lock onto the craft. The SR-71 is essentailly a rocket you can land.

The MiG-31 could shut SR-71 down by its long range missile, but a precisely deploy must be acquired predictably.

Is this a joke? There is no way the MIG can keep up or intercept the SR-71... The SR71 cruises at mach 3.3, top speed is more like mach 5.5 or higher... The SR71 went from New York ot Paris in 1, hour 56 minutes..

3,624 in less than two hours and this was an unclassified flight... BTW, the SR71 had a cousin in the CIA, a single seater which was much faster....

A long range missle would be out run or just evaded... The Soviets have nothing even close and the new Lockheed Aurora is superior to the SR71 technology.

This is like saying TaTa Motors is going to compete against Ferrari in F1.



[edit on 1-10-2008 by GrndLkNatv]

[edit on 1-10-2008 by GrndLkNatv]

The A-12 was not much faster than the SR-71. They were almost the exact same airframe. The SR-71 had a second cockpit for a sensor operator. The MiG-31 HAS "intercepted" the SR-71 many times. All it has to do for a successful intercept is make the SR-71 change their flight plan. It doesn't have to keep up.

As for the top speed it's only in the Mach 3 range, the Sr-71 and A-12 never even got close to Mach 5.5.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Based on the various sources I have the A-12 was set at 3.35 Mach and the SR-71 at 3.3 . Im not sure what the listed versus the actuall speed for the YF-12 was but ill bet those cut down chines slowed it a bit.

As you point out Mach 5 never happend

In Ben Riches auto biography he mentions that a A-12 (I think) had a malfunction in its airspeed intake and the craft was flown briefly at mach 3.46. When the plane landed and the error discovered inspection of the plane showed the wiring in the wings had been burned almost to the point of failure. The structure of the airframe could not sustain Mach 5+ under any circumstances


[edit on 10/1/08 by FredT]

Originally posted by FredT
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Based on the various sources I have the A-12 was set at 3.35 Mach and the SR-71 at 3.3 . Im not sure what the listed versus the actuall speed for the YF-12 was but ill bet those cut down chines slowed it a bit.

As you point out Mach 5 never happend

In Ben Riches auto biography he mentions that a A-12 (I think) had a malfunction in its airspeed intake and the craft was flown briefly at mach 3.46. When the plane landed and the error discovered inspection of the plane showed the wiring in the wings had been burned almost to the point of failure. The structure of the airframe could not sustain Mach 5+ under any circumstances


[edit on 10/1/08 by FredT]

In the early days they were very careful at the speeds achived and I think that the top speed they acheived was slightly above 3.2 and very few of pilots admitted to more than 3.24.

I belive that Ken Collins admitted to 3.3 in the A-12 and that the NASA IP took several of his guest riders to 3.26 or 3.27.

It was my clear understanding that the temperature profile steepened so rapidly above 3.2 that pushing 3.25 could easily exceed the 427 degrees CIT limit and could cause serious damage to the engines.
Mach 5- No Chance and I dont think that Mach 3.5 was every acheived.

All of the Blackbird performance data has been declassified.

The maximum design cruise speed for all variants (A-12, YF-12, M-21, and SR-71) was Mach 3.2. Speeds slightly exceeding Mach 3.3 have been recorded during test flights. The speed was limited by structural temperature restrictions (compressor inlet temperature had to remain below 427 degrees C). The fastest NASA Blackbird flights reached Mach 3.27.

Fastest known flights:
YF-12A (60-6936) – Mach 3.14 (2,070 mph), USAF, official, 1 May 1965
SR-71B (61-7956) – Mach 3.27 (2,158 mph), NASA, unofficial, 14 December 1995
A-12 (60-6928) – Mach 3.29 (2,171 mph), CIA, unofficial, 8 May 1965
SR-71A (61-7958) – Mach 3.32 (2,193 mph), USAF, official, 28 July 1976


The Blackbirds were designed to fly as high as 90,000 feet, but typically operated between 70,000 and 80,000 feet. The recommended maximum altitude for the SR-71 was 85, 000 feet. The A-12 could more easily attain 90,000 feet because the airframe was lighter (one crew station, shorter fuselage, less equipment).

Highest known flights:
YF-12A (60-6936) – 80,257 feet, USAF, official, 1 May 1965
SR-71B (61-7956) – 84,700 feet, NASA, unofficial, 18 October 1994
SR-71A (61-7962) – 85,068 feet, USAF, official, 28 July 1976
SR-71A (61-7953) – 89,650 feet, USAF, unofficial, 1968 (CAT II flight test)
A-12 (60-6932) – 90,000 feet, CIA, unofficial, 14 August 1965

Maybe the SR was replaced when it was retired. No one knows how fast it would go except those who were around the program. It is funny that it's fastest flight was it's last flight. Go figure!

I saw an intervew with a Mig-25 pilot and he said they would be out in front of it and know where it was going and NEVER saw it. Think about it, a normal fighter can go Mach 2.5 and to think the SR only went 3.3 is laughable.

It is funny watching people quote what has been written about the SR like it is actual factual information.

reply to post by P_38lightning


On paper the MiG-25 Foxbat has a top speed of around .1 mach faster than that of the Sr-71 Blackbird. However, speeds above mach 3 destroy the Foxbat's engines. An Egyptian MiG-25 broke mach 3.2 fleeing from Israeli F-4 Phanthoms, but the high speeds made the engines un-repairable. THe Soviets designed the MiG-25 to use it's mach 4.5 Vympel R-40 (AA-6 Acrid) missiles to shoot down fast-flying bombers and recon planes, such as the Sr-71 and XB-70 Valkrye at rages of within 37 miles.

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo


The SR-71 could out maneuver any missile with a slight vector adjustment. A SAM never got close to an SR-71 Blackbird. The SR-71 can maintain at Mach 3.2 for hours on end. It has reached speeds up to Mach 3.5. The The combustion inlet temperature is what keeps the SR-71 from attaining higher speeds. For the time that I spend stationed at Beale AFB., we never had a problem outrunning the MIG-25 aircraft. The MIG-25 couldn't maintain high speeds for any length of time.