Five Things Christians Need to Stop Doing

reply to post by Deetermined


I think you're missing the point here. There's this "Holier than thou, my poo smells better" attitude thing going on. And I don't give a rat's dead corpse what Jesus said, the point is what's being done about it TODAY. It doesn't matter what's said, it's how people USE what's said.

And I think that's a major point of contention these days. That's why I don't care about Jesus. He isn't here now, so he can't say, "Oh, I meant this," or "Hey, you're doing it wrong." He's useless because he ISN'T HERE, unlike the plethora of people consistently misinterpreting, misrepresenting, or misleading followers into thinking, "Hey, we need to judge this group over here," or "hey, we were promised this so we'll sit here and do nothing while the world burns." He isn't here to correct anyone, and so we try to correct people instead, but no one listens because we're not him and they say, "If he has a problem, he can fix it when he comes," but they're the ones who think he'll come and we're just left scratching our heads because you can't argue with an idiot!

When Jesus gets here, he becomes relevant. But until then, WE are here, and so this world is OUR problem. Now, how do we plan to fix it? Any ideas?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

He's useless because he ISN'T HERE, unlike the plethora of people consistently misinterpreting, misrepresenting, or misleading followers into thinking, "Hey, we need to judge this group over here," or "hey, we were promised this so we'll sit here and do nothing while the world burns." He isn't here to correct anyone, and so we try to correct people instead, but no one listens because we're not him and they say, "If he has a problem, he can fix it when he comes," but they're the ones who think he'll come and we're just left scratching our heads because you can't argue with an idiot!

When Jesus gets here, he becomes relevant. But until then, WE are here, and so this world is OUR problem. Now, how do we plan to fix it? Any ideas?

As for your comment that "no one listens because we're not him", you must have forgotten that most of the people weren't listening when it was him, and when it came straight from the horses mouth.

We know that some people aren't going to listen to us either. That's what Jesus said would happen. He said the world would reject him and the world would reject us for following him.

Until Jesus returns, we can only do what he has asked us to do. What you fail to realize is that not everyone is going to follow along in doing that, no matter how hard you try to convince them. I think you're starting to realize that, but it hasn't sunk in fully yet.

reply to post by Deetermined


It's a matter of personal discretion. But it really doesn't matter, because every Christian has already made up their minds. Harvard scholars have stated that all the evidence could be pointing to one thing and they'll still believe another, because that is what scripture teaches them.

So it's no use even discussing it. Why preach to a brick wall?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

So it's no use even discussing it. Why preach to a brick wall?

I get the impression that you think the "brick wall" is made up of the Christians.

Do you really think it's the non-Christians who want to CHANGE things? Do you think it's the majority of non-Christians who are setting the best example for people to live by? What reason do non-Christians have for setting the moral goal posts on this earth in order to turn it all around? Until the moral goal posts are set, nothing changes.

If it doesn't start with morals and principles, where does it start?

reply to post by Deetermined

I get the impression that you think the "brick wall" is made up of the Christians.

More often than not, I speak of mankind in general as being the brick wall. Mankind prefers to stand in its own way because it doesn't know if what's around the curve in the road will suit the purposes it feels must be met.

But we all know humans are the least reliable source of knowing what's needed.

Do you really think it's the non-Christians who want to CHANGE things? Do you think it's the majority of non-Christians who are setting the best example for people to live by? What reason do non-Christians have for setting the moral goal posts on this earth in order to turn it all around? Until the moral goal posts are set, nothing changes.

As matters stand now, I am hard-pressed to trust humans with that task.

If it doesn't start with morals and principles, where does it start?

Empathy. Unless we become empathic to the point of being unable to ignore one another's suffering, we will be continually tempted to use the guide posts to our advantage and call it "morals". How do you think we've come by all of our ideas in this modern age? Old concepts being reworked and then slapping the same old name on it, so we think we're doing the right thing and only the higher ups know the truth of it.

reply to post by Snsoc
Log into any website talking about politics or religion, and there will be a Christian, spewing hate for atheists, liberals, gays and abortionists.


What I see is that I can log into any website talking about politics and religion there will be Atheists, Deists, Liberals, Gays, Abortionists, Muslims and so on spewing hate for Christians. It goes both ways and you wonder why the OP sees this as "one sided". If we are going to be fair and just, let us see both sides of this. This gives us all PERIPHERAL VISION on the problem.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Deetermined

 

I think you're missing the point here. There's this attitude thing going on. And I don't give a rat's dead corpse what Jesus said, the point is what's being done about it TODAY. It doesn't matter what's said, it's how people USE what's said.

and all I see is that "Holier than thou, my poo smells better" attitude coming from atheists and they deny it flatout.
They play the victim and act all sad and demand we stop moralising, yet moralise their faith.

Its just circle work

In some ways this is advice a lot of different groups could take, and it's inspiring to see people self evaluate and learn about themselves.

I don't exactly see this as needing to be political. Some things require legislation, but we shouldn't legislate what people believe in any more than we should try to prevent them from every single sin we can. Unless your name is Captain America and you have super hero friends and you're perfect ... then do whatcha want.

reply to post by Deetermined

Do you really think it's the non-Christians who want to CHANGE things?

YES

Do you think it's the majority of non-Christians who are setting the best example for people to live by?

YES

And you know why, Dee????
Because you were one of those "Christians" who wrote here on ATS:
IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.

And I challenged you on it, saying, "That's right..Because there are people who say it will never change."

They say that, and then they wash their hands of it, and walk away, convinced that there's no reason to TRY to change things.

gha

reply to post by Snsoc


They are a bunch of nuts!

I would have rather heard about what Christians need to start doing. Part of the discontent with Christianity is its emphasis on negative reenforcement rather than positive and constructive reenforcement.

In my opinion, Christians would best serve Christ by beginning to serve Christ through being of christian service to others, but instead most Christians just serve society and so they are lovers of money and possessions (which supports some of the most horrible aspects of society), they vote for, support, or follow political parties and their party lines, and otherwise seem to think they can both love Christ and their brother while being part of the very world which killed Christ and his brother (James the Just).

Christians need to give up on money, power, and even the pursuit of earthly-comfort, sell their possessions, except for their most basic needs, and spend the rest of their lives communing with God and helping, healing, and serving their fellow humans (and the world they were charged with caring for). Maybe they could do something constructive beforehand and learn a skill or become a naturopathic nurse or doctor, then begin practicing minimalism and actually helping and healing others, and maybe, just maybe...they might catch someone's attention as someone who really walks the walk and talks the talk. Maybe respect for Christians and the name of Christianity (and consequently Christ) would finally arrive?

What's wrong with the world and also Christians today? There are people in the world in need of help and who are sick. So learn to heal them and help them. Laws and social pressures are ungodly. So go live a godly life and show others the pressure can be overcome and that laws come from God and not man. Politicians and legislators won't listen. So? Your kingdom is not supposed to be of this world, so why do you think you can expect them to listen? People are forced to do ungodly things? Don't do them and refuse to do them even if beaten to death. Don't try to fight fire with fire and force others, but be passive in your worldly actions yet spiritually aggressive and resolute. Don't try to change the physical world and the flesh of others because even you are not changed physically yet. The fight is not physical and so I wonder why in the hell Christians think political action, economic power, and similar worldly things will make a difference?

In my opinion, if you are a Christian and you believe in what you claim is the way of Christ and in the transformation of the spirit through Christ and the Holy Spirit, and you own a house and there are homeless people in this world, then you fail as a Christian. If you own a car and a child is dying of cancer or another person is going hungry because you have a thousand excuses why you need that car and must pay for maintaining it and pollute the environment rather than selling it for just the "chance" that it might save a life - you fail! If you have more than one pair of shoes while someone goes barefoot - you fail! if you have TV, which you do not need, the money used to purchase it of which could have went to be of Christian service to society - you fail!

Christians will never get their act together because they can't see past themselves, their own comforts, and generally "loving their own lives". I don't think I've ever met a Christian. Christians take the money, "gifts", and pleasures in life given to them by their Master and bury it (aka sit on it in relative comfort) feeling they earned it and deserve it more than "that sinner over there" instead of taking their money and gifts and pleasures and doing like their Master did to them and was trying to show them... that is, giving it to someone less worthy or less off than they. Your faith says you don't deserve anything anymore than anyone else, yet you instantly forget that when you feel you have been saved.

Christians will never be taken seriously so long as they are supporters of the kingdom which is not their own. Do you really think you can change laws that you are supposed to believe come from God? So why do you even have an earthly political agenda? Seriously. Why? Why are you warring in the flesh over fleshly matters? Do you really think the laws or political agendas of men are going to change anything spiritually?

Its a pity. As a pagan I probably love the ways of Christ more than any Christian I've ever known and yet I'm the evil one. I gave up Christianity long ago because it has about as much to do with Christ as lightning has to do with a cigarette lighter or red has to do with tomatoes - about nothing.

I look forward to hearing the excuses as to why I am wrong about what the Bible plainly states is Christ-like.

reply to post by Snsoc

I too am a Christian, but I think the Christian faith can be broken down in fewer words. Jesus taught us to to love one another and that judgement can only come from God. It is not for us to judge our fellow humans, but to show them love and compassion. If more Christians would follow this simple ideal the world would be a better place.

Originally posted by Snsoc
1.) Having Leadership that Loves Money

No minister wants to turn people off, because that would mean the cash stops rolling in. And the God business is a good one. Churches enjoy tax-exempt status AND they strongly encourage tithing (giving 10%) AND most of what gets donated does not make it to the poor or the lost. There’s a reason the pastor has a nicer house and car than most of his flock. The money is just flowing in.

Contrast this with Jesus, who:
Paid taxes (Matthew 17:14-27)
Encouraged others to pay their taxes (Matthew 22:15-21, Mark 12:17)
Didn’t even have a house (Matthew 8:20, Luke 9:58)
Commanded church leaders to NOT be lovers of money (1 Timothy 3:3)
Preached against wealth (Matthew 6:19, Mark 10:21, Luke 16:19-31)
Instructed that people should make up their own minds how much to give. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

I cannot overstress the significance of that last one. Tithing is an Old Covenant principle. It is the Old Law, and the New Testament is quite clear that we are not supposed to follow it, and that we are under a curse if we do. (Galatians 3:10) The New Testament mentions at least 38 times that we do not follow the Old Covenant. Yet go to any church for a few months and the pastor will have a series on “Biblical giving,” and by that he means “tithing.”

Think what would happen if every Christian sold what he or she had that was unnecessary and gave it to the poor? What if they were on their faces in church every Sunday, repenting for their lust, their anger, their hate and their pride? What if they stood up to Republicans and right-wingers and said, “No more money, no more votes. You’re through.” What if they quit every mega-church and met in simple, sparsely-decorated buildings? What if every minister had to get a day job, just like the Apostle Paul? What if Christians were known not for what they were against, but for having the answers for the lost when they finally had enough of their sin and came to church to see what it was all about? And when they did, what if they were greeted with open arms of love by people who knew that they themselves were sinners?

Well, we’d probably have something like what Jesus intended, wouldn’t we?

edit on 21-10-2012 by Snsoc because: (no reason given)

Now...THIS is the type of Christian that USED TO BE the norm. I'm atheist...but I have no problem with ANY of this. THANK YOU FOR BEING A VOICE OF SANITY IN AN INCREASINGLY DERANGED RELIGIOUS LANDSCAPE!

I cannot recall the last time I heard a Christian come out and say that they don't think it's very Christ-like to oppress, bomb, murder, steal, and bribe with reckless abandon.

THERE MIGHT JUST BE HOPE FOR THIS COUNTRY YET!!

Thought I would share my experiences with Christianity.

When I was eight we started to attend a large, well known non-denominational Christian church. I did not like this place. Even at that young age I was disturbed by the fact that such fear is instilled into children in order to "steer" them to Jesus. Every service included the doom and gloom of eternal suffering in the pits of Hell. A few years later I was enrolled in the Christian school. This was even worse than going to church there. The majority of the school faculty appeared overwhelmingly unhappy, We had daily Bible study, weekly chapel service and for "field trips" we attended large Bible seminars on multiple occasions. Oh what fun for a twelve year old. :/

A couple of years after I left the school, a molestation scandal broke out. A teacher had been molesting boys in the fourth grade and under for years. It's sickening enough that this behavior was going on, but the fact that it was kept under wraps for so long is just ridiculous. The church and school immediately took a large blow. But do you know what really bothered me? When prayer was being led during services devoted to uplifting the church and openly rebuking the families of the victims. Um, what? That's not what Christianity is supposed to be about. Anyhow, the school was closed in 2010 when it was on the verge of becoming financially detrimental to the church. They brought it on themselves, if you ask me. But that should go without saying.

This hypocrisy among Christians runs rampant. Although the same could be said for many religions. And people are not all the same. Those who are hateful and delusional are in all walks of life and Christians are not all bad. That was really an eye-opening experience for me and shortly after I stepped away from not only Christianity but religion altogether. And you know what? I've never felt better. I'm a very spiritual person and I'm fortunate to have become so open minded about our existence and purpose in this world. My personal opinion is that religion is a scapegoat. I believe that there are certain truths in religious texts, but what so many fail to realize is that this knowledge has become distorted.

The previous job that I held proved to be an interesting, eye-opening experience as well. Busy pet grooming salon run and staffed primarily by Christians. The owners were the we-go-to-church-every-sunday-so-we-can-do-no-wrong type. Christian literature, music and audio sermons all over the shop. They'd gather us all together to pray every morning. Yet these people would judge nearly every person that walked in the door. It didn't matter who you were, what type of clothes or shoes you were wearing, your lifestyle choices, how you took care of your dog or cat...it was terrible!! Up until that point I had never witnessed this kind of higher-than-though attitude. They're lucky that I never snapped and informed our paying clients that they were being talked about behind their backs to that extent. But that would have done nothing but exacerbate the whole cycle of anger and hate. That mentality is just astonishing to me, I just don't understand. I'm not perfect, I have more flaws than I would care to admit. But if people could let go of their hate they would truly realize how much energy they unnecessarily waste.

We're taught to love our neighbors as ourselves. So many Christians that I have have met over the years can talk big, but fail to help others in the way that the Bible teaches...by reaching out and physically helping someone in need, whether it's feeding the hungry, being kind to someone who is having a rough day, etc.

reply to post by wildtimes

And you know why, Dee???? Because you were one of those "Christians" who wrote here on ATS: IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.

And I challenged you on it, saying, "That's right..Because there are people who say it will never change."

They say that, and then they wash their hands of it, and walk away, convinced that there's no reason to TRY to change things.

I'm just being realistic, Wildtimes.

I don't wash my hands of it and walk away. I'm still a parent that has to set an example and teach my child how to provide the best future for herself and others. I'm not willing to throw my child and her future to the dogs without a fight, but I also teach her that life isn't fair, warn her against the corruption of this world, and prepare her for the worst while striving for the best to make this a fulfilling life. To do otherwise would be irresponsible of me.

All I ask is that people reflect on the last 2,000 years and contemplate on why we haven't progressed any more than we have as a people during that time....and think realistically about it. That's all.

reply to post by Deetermined

All I ask is that people reflect on the last 2,000 years and contemplate on why we haven't progressed any more than we have as a people during that time....and think realistically about it. That's all.

Fair enough. Why haven't we progressed further over the last 2,000 years? I think it has something to do with 2,000-year-old information being held up as the ultimate truth, rather than allowing humanity to grow beyond its less mature superstitions and explanations for the natural world's phenomena.

Of course as a parent you must teach your child that things are not necessarily safe, and the fact is that it's dangerous. My point is that if everyone would agree to get along, treat each other decently, and believe in the hope that doing so would change things, then it might.

Being realistic is fine and responsible. Being optimistic is generally helpful and not counterproductive. Being fatalistic is self-fulfilling. (Hope that makes sense. I'm still working on my coffee. )

Why bother to try if one is convinced there's no use?
You know, hope springs eternal, and all that.

reply to post by buster2010


Jesus version of socialism is vastly superior and very different than modern socialist's views of it are. For instance, early christians would sell off all their property and move into a communal setting, distributing the wealth equally amoung church members, so that all were equal and none were above another, this prevented them obtaining "leavening" in their spirits.

Modern socialism consists of making the rich poorer, but the poor also get poorer and the poor will have even worse of a time being successful and the government get's all the power and ultimately all the power will end up in the hands of a dictator, and the rich will continue to live better off than the poor and the poor will live in misery, stuck on the bottom of the pond, without opportunities to excel. Men are incapable of pulling off something like this and it not getting corrupted. Modern socialism leaves the poor without any hope at all for their lives and families. Take a look at Kenya, not doing too well since they drove the British out. South Africa waited longer and now look at them, pretty modernized country with better living conditions. Take a look at Cuba, the people suffer in poor conditions, being witheld 50 years worth of advancements in technology. Cuba could have been part of the U.S. and they wouldn't be suffering like they are and you wouldn't see people trying to ride innertubes and rowboats to Key West.

reply to post by HillbillyHippie1


Star for you from me for saying it better than I did.

Originally posted by AriesJedi
Now if we could just work on the Christian haters, this Earth would be peaceful.

Which, the Christian haters or the haters of Christians because that phenomenon is certainly on the rise.