Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

reply to post by Rubicant13

Hmm... I guess you missed the part I posted about how it may affect you if you were one of these homosexual children and you were put in a different school based on sexual orientation

No, I read it fine. It's you who fails to understand the obvious undemocratic implications of your thinking.

Perhaps we should tell these children that it doesn't matter if it makes them feel inferior to the heterosexual children that they are kept from, because it's just the way it is and should be.

First, I am not morally obligated to make a homosexual kid feel better about his 'tendencies' anymore than a homosexual, or someone like yourself, is obligated to sympathize with my personal belief that homosexuality goes against natural law.

I categorically refuse to let one camp of people use the school system to subvert the religious beliefs of millions of people, whom they disagree with. Not only is it undemocratic, but it is conniving, and contrary to the interests of the polis. However, since I feel for the existential situation of the gay kid/teen, another school could be set up to accommodate his or her needs. Or, he could develop some self esteem and deal with it. There are plenty of 'camps', not only within society, but also within schools, which could make such a homosexual feel accepted. In such a milieu, he would develop what he or she needs to succeed in the outer world.

By the way, I sort of fail to understand how 'heterosexism' leads to homophobia. I know plenty of people, who, while harboring the notion that it is 'natural' to be heterosexual, nevertheless treat gays the same as anyone else. Why are we striving to make them feel better for such a subtle notion that they wouldn't feel "totally" normal, because everyone doesn't relativize sexuality to the abyss as they do? It's ridiculous. And it's a pseudo-scientific claim with a political objective in mind.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by magma

 

Heterosexuality is not the norm?

Utter Garbage. Of course it is the norm.

Yes. It is. Can you provide the actual document which is supposed to have said that is part of the program to tell children otherwise?

It was actually the headline paragraph and it is a journalist putting their own spin on it.
The thing that stands out for me the most is the name of the programme. "Proud"

reply to post by magma

Yes it is.

Nice.
It's wrong to teach that persecuting people because they are different is wrong.

reply to post by magma

It was actually the headline paragraph and it is a journalist putting their own spin on it.

Yes. A heavily biased journalist.

reply to post by Phage

It's wrong to teach that persecuting people because they are different is wrong.

In no uncertain terms of course it is.

What is wrong is unduly influencing a child sexual development backed by an agenda. That is wrong

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by magma

 

At the end of the day it is not the job of the education department to instill these values into children.

The "value" is that it is not right to persecute anyone because they are different. That's just a terrible thing to teach, isn't it?

edit on 10/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

That is NOT what they are teaching phage , and you know it. They are teaching that it is as natural in life to be homosexual as it is to be heterosexual.

So by those words we shouldn't persecute or prosecute pedophiles, because they are different?

Many scientists already argue that they were just wired differently at birth, and can't help that they are attracted to children...much the same as the "scientific" logic they have used to promote and endorse homosexuality.

By the very same argument of people being "wired" differently , and not being persecuted for it, there will perhaps come a time where we will be taught not to judge pedophilia as well, because people did not choose to be born with that sexual preference, and should not be persecuted for it.

You will argue that it is different because it involves children , yet those who argue for freedom ,and non persecution of sexual orientation from birth may see it very differently...after all it is just an issue of "morality" when it comes to children, and many believe there is no such thing as real morality.

As someone already stated in this thread..many believe there is no right or wrong..everything is subjective to what you have been taught.

So by those words we shouldn't persecute or prosecute pedophiles, because they are different? Many scientists already argue that they were just wired differently at birth, and can't help that they are attracted to children...much the same as the "scientific" logic they have used to promote and endorse homosexuality. By the very same argument of people being "wired" differently , and not being persecuted for it, there will perhaps come a time where we will be taught not to judge pedophilia as well, because people did not choose to be born with that sexual preference, and should not be persecuted for it.

WW, what does this have to do with homosexuality being taught in schools as being equally acceptable in schools? Pedophiles come in all types and a lot are not homosexual that prey on children. All pedophiles should be punished regardless of sexual orientation only because they prey on children. Their sexual orientation should play no role in that punishment whatsoever - only the crime they committed against the children they preyed upon.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by magma

 

At the end of the day it is not the job of the education department to instill these values into children.

The "value" is that it is not right to persecute anyone because they are different. That's just a terrible thing to teach, isn't it?

edit on 10/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Wouldn't it make more sence for the schools to create programs againt bullying of anykind? Why would this program be so fucused on an issue of sexuality to kids?

reply to post by MountainLaurel

Wouldn't it make more sence for the schools to create programs againt bullying of anykind? Why would this program be so fucused on an issue of sexuality to kids?

Because there appears to be an agenda. What other reason would there be?

Wonder what that Agenda is and who it might be driven by.

Any guesses?

self preservation and the preservation of one's race are the two most prominent survival instincts in any species of living being.

Homosexuality goes against this.

Not homophobic, go be gay if you want, but I consider it to be a mental disorder.

reply to post by Phage

And you know this, how? Have you been to the program? Have you seen the curriculum?

Have you?

I don't believe that. But I don't believe it's wrong to be homosexual.

So, once again, because you personally believe it is morally ok to be homosexual , then the state has a right to teach that to ALL children, whether their parents believe in it or not.

Because you personally don't believe that the bible could be true, do you then agree that the state has the right to start teaching that the bible is totally false , and all morals based on the bible are pure fabrication ?

Will you stand up for those who get bullied into leaving their morals at the door of the school ?

Originally posted by MountainLaurel

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by magma

 

At the end of the day it is not the job of the education department to instill these values into children.

The "value" is that it is not right to persecute anyone because they are different. That's just a terrible thing to teach, isn't it?

edit on 10/22/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Wouldn't it make more sence for the schools to create programs againt bullying of anykind? Why would this program be so fucused on an issue of sexuality to kids?

I could not have said it any better myself. Exactly the point. Teach not to bully. That's the true problem with this issue. Separating people based on sexual differences is as wrong as doing so for any other reasons.

double post.

Heres the last bit of the daily telegraph article:

Whatever. It's not up to academics to dictate attitudes to society via indoctrination of captive children in classrooms, and it's irresponsible of politicians to allow them to do so.

Parents expect their children to go to school to learn basic skills, and become socialised. They expect a safe environment in which everyone is treated with respect and without bullying.

But they also don't expect that their values should be subverted by homosexual or any other propaganda.

And they don’t expect that widespread acceptance of heterosexuality as the most common human experience would be demonised.

An agenda with sexuality was on order long before today. In modern time it has been Sigmund Freud who, as the father of psychoanalysis was told to focus on sex - which he did. This is why Jung and Freud parted company because Gustav Jung held on to his principles and could not be purchased for a price.

The agenda has continued on and has been well established in schools since the 70's - 80's when sex education became a specific subject on the school curriculum.

Factor in all the sex featured in television, advertising, music clips, magazines and anywhere else. The agenda is to teach Children all about sex as early as possible - this creates confusion as we know that Children mature sexually during adolescence.

Then factor in the cabal/illuminati/whatever and their black magic practices. I don't believe and don't want anything to do with it but I have read in order to educate myself - ignorance is not bliss. The focus on sex in schools is not about having a healthy outlook towards sex but rather as something that you must do and do it as soon as you can and with whoever you want etcetera.

Much Peace...

reply to post by Rubicant13

WW, what does this have to do with homosexuality being taught in schools as being equally acceptable in schools? Pedophiles come in all types and a lot are not homosexual that prey on children. All pedophiles should be punished regardless of sexual orientation only because they prey on children. Their sexual orientation should play no role in that punishment whatsoever - only the crime they committed against the children they preyed upon.

It has everything to do with it rubicant.

They will argue the very same "scientific logic", and are already, that they did not ask to be born with that sexual preference, and they have a right to not be persecuted for it.

There are pedophiles in jail fighting for the rights of children to have sex , and that if they are "hard wired " to be of that sexual orientation, and children want to be willing participants in a sexual act, that no one has the "moral" high ground to say it isn't right.

After all.. Who is to judge how they were scientifically created, and who is to judge what children should and shouldn't do willingly, according to them.

Its total crap.. but I guarantee you rube..as weird as 50 years ago people thinking that homosexuals would have the right someday to marry, this issue is what is coming up next..on the agendas of tptb.

It is based on the very same "scientific logic"....and the freedom to follow your "natural" sexual urges.

They will use the simple argument that you used in one of your posts..

Separating people based on sexual differences is as wrong as doing so for any other reasons.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel

Wouldn't it make more sence for the schools to create programs againt bullying of anykind? Why would this program be so fucused on an issue of sexuality to kids?

Why do you think that sexuality is the focus?

Originally posted by dontreally

So then, you don't have a problem with people thinking differently, and therefore, you're against this project to teach kids in school that 'sexual' preference is immaterial? Such a curriculum would undermine the beliefs of Christian, Jewish and Muslim children. You would have to forgo democratic principles to reshape society in the image you desire.

Using the state to affect a political agenda, if not 'patriarchal', fine, I will dub it a "matriarchal" nanny state that shovels contempt on the religious views of others they disagree with.

The dogmatic "Im right, youre wrong!" is still there.

It always comes down to this point... do we tolerate intolerance? I'm of the opinion (only an opinion) that we should live by the harm principle. If a teenager is raised to believe that non-heterosexuality (of which there are many types) is immoral, it's an other-regarding action, but if it truly is in the best interests of the parent and no physical abuse has occurred, there's little that could be done. However, when the child goes to school, and bullies a student who happens to be gay, this is an overtly harmful other-regarding action that cannot be ignored.

Let's say I go to school one day with a Bible, walk up to a kid with a crucifix and proceed to rip each of the pages out, all the while screaming "F*** your God, f*** your Christ!" Let's say the kid runs away crying to the headmaster, with a couple of witnesses to boot. My parents get called in, and I have to explain myself.

"Well, you see sir, I'm a secular humanist. My dad's the chairman of the local Anti-Theist Alliance, and my uncle's Richard Dawkins. We firmly believe that theism should be stamped out of society by any means necessary. This is what we believe, and it's only for the good of all!"

I know Christians and Muslims who think like this. I'm even related to a few. The kind of secular society think should exist is the kind that abolishes institutionalised religion, not religious/ideological communities.

Maybe adults should be allowed to say disgusting things in the public sphere. They can subsequently face the repercussions from the offended, and unless they're physically harmed, the state need not intervene. We can publicly shame them, right? Doesn't infringe on free speech in the slightest.

Children, on the other hand, shouldn't have to face that kind of behaviour in the first place, especially when it could have a detrimental impact on their self-esteem.

Originally posted by Fineousstitch
reply to post by milkyway12

 

not quite... i can prove gay people exist but you can't prove creationism is real. There my friend is the difference

I see creation all around me, and where there is a creation, there must, logically, be a Creator. So there is no difference.

star for you OP.
i want to ask all the homosexuality is normal people, is heterosexuality equal to homosexuality??

reply to post by WhisperingWinds

Have you?

No. But I know enough not to believe a biased report about it.

So, once again, because you personally believe it is morally ok to be homosexual , then the state has a right to teach that to ALL children, whether their parents believe in it or not.

I think there is nothing wrong with teaching children that because someone is different it does not mean they are morally corrupt.

Because you personally don't believe that the bible could be true, do you then agree that the state has the right to start teaching that the bible is totally false , and all morals based on the bible are pure fabrication ?

I don't think the state has the right to do that. BTW, I don't happen to believe the Bible is anything more than a bunch of fables but I don't believe that all of the morals of the bible are baseless. The golden rule in particular.

Will you stand up for those who get bullied into leaving their morals at the door of the school ?

I will stand up for anyone persecuted for their beliefs unless those beliefs diminish someone simply because they are different.