We Are On The 'Wrong' Side Of History Folks

Before making this thread, I was in the process of putting together a well researched thread on the middle east but I lost faith along the way.

The simple fact of the matter is that NATO and her allies including Israel are the bad guys in this world as it currently stands. That hurts me, given both my grandparents were in the British Army and that I love my country and what the West 'pretends' to stand for. But the sad reality is that history shows how the superpowers are the oppressors.

On the homefront, we are manipulated by a very well oiled political and media machine. It's frightening to see how controlled and manipulated we are- people are fed propaganda to accept wars and we pay taxes to fund them even though the people do not want war.

I recently watched a protest video in the UK before the Iraq war, over a million people (perhaps closer to two million) marched to oppose invading Iraq, but those protests were ignored by the MSM and the WMD lie prevailed as we invaded Iraq and over a million people have perished.

The people who insigated the Iraq war live the lives of luxury, war criminals immune from the law.

Afghanistan has emerged from the 2001 invasion as the biggest opium producer in the world, supplying over 90% of the world's supply. Our soldiers, people fathers and mothers, sons and daughters fought in that war to make sure the biggest drug dealer's in the world stopped the Taliban destroying their racket! My best friend is currently in Afghanistan and it makes me sick and tired.

Our political leaders are currently pledging support to the FSA, many of whom are Al Qaeda, and that funding is coming because the west wants to remain the strongest power in the world.

The means in which the west is trying to preserve it's hegemony takes evil to new limits, I can't get my head around it.

In the US presidential debates, Obama and Romney were gloating over foregin policy, they lack any empathy for the millions affected by their foreign policy decisions- sanctions in Iran affects millions of people- no jobs, lack of food and no imports of medicine, they do not care. No ones cares.

Despite standing for freedom and democracy, what we do in the world is enough to make you ill when you step back and consider what goes on.

It isn't all one way traffic, I am well aware proxy wars are being fought, but when all is weighed up, we are on the 'wrong' side of history, we are the bad guys whether we like it or not.

The worst thing is, the people all over the world are good. This is not an anti American or anti European rant, I love my country, it is a rant against those who use evil to control the world and maintain their hegemony.

reply to post by Wonderer2012

They may come for me someday because of this but...Bravo! Very well said. I couldn't agree more!

I have this discussion with one of my friends all the time, only one because the rest all fall for the same old crap or just dont seem to care. This is the problem really as people seem to care more about some moronic pop star or reality tv star more than they do about innocent lives in places they will never visit.

Excellent post. Very well written, and very true, sad to say.

We as a nation and as a culture are on the wrong side. I often imagine things 100 years from now, and how the US and the UK will be portrayed on the pages of history.

I think back to when I was a kid, and the Vietnam War protesters were vilified, made fun of, and treated badly. Yet, they were on the right side of history, IMO.

It is hard to be part of the side who sees the bigger picture, because we're drowned out by the masses who believe the garbage they're being fed.

It feels like we're watching a slow, horrific train wreck, and there's not a darn thing we can do, except be a witness to a crappy time in history. Sadly enough, every generation gets to witness these wrecks, in one form or another.

People never learn until it's too late.

Frankly, I am disgusted with my country. And I am disgusted with the murderous, treacherous warmongers that continue to be elected into office. I blame my fellow Americans; those Democrats and Republicans that constantly vote for them, and as far as I am concerned, they are complicit. We have been overthrowing governments and murdering thousands upon thousands in the Middle East for over 5 decades now. So if all the Muslims from the four corners of the earth decide to declare jihad against us one day, I can't say I blame them.

I think it can be a little simplistic to separate nations in to good guys and bad guys. Sometimes I ask the question, if not us , who else would have done these things. It all goes back to European colonialism and the drawing of lines into the map and separating continents into nation states. We had no concern whether those lines went through tribal lands of tha native populations. Now we see those factions fighting against each other,

The key issue IMO is the Palestine/Israel ssue. As long as this continues we will never see peace in that region. Another example of European colonialism gone wrong, that we continue to pa the price for.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Wow! Very Well Written! I am in total agreement with You here...... So Sad isn't it? Syx.

After writing this, I'd just like to add it could be any nation that is on the 'wrong side' as has been pointed out. Had Russia (Soviet Union) won the cold war and emerged as the world's only super power, they too would have secured as much resources and control as well.

America and her allies right now are simply in a survival stage where they are scooping up as much power and control as possible before another superpower emerges to challenge them. This notion is not exactly hidden given it was very clearly outlined by the PNAC's 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' which has served as the blueprint for American foreign policy for the 21st century.

What gets me is how they manipulate the home audience into accepting that is how it works because there is no reason for it to be this way. It doesn't have to be this way, there is no need for all the pain and suffering.

One of the main reasons it continues is because those elected into positions of power lack empathy. Watch Hillary Clinton or Mitt Romney discuss foreign policy and they do not associate their decisions with the consequences to human life. They are completely detached from the reality, they just make decisions (or go through with decisions they are 'advised' on) as though the entire world is a massive chess board.

Perhaps if we dumped a few of those politicians into the middle of Damascus for a few days to try and survive amongst the FSA that they fund and support, they might want to change their ways.

Personally, right now, I believe Russia should intervene in Syria and send their army in to clear out the FSA and stop the killing of civilians as what is happening in Syria right now is just awful

The rant I rant everyday.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


the world changes but it never actually changes. people in power are always going to use the same ways to gain and keep that power. do not delude yourself by thinking you are better just because you can comprehend that fact. use that energy to try and resist and/or change things. and i am not trying to sound superior just speaking from experience, sharing what little wisdom i have, lol.

great weapons win great wars, great men wield these weapons, but the nature of the weapon is to destroy. you see great power comes with great responsibility, and this power does not change, but the wielder of it changes. take the greatness from the wielder and the weapon will consume as its nature dictates. when the weapon becomes too great for the wielder to wield, then it falls upon the head of the wielder, only to be picked up again.

I have often wondered the same. Are we really the bad guys? Are we on the wrong side?

Last night I came across a piece of information that chilled me to the bone.

Paul Wolfowitz and the Wolfowitz doctrine. During G.W.Bush administration Wolfowitz was called upon to draft a new foreign policy document. The Wolfowitz foreign policy draft contained very straight forward language for National Defense by the use of unilateral action, preventive and preemptive strikes, toppling regimes, preventing any other country state from becoming a new super power. The emphasis amounts to preventive war to maintain peace and superiority.

While the Wolfowitz draft was considered too harsh, too forward, too aggressive it was then edited by Dick Cheney and Colin Powell (We are all know these two Neo-Cons). The final and implemented document became the Bush Doctrine. The Bush Doctrine as I read it, is merely a rewritten, sugar coated, more palatable, and politically correct version of the Wolfowitz Doctrine... basically one and the same.

Fast forward to today and our current Commander and Chief. While He may claim His foreign policy is His own, events I believe demonstrate otherwise. IMHO the Wolfowitz/Bush Doctrine is in full swing and gaining traction.

One has to question and wonder the sanity of preemptive war to maintain peace and stability, especially when preemptive action is ongoing and there is no peace and creates even less stability.





"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --- Theodore Roosevelt

Originally posted by miner49r
I have often wondered the same. Are we really the bad guys? Are we on the wrong side?

Last night I came across a piece of information that chilled me to the bone.

Paul Wolfowitz and the Wolfowitz doctrine. During G.W.Bush administration Wolfowitz was called upon to draft a new foreign policy document. The Wolfowitz foreign policy draft contained very straight forward language for National Defense by the use of unilateral action, preventive and preemptive strikes, toppling regimes, preventing any other country state from becoming a new super power. The emphasis amounts to preventive war to maintain peace and superiority.

While the Wolfowitz draft was considered too harsh, too forward, too aggressive it was then edited by Dick Cheney and Colin Powell (We are all know these two Neo-Cons). The final and implemented document became the Bush Doctrine. The Bush Doctrine as I read it, is merely a rewritten, sugar coated, more palatable, and politically correct version of the Wolfowitz Doctrine... basically one and the same.

Fast forward to today and our current Commander and Chief. While He may claim His foreign policy is His own, events I believe demonstrate otherwise. IMHO the Wolfowitz/Bush Doctrine is in full swing and gaining traction.

One has to question and wonder the sanity of preemptive war to maintain peace and stability, especially when preemptive action is ongoing and there is no peace and creates even less stability.





"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --- Theodore Roosevelt

Interesting post, you mention presidents not making decisions, well just take a look at Mitt Romney's middle east advisory team-



This is what gets me, most Americans would not know these people. Yet if you vote for Romney, these are the people you are really electing, the 'candidate' is just a puppet. The majority on that list, if not all, are war mongering neo cons who serve the Israeli lobby, not the American people.

In keeping with the topic...

I didn't mean to introduce a derailer, or political debate/controversy concerning the best Presidential candidate. The merits and/or deficits of the current candidates is probably best reserved for it's own thread. Rather my attempt was to isolate one possible event that has lead us down the path we are on.

I feel you are correct though, IMHO it does not matter which candidate wins office, whether Rep. or Dem, choices have been made.. the path seems to be set. Insanity will prevail until logical men with honest leadership presents it's self, … that is unless it becomes too late and we become a Nation seething with blood lust to our own demise.

I would really like to see this thread move up on the boards, I suspect that there are more out there that have a conscience and realize history is being written. How that history will read in the future to come shall be the legacy of the the United States in future generations.