Will You Change, if Jesus Is Found NOT To be Real?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Actions, such as speaking, kneeling, and consciously directing emotion, are our way of giving thoughts substance. In giving thoughts substance, we amplify the energy that imbues them, thereby empowering the ideas we hold and giving them the ability to shape our personal world. Get an entire community to join in, and it's a giant community bubble of serenity.

I am aware of that, and that is what to a great extent what the whole religious thing is about, in fact that is what pretty much everything is about that concerned any groups of humans, if they want to be in any sort of cohesiveness they need a constant hive like thought proceed which is usually expressed through symbology and ritual, everything just eventually becomes that even the act of waking up and going to work every day is a symbolical ritual based to some extent as there all based on necessities.

The opposite holds true as well, of course. If actions are imbued with the power of fear, then an apprehensive atmosphere will take hold and amplify every demon that passes through the hearts of those within the bubble. This is exemplified in "The Crucible".

All depends if there is cause for that fear, is it a real thing that you should fear, or is it just something that peoples prejudices and misunderstandings put up as real, and like you quote says it may be real to them, but it would not be real to me or to you. Never watched "The Crucible" of read it, but from the short wiki I skimmed it just seems to be something about endorsing the pc rule as to not question it, because if they did it would throw there entire pathetic world into flux, thereby disturbing the feeling of safety of the group mind. We still have that stuff happening today, its just a part of the overall group dynamic think, not about witches questioning religion and and all that because that fad has ended, now there are new things to not question.

And finally, but certainly not least, there's solipsism. I recommend you take a peek at it, because the best answers are the ones you find on your own

I don't get what the point with Solipsism is ones mind is sure to exist, other minds are sure to exist, and anything that is not sure to exist does not really exist.

You cannot help others without helping yourself. And in helping yourself, you give yourself more time to help others. It's all about balance. Unfortunately, you are correct to a degree - our society is exorbitantly focused on serving itself, due to the fearful atmosphere our leaders have decided is more beneficial in existing than being abolished.

In farming or raising herds of cattle, sheep or anything, you have the herder/farmer, then you have the flocks of sheep, and then you have the sheep dogs who's job is to scare and bark at the sheep when they get our of line or tend to roam around. Society is like that, if you know the basic principles of farming or raising herds you know how society works....You have a great majority of people the populous who are born and raised in the herd, then you have the sheep dogs, who's job is to scare the sheep to get them moving in directions, and then you have farmers who's job is just to oversee the whole process and reap or cull the herd when the time is right.

And that is what our society was founded on and what it's based on, that's why you have a great majority who are usually kept blissfully uninformed of any real things that are going on, and they have been bred and raised to not question or not think much on things, or there usually just given something to think on a dog an pony show. There job is to consume and grow, ie a consumer economy its basically a large mass of populous which you can tax on.

Above that you have the ones who keep them in line the sheep dogs in the herd of sheep, even online you can spot a sheepdog or two once in a while barking up fears in the flock its not hard to spot them now is it. And then at the top of the pyramid like it is on a farm you have the farmer who's job is to manage and run things in the herd, and just like in sheep herds you have a growing period were there left to roam and grow fat, then you have a sheering period were there sheered, and then you have a reaping period were some end up as food ie lamb chops.

The same cycle is used in everything even growing plants not only animals, its what everything and everything we have created in society is derived from and based on. And so now you know the reason for the fearful atmosphere, so as the sheeple wont get out of line and disturb things as it would ruin the process of how things are run. What you do not know you fear, but the knowable fears are much more scary then the unknown ones, sometimes so much so that we invent things to fear so as to not look at the thing we really fear.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

This only shows that religion does have that potential. But just as medicine can be administered in many different ways, so religion can be studied in many different ways. Because we are prone to "group survival", we are also prone to "group think", which means we will come to one conclusion that satisfies the masses, and anyone who disagrees will either swiftly change their opinion or be ejected from the group for the sake of the rest.

Religion is the thing we invented to fear so as to not think on the things that are really problems in our world. In fact it does seem to have a whole lot in similar with flocks and sheep, and reaping, and unquestioning acceptance. I think there even was a part in the bible were Abraham is asked by god to sacrifice his son Issac, not that he goes through with it, but there seems to be a lot of sacrificing and such in all religions that have existed in this world and even a whole reaping season complete with a day of judgement with a hell and heaven were the faithful will be heading, and all that jive. But hey, it could all just be a coincidence.

But here is what a wise man once said on it.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful...Seneca the Younger"

It's a survival technique - if the entire group isn't of like mind, that increases the likelihood of strife and weakness, something that can generate a crucial oversight and put the population at risk.

It cant be a very good survival technique, maybe in the stone age or when we lived in clans and towns only. But looking back on it now, its track record and counting up the bodies which sometimes reach into the millions over some things and in some wars the whole folding back into the fold of the group for that special safe feeling does not seem all that great of a survival technique. But hey it works for antelopes in the wild when they got a lion pride after them. For humans...nah not so much of that great of an idea, its an outdated instinct I would say one that the "leaders" have used for a long time to make the human herd dance to there tune. That whole imbedding fear again.

Abolish fear of change. There's your simple, and yet not so simple, answer.

There is no reason to fear change, and even in change it is only the unknowns of that change which are feared, and most of those are wrongly feared anyways. But hey lets leave that to the politicians and there handlers and string pullers it seems that things are getting close to election time....Hmm wonder what shall we be brought to fear this time, everybody promises change, but change will happen regardless. Its always interesting to watch the whole playing on peoples fears thing that goes on about this time of the year. Change however should not be feared it is a normal part and process of life. The only question then becomes change for what and who?

In accordance to the statement above, I believe that unless fear of change is repealed, we will forever fight amongst ourselves until change is forced or we lose momentum entirely and collapse into the stone ages once more. As a lightworker, I care for the progress of this world and its inhabitants. I would rather not see such potential get sucked into the swirling void of chaos and reduced to square one all over again. We've come too far to lose now. However, there may not be a choice in the matter. I can only hope.

Whats a lightworker? Anyways not that I care, but whatever. I would say fear of change is illogical but that fear of change is always there for logical reasons. And those reasons are many and manyfold, in those reasons you will find the reason for peoples fear of change.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


This thread is completely illogical,

Would you change if someone told you the universe doesn't exist?

Would you change if somebody said oxygen is a myth?

Would you change if someone said E != mc2?

Would you change if someone said Newton was wrong about gravity?

This is just silly.

Nothing would really change whether he was real or not. What matters the most is if people would be willing to follow his teachings and change the world for the better, or worse. Depending if the person is theocrat or not.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Will the only valid reply to this can be will you have regrets if he is found not to be Real? Will It change No Regrets into Regrets???
Or is this a answer too complex and we need to debate over conversations and coffee?

reply to post by godlover25


None of those questions have anything to do with a morally centered philosophy. OP's question did. And OP's question is completely logical, considering all I ever hear about with Christianity is Jesus this, Jesus that. Not a damn thing about the apostles and what they said or believed, just Jesus.

So if Jesus didn't exist, the apostles were lying or didn't exist, and there's nothing to lend validity to those philosophies except the successes of those philosophies. No name to lend power or credence, only success based on trial and error.

Would that be enough for the Christians? That's what OP is asking. And yes, it's a logical question.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

one of those questions have anything to do with a morally centered philosophy. OP's question did. And OP's question is completely logical, considering all I ever hear about with Christianity is Jesus this, Jesus that. Not a damn thing about the apostles and what they said or believed, just Jesus.

Actually it does, it may not be the same exact thing but it is pretty much the same thing.

SO Would you change if someone told you the universe doesn't exist?

Would you change if somebody said oxygen is a myth?

Would you change if someone said E != mc2?

Would you change if someone said Newton was wrong about gravity?

The answer is no you would not change on all those questions. You forget that most of those things were created to fill some void in human understanding or thought or even feelings or for a cohesion in there mental makeup, if that believe changes the void will still be there even if it is replaced by something else.

You could say that religion was invented to excuse your misunderstanding, and you can say that oxygen was created to excuse your breathing. Would any of that be true, none of it would matter to you if it was found out to be something else entirely to somebody else. Of all the things in this world and for humans change is the hardest trick to pull. And most people are just bigger and taller versions of what they were in there youth. People do not really change and neither do the things they believe in they most often just reconfirm and conform to different standards and pressures.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

SO Would you change if someone told you the universe doesn't exist?

Would you change if somebody said oxygen is a myth?

Would you change if someone said E != mc2?

Does the universe tell me what to do? Does oxygen dictate the morals in my life? Do mathematical algorithms judge me after death?

Of all the things in this world and for humans change is the hardest trick to pull. And most people are just bigger and taller versions of what they were in there youth. People do not really change and neither do the things they believe in they most often just reconfirm and conform to different standards and pressures.

So you're saying most people do not consider idiocy something worth changing? Great, that REALLY makes me look forward to another 30 years on this planet.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Does the universe tell me what to do? Does oxygen dictate the morals in my life? Do mathematical algorithms judge me after death?

And how do you know that the universe does not tell you what to do, after all even nature seems to tell you to run for cover in a rainstorm, it even tells you to eat and drink when hungry or thirsty, and last I checked the universe is what created all that, this planet, you, and more besides.

And how do you really know that oxygen does not dictate the morals in your life, maybe those with less morals are just a bit oxygen deprived or did not get enough oxygen to there brain at the time when they made there moral choices. You know I heard that in times of stress and duress your lungs heart and brain intake more oxygen, so I don't know but oxygen and a lack of oxygen intake or processing could have something to do with morals for all anybody really knows.

And really it would not surprise me that mathematical algorithms judge you after death, that is if there actually is anything judging you after you die it would be likely that it would be some sort of higher knowing mind and process. Which for all you know could be a mathematical program of sorts which is keeping tabs on everything in existence. But if you do not like that, then you can always be judged by some dude who sucks at math and his opinion of you is derived by a short clip of a movie on your life that he saw. Really what what would you prefer to judge you if you were to be judged when you die, a really crappy at math computer program, some dude, or a super duper unfathomable all knowing computer capable of all kinds of calculations? And for all you know the soul could just be a complicated mathematical equation that is ever changing and evolving within a universal mind, and even the brain seems to be nothing but a complicated biological parallel processor.

So you're saying most people do not consider idiocy something worth changing? Great, that REALLY makes me look forward to another 30 years on this planet. signature:

Yes that is exactly what I am saying.

And don't worry you have much to look forward to if that is so, I mean look at the movie idiocracy. Sure you could look on the bad depressing side of it, but then again you can always look on the bright side of it. That is, its going to be funny as hell and full of lolz in such a future, if you ever seen the movie and if movies are anything to judge real life from. Then in such a future you would just be laughing till your sides hurt every dam day at the wacky stupid and plain silly things people would do.

Or was that a hint of sarcasm in your writing that I detected. You know there is a bit of a discrepancy between how things are depicted in movies and how they would be in real life if it were to actually take place. Just like there is a discernible difference between a theory on paper and a theory in practice. However that to is just a theory.

But cheer up there and look on the bright side of things, at least the quality, and frequency of lolz, and of stupid silly ridiculous things people do would increase exponentially. It would be like one big gigantic lol fest. Kind of like living in a real life simpsons tv show with homer every day of your life...Doh.

Am I joking...Who knows.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Yeah...no. I don't think so. All of that stuff is fully quantifiable and defies the explanations you're implying are not only plausible, but likely.

Let's just say that my moral code is based on what I feel is appropriate according to the factors that I am aware of. I don't base my life on Jesus because it's myself I have to live with. I trust my own sense of what's right. And no, I don't attribute it to Spirit because I don't agree with Spirit. In fact, I don't agree with the definition of Spirit or your understanding of it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I trust my own sense of what's right. And no, I don't attribute it to Spirit because I don't agree with Spirit. In fact, I don't agree with the definition of Spirit or your understanding of it.

I have other theories on the soul and spirit, one of which is that the soul and spirit resides in the left toe. I have not gathered enough evidence that it may have anything to do with the left toe either, but its a possibility. I have heard that people without a left toes are more bizarre and possibly more evil, and there possibly could be evidence or a correlation that some of the most evilest people in history like Hitler had a mangled left toe or possibly even a missing left toe, which probably lead to there evilness. One could always test this theory by amputating there left toe, but then there is always probability of a possibility that what if the theory is right.

In fact I have other theories on what spirit is and what a soul is, then the above, or the above o post. But of those theories you will not hear because there a bit hard to understand and a bit far out there, I am afraid your just to childish to hear of them as of yet, as there likely to blow your mind. Like booom wow.

But um, Ya! totally bro, you don't have to believe my definition of what spirit is. And just like you dont have to change and believe my theory on the soul and spirit. I do not think that you will change or anybody will change all that much if they found out Jesus was not real. After all its just as likely that man created god, as it is that god created man, or who knows maybe they even created each other.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

I have other theories on the soul and spirit, one of which is that the soul and spirit resides in the left toe. I have not gathered enough evidence that it may have anything to do with the left toe either, but its a possibility.

Thank you for your sense of humor.

I have heard that people without a left toes are more bizarre and possibly more evil, and there possibly could be evidence or a correlation that some of the most evilest people in history like Hitler had a mangled left toe or possibly even a missing left toe, which probably lead to there evilness. One could always test this theory by amputating there left toe, but then there is always probability of a possibility that what if the theory is right.

A valid observation.

In fact I have other theories on what spirit is and what a soul is, then the above, or the above o post. But of those theories you will not hear because there a bit hard to understand and a bit far out there, I am afraid your just to childish to hear of them as of yet, as there likely to blow your mind. Like booom wow.

If you're going to let your fear control you like that, then feel free. I can't miss what I've never read.

dont have to change and believe my theory on the soul and spirit. I do not think that you will change or anybody will change all that much if they found out Jesus was not real. After all its just as likely that man created god, as it is that god created man, or who knows maybe they even created each other.

It seems more and more obvious recently that man is no longer interested in truth. All he wants is a good story to lull him to sleep at night, and a good story to wake up to, to convince him that life is indeed worth living. In a world constructed of lies, what's the point of a painful truth? Better to have a lie that serves us better in the short time we're alive.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

If you're going to let your fear control you like that, then feel free. I can't miss what I've never read.

What is this thing called fear that you speak off.