Could Dept of Transportation's new ground shipping rules soon affect our grocery store shelves and

reply to post by woodsmom


That sounds like a shopping list of things that you would want/have a hard time finding or replicating in a SHTF situation. Especially butane lighters, fabrics, various ingredients for cooking from scratch, etc. Hmm...

You can actually make your own vanilla. I believe it is vanilla beans steeped in vodka, but you can google the exact recipes. It should be cheaper to make as well, but it does take time.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Luckily, I have not left much to chance at this point as far as the essentials are concerned. Every year I am ready to go through an Alaskan winter without any outside assistance. It is still soaking in that I seemed to only get a couple months warning though. What bothers me most are the people who will be caught off guard. If this is what is going on, and nobody has called crazy on this yet, I am most worried for the families who may not have the resources to do something about it now. Unfortunately so many wait until something happens to get ready, and then it is usually too late.

That's not to say that my shopping list isn't growing already, my boys may even get batteries for Christmas this year.

And dig deeper on that hazardous materials list, I was truly blown away by one line item,
Carbon, Animal or Vegetable based. REALLY?????
What the hell is going on, why would that be on DOT's hazmat list?

reply to post by chiefsmom



Food product exempt from the DOT.
Example open trailers carrying ten tons of lemons down the highway and not placarded corrosive. Lemons are way below ph2, would corrode, steel at 1/4 inch per year etc, etc. Point is many citrus items are acidic but because they are a food product they are exempt.

Vanilla and non stick spray should at least be on the GRAS list at least. Even though they are not food product per sae.
Saccharin had been on the GRAS list since its inception. However Rumsfeld and Monsanto needed Aspertame to be pushed through and so Saccharin had to be vilified by false research**.

* Aspertame rense.com...
**Saccharin en.wikipedia.org...

I am seeing that I should have worded this thread differently maybe. My biggest concern after I thought about what she told me at the store, is that we will very possibly no longer have access to many items that are essential.

The access that we do have will be alot more expensive every step of the way.

One concern of mine after searching for a few days is that the hazmat list would basically be it, right?
If they get rid of our domestic exemption classification, then it all just falls back under hazardous materials with the paperwork, and permits and extra regulation.

Our economy is already in the toilet with so many people struggling to feed their families and put fuel in their vehicle to get work, when there is work available. What happens when these items that we rely so much on for in our daily lives are either gone, or we cannot afford them?

I have seen the panic that happens when people THINK they can no longer get supplies into a town, for a SHORT period of time.It was chaos, and people did not even have the presence of mind to buy water. What they were going to do with 8 gallons of milk if the power went out is still beyond me. Talk about SHTF, When people show up in January for propane bottles to run heat or appliances and there is shortage or not enough money in their pockets, WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

I am still hoping to be way off on all of this, but nobody has debunked this for me yet. I understand about the vanilla shortage, it has nothing to do with baking spray as well or Costco. She was pretty clear that this was a SHIPPING issue.

I need help here, I know how everyone feels about lazy research and doing it for yourself, trust me I have spent more time on this than I really should, but it is time better spent that way, if this is what is happening.
I want to be debunked and laughed out of here for this. I understand this is a world wide site, but tell me that there aren't a few Americans out there who have access to better info than I can find.

Thanks everyone for your help and input, I really do appreciate it!!

I refuse to let this thread die until I have something better than what I started with, after my sons' birthday party this weekend I will jump in head first until this makes more sense, has been confirmed or denied.


Another thing that I can't believe is the classification of CARBON, animal or vegetable on the hazmat list. How can they do that? Or am I taking it too literally and they mean some form of product?

Originally posted by thov420
reply to post by phroziac

 

I don't know the transport rules but the gas stations around here, Kwik Trip's, transport butane lighters and butane cylinders without any HazMat signage more often than not.

Hell walmart ships shotgun shells with no signage. Youre talking about less than 1000lb right? Anyway i drive a tanker...dont have to worry about this crap. i havr to placard empty trailers lol

reply to post by Zaphod58


Ok. I see that you said that in another thread now about map21 and the nafta highway. Might I ask WHAT those changes are going to be?

I have still been unable to find anything more about the coming changes on January 1. I am curious though as to what else is coming up. I was also reading this morning about power going out to distribution centers before the storm hit. I saw that it was because a driver fell asleep, but there seems to be alot of things lining up to empty our store shelves as well.

reply to post by woodsmom


The current changes that take effect July 1st of next year involve the drivers breaks. They just make them harder for us to take, and for us to drive, and over regulate us even more. Sorry, the last few days have been hectic and I totally forgot to look for your list. If you can get your hands on a copy of the FMCSR, either online, or at a truck stop, if there's one near you, there is a list in it. I'll TRY over the next few days to type up a list for you, but we're back running hard, and having to deal with some weather issues along our route, so I won't make any promises.

reply to post by Zaphod58


No worries at all! I appreciate the time! Good luck with the cleanup, I have been praying for everyone in the path of this. It breaks my heart. It pisses me off too, honestly some of the responses and some of the bs the govt is pushing behind the scenes too. We need to look out for each other and not beat each other up so badly.

Thanks for the lead, I will get more chance to dig myself now too. The possible ramifications of the shipping changes reach so much farther now after the devastation that the east coast just experienced.
I can't imagine adding cost on top of the already huge economic impact this will have on the entire nation.

Good luck again, with everything.

reply to post by woodsmom


From what I've heard, Wal-Mart played a not so small role in getting the rules changed. Apparently they have their own interpretation as to what the non-placarding rule really means, and it's different from what the DOT thinks it means.

Apparently the Wal-Mart interpretation is that the 1001 lbs rule means 1001 lbs per product. The DOT says it's 1001 lbs for the entire load. Without having my FMCSR handy, I can't tell you exactly how it's worded, but the wording in the rule is important. But apparently, it's vague enough that Wal-Mart is still shipping freight the same way. I was told that they would get 4-5 full pallets of HBA products, plus batteries, plus bleach, all off the same truck. Well over 1001 lbs total, but less than 1001 per product.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Go figure that it is Wal-Mart affecting changes that in turn affect us all. I worked at a large distribution greenhouse that needed Wal-Marts contract to continue competing in the state. We were forced to change the entire labeling structure and several other operating procedures that had been in place forever. All they do is get everyone addicted to a cheap materialistic lifestyle and behind the scenes mess up a community full of small family run businesses who can't afford to compete.

I have been trying to sift through the FMCSA manuals, but it states that the regulations, at least under the federal hazmat section, are only current to August 30,2012. What regulations are we currently under then? I also checked in the notices section to see what might replace it and could not find anything. I am still sifting. I pose another question to all the truckers out there, If this is just a simple placarding change and a bit of extra paperwork that is affected by the ground shipping changes in January, could that be so cost prohibitive to stop a major company from shipping basic items? Or am I completely barking up the wrong tree?

The best I have been able to reason so far, is that basically everything that was domestically exempt before, will now have to be shipped more like, or strictly following, international standards. What you said about Wal-mart fits, because if they are bending the rules on a large scale, that reaches across the country, and international standards are stricter. So basically nobody gets our domestic hazmat shipping exemption because of the abuses of one (or more)? I am still hoping to be way off. I probably won't know until the shelves start showing up empty. I am happy to have been given a heads up, at least it won't take a few families by surprise.
Thanks for all of your help Zaphod.

reply to post by woodsmom


We're under the same rules. Unless there is an update noted, the rules apply until an update is put in place. Even though they've "expired" they're still current. They may change a word or two, but they're the same basic rules.

As for shipping costs, a major company is going to keep shipping, they may just increase prices for those specific loads. Hazmat loads usually pay more than non-hazmat (depending on company), so that would get passed on to the shipper. You won't see any change in major companies as far as shipping/not shipping goes. They all have enough drivers that they have people that can pull hazmat to spare. Even with the medium companies you'll still see them probably shipping as normal. Where this is going to hurt is the small companies. Not all of them have a lot of hazmat drivers, some don't have any at all.

Glad I could help.

I am not completely sure how it lines up, but it may. I was just reading a thread about the renewed support for the UN gun ban. Someone pointed out that it was only for international shipping, and I was just wondering if some of our new regulations might bite us back.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Gun and ammo are already on the hazmat list of course, if we have to apply international shipping standards to all hazmat, does that mean that the shipping of guns and ammo may be even more tightly regulated, even across state borders. I read through the documents last summer, and it pertains mostly to trafficking. I understand they aren't coming for our guns, but could regulating things too far essentially accomplish the same goal?

I am curious as to how wrong (or right) I was about this. I honestly have not been back into the store in question since the first of the year, I figured that I would give it another week or so and go see what is or is not on their shelves any longer. Prices continue to rise, but for oh so many reasons that it is hard to pinpoint it just to shipping changes.

Has anyone else seen any major changes concerning shipped items that may fall onto the haz-mat list?

Well, I have yet to find out why, but they were correct. Costco is no longer shipping certain items to that store ( I haven't checked the other store they stock here yet ) the vanilla and baking spray have disappeared from their shelves along with some of their medications. These items are still available locally at other stores, but I have yet to go make a price comparison. Thanks again Zaphod for all of your help, and the most recent heads up on lack of changes. If I get to the bottom of this, or see other things disappearing then I will update.