Australia’s Nuclear Sub Option: Buy American!

Australia is looking for ways to shrink its defense budget. They must also replace their aging diesel subs that have been a disaster in terms of maintenance costs. One possible solution? Lease American attack submarines. This would cost less then building and designing a whole new weapons platform. It would also give Australia the world's best submarines for a much lower cost then an indigenous submarine. There is no need to refuel, they don't have to come up for air, and would be vastly superior to any other Asian sub. Thoughts?

thediplomat.com...

reply to post by travis911


Does Australia possess any expertise in the development of attack submarines?

Judging by the results of the Collins Class submarines they do not.

Get the subs off of the Americans or at a push the British, who also design and manufacture subs of a very high standard.

The third option is an off-the-shelf purchase or lease of either American Virginia Class or British Astute Class nuclear-powered attack submarines.

These boats are at the cutting edge of submarine technology, offer operational dominance in the Western Pacific till at least 2050 and would deliver powerful deterrence against any serious coercion of Australia in this timeframe.

The Diplomat

We already have the dockyards in SA to build the next generation of attack submarines.

Considering how well Australian engineers adapt and overcome new situations......I would expect big things if the current government does not drag us into the global recession and force us to buy inferior equipment on the international market.

Given the current situation in the south China sea, I don't think that we should be cutting back on military spending.

Originally posted by ollncasino
reply to post by travis911

 

Does Australia possess any expertise in the development of attack submarines?

Judging by the results of the Collins Class submarines they do not.

Try this on for size!

Originally posted by daaskapital
Try this on for size!

Submariners are a secret lot.

Whats not known and will never be is how many times a US or Russian sub commander had gotten a kill with the target never knowing................

Isn't the new British Astute class the most advanced attack sub?

If the Australians attempt to lease American subs, chances are the only offer is going to be for our aging fleet of Los Angeles Class subs. Given that we have 42 of them active and 20 already decommissioned.

It is pretty unlikely that the US would lease a Virginia Class sub, given that they are the newest in the fleet and cost over $2.5 billion each.

If the Australians are willing to settle, maybe it would be a good deal. They do currently only have 6 active submarines, all Collins Class.

The only real problem in this case would be manpower. Of those 6 submarines that the Australians have, they only have enough crewmembers to keep 4 fully operational at any given time.

Originally posted by allenidaho

It is pretty unlikely that the US would lease a Virginia Class sub, given that they are the newest in the fleet and cost over $2.5 billion each.

Is there a dive restriction on the Virginia Class subs over the illegal immigrants welding them together with the wrong welding rods? I remember the Congressional Hearing with that lady saying parts weren't inspected for meeting mil-specs such as valves and they ended up with alot of low quality pieces that failed already.

No dive restrictions. The affected submarines were repaired during a refit period between 2007 - 2009.

Currently, the only major problem with the Virginia Class is some weird problem with the hull coating.

It doesn't matter how adept Australian Engineers are at overcoming problems.

The question is ..have they ever built a operating nuclear reactor. Are there even any operating nuclear reactors in Australia...land based? Not research reactors so called...but reactors putting out electricity to the public??

The question is does Australia have any experience in this ..both engineering and operational.

Do they have the people and budget to keep and maintaiin an operating nuclear reactor...on a submarine??

This represents a huge and expensive undertaking..not only in operation of such a unit but the maintenance as well. Does the Australian Navy have any such experienced people...not just operatiors but maintenance people as well need special expensive training.

Do any of you know what it means to be crapped out!!??



Does Australia have any such pier facilities to handle a nuclear ship?? Nuclear fueled ships require very special pier acomodations..not your standard bill of fare. Nuclear certified and accomodated Drydock facilities as well..not your standard bill of fare.

This is one of the problems with moving a Nimitz Nuclear powered aircraft carrier down to Mayport Naval Station, Florida where previously only conventional boiler fired carriers were stationed. Mayport Naval Station does not have nuclear quality/certified accomodations. These are very specific and certified accomodations and adaptatioins not found in conventional ports of call.

This is knowledge and informations not generally know by the public never exposed to this side of the house.
You are talking here about a couple of years of preparation ..just to get the piers and drydocks ready to accomodate these submarines. This in addition to the time required to train the Engineers/Crews...in reactor operation and maintenance.

I've been around nuclear submarine crews and also surface ship crews..even nuclear surface ship crews. The difference in caliber is visible if one knows for what to look.

Submariners are indeed a strange lot. Throw in nuclear propulsion...wow!!!

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Shminkee Pinkee
Isn't the new British Astute class the most advanced attack sub?

Yes it is. It beats anything else that is out there at present:-

www.telegraph.co.uk...

This is a no brainer!

Australian, with its huge coastline, should have nuclear powered subs.

BUT, there are a few problems here.

1) I beleive the tech is here to build nuclear subs (we had a nuclear weapons program until the mid 70's when it ws dismantled), but we should lease the best the US has in the meantime until ours are built.

2) The navy is struggling to get enough people to fill ranks at the moment let alone an increase in ship size and number of crew required.

If Australia can get it hands on six US type or export type Virginia class sub

U need a full crew of up to 150 and each sub will cost a billion+

The maintenance and operational costs will be MUCH higher with a nuclear sub, not to mention all the trained personnel and facility upgrades needed. Probably not a feasible option.

And evan with the RAN using Mk48 torpedos the 12+ Tomahawk missiles will cost a lot both span and the
The natherland want to use Tomahawks for there warship but don't have the money for them

could be way off on this but is not the part near new Zealand/ Australia sea zone a nuclear free area? could that not limit the patrol area of these subs? germans have some good conventional submarines these days so that could solve the nuclear no go area thingy.

i know they finalized a treaty between NZ and australia in 2004 but could not find a map of the actual boundaries are....www.foreignminister.gov.au... found this with a small map at the bottom so i guess they could still operate nuke subs they would just have to keep them out of NZ waters

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org... related only in the sense that IF they do get nuclear subs they wont be able to arm them with nuclear weapons due to treaty obligations

does seem that submarines would be a good investment for australia to make in this day and age

It the type 212 class and uesd by the Italian navy so an RAN version with longer range is possible? The collins class is a enlarged version of the swedish Vastergotland class from shipbuilder Kockums