punishment, why?

Punishment is used to reinforce a particular accepted ideology or rule. For example, Jail. Criminals get punished and go to jail, so they can come out not wanting to break the law. The similar can be said about rewards also. Rewards can be given to people for doing the right thing. It also reinforces a particular ideology and rule system, albeit, in a positive sense.

reply to post by manykapao


Well, most legal systems today can trace their roots back to Hammurabi's Law Code. He relied heavily on the principle of lex talionis or retaliatory punishments for crimes. The punishment fit the crime. This is where we get "eye for an eye". His and similar legal codes were developed to cope with the stresses of running an empire comprised of dozens of different conquered cultures. Until these vast empires were forged, people tended to live in small self-sufficient communities where everyone shared in the common goal of surviving.

The mixing of cultures brought an imminent need to get everyone to cooperate even though they all had very different outlooks on life.

Our present system of laws and punishments comes more from the Roman and Greek ways of doing things than Hammurabi. The concept of trial by a jury of peers for example originated in Athens.

Speaking of Athens, I think the answer to your question of why we need punishment can be answered by looking at the execution of Socrates. Did you know that more people voted to execute Socrates than voted him guilty of any crime? He was only judged guilty by a very small margin of votes, but then many of the same people who declared him innocent of any crime voted that he should executed.

Even from the very beginning of the legal system, it's clear that punishment is somehow satisfying to the masses I think.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
I think most of the 'punishment' in this country is allll about MONEY!

If it were up to me, i'd give a thief a choice.
A. HUGE monetary fine.
B. Court ordered classes or therapy sessions. Enough to really upset someone's day to day life, and at a cost of about half of A.
C A finger/hand/whatever.

You gave me brain freeze. First you declare that everything about punishment in America is about money. I'll even agree on that point for most of the handling to Non-Violent as well as SOME Violent crime. It's sad and pathetic.

Then though, you go on to suggest as solutions some of the very scams running right now to make the MOST money from the business of crime and punishment. HUGE Monetary fine?? And WHO does this fine go to? That's fair to ask on ALL fines...but never so clearly needing it than when someone suggests it after first having decried a system based on money.

Court ordered therapy sessions? You mean like Anger Management? I've never personally met a man who went through that and came out anything but pissed off...and yeah. the pun is even intentional though not the point. It DOES cost them ..ahem..money and that money has gone to creating a whole new industry of classes, counselors and con-men running the whole system supported now by Judges 'ordering' people to go learn what they didn't care to learn or just CHOSE to break the first part of their lives, which brought them there.


So I agree money is a major issue in private prisons but it's also a scam running the non-inmate type programs and perhaps, far more so. If someone is willing to PAY...there is almost nothing one can't do and feel safe in the knowledge they WILL get away with it. If they DO get caught? Hell...just some money for some classes and it's over anyway. For the POOR people? That minor hassle is a devastating burden and not a single thing more is accomplished by it, IMO.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


And WHO does this fine go to?

YES!! I considered that in my mind when I wrote that, but I couldn't think of a practical solution. Hmm?? Yes the A, B, or C set of consequences wasn't something I gave a whole lot of thought, but there has to be a better way, right? In my mind that solution would of only applied to theft...People steal because they don't have money so they wouldn't go around stealing and saying "ah I'll just pay the hefty fine should i get caught"

I live in a small town w/ our own PD. They are ALL ABOUT fining people. I paid a few over the years...like uninspected vehicel, or not complying with removal of window tint....Stupid stuff...not real 'crime'!!

I don't know the answer Wrabbit, i wish I did!! I was just brain farting...giving out brain freezes Glad you got yours!!!!!!

reply to post by MidnightSunshine
Ahh.. Small towns.. I have to remind myself how different that is and how much of the nation that covers. I'm just in a 'small' city. A little over 100,000...but it's sure enough to lose any of that personal attention a small PD can give.

I think people definitely need to have jail or prison time for the crimes but the way we have it now, it's crazy. That's for sure. A car thief can be in the same cell block as a 25+ murderer. I think there ought to be 2 and only 2 distinctly separate systems for adults. One is very rehabilitation based and a lot closer to the North European model of prison as I've read. Almost decent...while the focus is hard on rehab. No mixing with hard core criminals. Totally different physical facilities.

Those that don't rehab at the point society all agrees enough has been tried ...OR...the violent/predatory criminals go to the other system which is basically what we have now. Gladiator School. They already are what those places turn someone into. No need to keep putting the lower level people into the meat grinder though. They come out the kind of criminal society sends them in to avoid becoming. Crazy!