Alien Hypothesis

OK...this is my method for figuring things out...much like the Drake equation.

Out of an infinite universe...it is highly likely there are thousands if not billions possibly event trillions of advanced civilizations....remember...its a very big place...the universe.

So think big.

Now out of many..many..many.. alien civilizations...many of them will have figured out warp drives...or other such methods to travel huge distances fast. Remember infinite universe...

So...out of the aliens that can travel wherever they wish...what would be their motivation.

well...why does anyone travel...animals do it to follow the weather and food..people follow the weather too...they also have an urge to explore just to discover new places and species and to document them and use the knowledge to advance science...back in the day this exploration was done to expand empires more often than not.

So out there...in the infinite universe..most likely there are exploring aliens...probably looking to document other planets and possibly looking to expand empires.

Now if these aliens are advanced enough to be able to warp space...then you can also assume they can cloak their ships...and you can also assume they can do a whole bunch of other things we have not even though up yet.

So you can theories that Alien nano particles floating in the air.. disguised as dust...are documenting our every move and thought. i mean that concept is already in R&D on this planet after all..so not far so fetched.

Or that the aliens are so far advanced that we are not even real...we are just part of a simulated reality within an alien super computer...crazy idea...but one taken seriously by some scientists.

And then you can think about this....what if the aliens look like us...and are already well infiltrated within our society...what if we are simply the unsuspecting off spring of aliens...The Bible and every other religion pretty much state as much....

Well....one thing is for sure...it makes no difference to my life either way...if they are here, and my guess is they probably are..then they aint helping me out...just observing...maybe taking notes...to hold it all against us on judgement day haha...

reply to post by TheBlackHat


You make a large number of optimistic assumptions.

What if, for instance, there are these supposed trillions of civilizations, but, universal physics are such that no matter the advancement faster than light travel, wormholes, stargates and other such science fiction are just that; fiction?

Such would relegate all civilizations to a plant-like state, rooted to their general locality, only really capable of exploring the greater universe through sending out slow robotic probes.

Certainly such would suck, but, we've yet to detect any sign or symptom of any other life anywhere else on any scale as could be imagined were faster than light travel possible.

you lost me
and I stopped reading
@ warp drive...

thought this thread
was about aliens
not star trek....



Drake Equation

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
OK...this is my method for figuring things out...much like the Drake equation.
snip

Your "method" leaves a left a lot to be desired. You start off and base your "method" on one that is itself questionable. Drake's equation starts with zero and ends with zero for he had no evidence to base his equation on. It's strictly theoretical, meaning he came up with it out of thin air.

The problem with "thinkers" such as you is that you don't have much to go on and even if you had something to go on it isn't much!

Come up with a more interesting subject 'cause you ain't going nowhere with this one.

reply to post by Druscilla


Do you really think an advanced civilization would want to be found by our barbaric and destructive species? Surely if this species was any more advanced then us, then they could easily hide there existence from us.

Its possible that they would suppress any attempts we make at make such discoveries that would give us the ability to find them. Heck you could be one right now!

reply to post by TheBlackHat


You do bring up a couple good points.

Why would aliens travel? Are they just on vacation cruising the great Milky Way or is it a business trip. I have always thought if we are visited or have been visited by aliens it isn't for them to 'save us' or share their technology.

Honestly why would they do that? Would you venture into the Amazon jungle in search of some lost tribe to show off your new iphone? Probably not but if you want to go ahead.

If they are cruising the universe I bet they are looking for food or other resources or both.

So when they decide to they will enslave us or eat us or do whatever they came here to do but I bet it won't be to make friends with an inferior species. Maybe if you're lucky they'll take you home as a pet hey it's better than becoming a hamburger!

The last couple of sentences you assume "they" are here already among us disguised. With the example of "nano particles" and other possible conclusions, why do you just assume they aren't helping you?
Your utmost gratitude could be focused on these elusive visitors for some hypothetical reason or another.

reply to post by TheBlackHat


IMHO, if we take all the publically known data and apply it scientifically we will come to a conclusion close to the one I am about to state.

OP you have a lot of it right IMO.

We are either, a naturally evolved race, and they are here just observing us.

We were created totally by outside sources for some as yet unknown to the general public reason.

We were an avanced animal race, that they came across and uplifted, through genetic manipulation and or selective breeding. Only have directly interfered in our evolution, now by the laws of intergalactic space, are responsible for us and all our misdeeds. Having opened pandoras box, they had to lead us towards enlightenment, as we are a stubborn people, and would not be shown, we have to learn the way for ourselves. So they taught us religion, to force us to behave better through fear, and reward. Your basic carrot and stick method, it works on all animals.

So now we are coming of age, and are either about to be brought up to spedd so to speak, or are about to be judged, as ready for the next step or are needing further shaping, as underlined by the uplift process.

It is no different than the way we created dogs from wolves, we only allowed the ones with the traits we wanted to breed, when we didn't like the outcome, we again further modified them, until now we have many kinds with many traits, to serve many different uses.

We have and do engineer life to serve us, even as "cave men", why is it so hard to believe one of the obvious millions of other races in our galaxie not be able to do the same thing?

reply to post by Druscilla


Even with robotic probes they could interact in real time from any disctance with them, so it isn't so slow.

Quantum entanglement, is proven, and easily done even now for us, here on earth.

Which means they can send a signal to and from a probe instantly across any distance, as long as entangled particles were at home and n the probe.

A basic mores code would work, but we would be able to make entangled internet in the next 100 years, so they would be able to also.

Problem solved.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
Out of an infinite universe...it is highly likely there are thousands if not billions possibly event trillions of advanced civilizations....remember...its a very big place...the universe.

Yeah, the universe is big, but it's not exactly "infinte," and we know for a fact that there are singular things in it. For instance, how many Earths are there? Just the one. Now, there might be a pretty large number of planets that are kind of like Earth. But that doesn't mean there's life on any of them, much less advanced civilizations. Hey, Mars is kind of like Earth. Is there life there? Doesn't seem to be.

The thing is, unless you can come up with an explanation as to how a bunch of dead, lifeless chemicals one day all of a sudden become a conscious, living thing, you can't say how common it's going to be out there in space. Maybe we're just a weird fluke. Those things happen. Once.

Also, the more advanced civilizations out there, the easier it's going to be to spot them. Massive robot ships the size of a planet zooming around. Cosmic ray beacons created out of tuned pulsars. Radio programs. Stuff like that. With enough of them around, they wouldn't all be able to hide from us. So don't get too carried away, or you won't be able to explain why we don't spot them in the night sky.

reply to post by Blue Shift


You may be right but.....

How do you know that in the entire universe there isn't another planet that can sustain life? You can't know that for a fact unless you're "god".

Plus you assume an alien life form would need the same environment as us in which to live which is not necessarily true. What if they breathe nitrogen or another gas? What if 500 degrees F is a cool day to them or -500 degrees F is hot?

What if they have been here but discovered they couldn't survive on this planet and just moved on for now but plan to return.

When you think of space you should have an open mind. Anything is possible.

Just saying.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Your assuming a lot, we haven't found life on mars for severfal reasons.

1) the last 2 sets of rovers didn't even find life on earth in the deserts and antarctic when they tested them there, yet we know microscopic life exists, you give us too much credit, our ability to detect life isn't very good. Not of course mentioning, until 50 years ago "there was no life on the ocaen floor as light couldn't make it there." Or "we need liquid water for life" yet we now know both are wrong. There are even mamals that live entire lives without ever seeing or touching liquid water.

Stop trying to say that because we picked up one grain of sand on a beach and didn't find anything there is nothing there to find. We haven't even looked honestly.

Every place on this planet we have looked we have found life, life not related to any other tyhpe found before even, we now know life doesn't need oxygen, can live on arsenic, and amonia etc...

Life lives off everything we were told it couldn't even 50 yearrs ago. We are not special, we are one small grain of sand ina desert of deserts.

There is obviously life outside this world, this solar system, this galaxy......

Almost all scientists agrre with me on this point.

Your saying we have to prove there is, when in reality the evidence says there is without a doubt, so it is you that must prove there isn't.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Exactly!

Another thing what makes people think if there is life on Mars it, (they), wouldn't hide.

I mean come on this species from another planet lands a big remote control car on your planet. What would you think? I would probably think what the hell are they doing now? First the assholes destroy their own planet now they launch their junk all over the freaking solar system.

Yup I think I'd hide.

reply to post by cavalryscout


Well we can make it much more realistic even, we will say they come from an ice world, so they land on antarctica, don't find any and assume the planet is devoid of life, this is realistic as it is what we have done on mars.

Not to mention, life as "we" know it, would be hiding deeper, as there is no ozone layer to shield them from the sun.

I think they are intentionally not going to the best places to search, as they aren't looking for life, they are looking for a dof and pony show to distract the masses.

Originally posted by Renegade2283
reply to post by Druscilla

 

Do you really think an advanced civilization would want to be found by our barbaric and destructive species? Surely if this species was any more advanced then us, then they could easily hide there existence from us.

Its possible that they would suppress any attempts we make at make such discoveries that would give us the ability to find them. Heck you could be one right now!

... and here we have more assumptions based entirely on speculation.

WE, in some respects are an advanced civilization. WE are not hiding now, are we?
If there are other cultures 'out there', what's to say HOW advanced they are?

IF there's supposed Trillions, or Billions, Millions, or even just Thousands of alien cultures spotted about the universe at large, there's certainly going to be an entire range of levels of advancement.

Has anyone here actually read any Science Fiction that addresses such questions?

There could be cultures still on a cave-man footing, swords and armor, muskets and cannons, equiv-tech to us, slightly more advanced, medium more advanced, and so advanced that we don't even recognize their technology as technology.

There's also questions of psychology, morphology, physiology, philosophy and any number of other things that can dictate cultural advancement.

Imagine a planet where there is no metal, or at least none in sufficient quantities to make knives, forks, spoons, wire, nails, or anything else we essentially take for granted. How would they advance?
They could advance entirely through biological manipulation perhaps? Manipulating their own biology and other native life on planet, blending, grafting, and becoming something like the Star Trek Borg, but through extremely advanced biological manipulation.

What's to say what 'advanced' is?

What's to say for a fact that anyone else that might be out in the universe is hiding?
What's to say for a fact that anyone else that might be out in the universe is even out in the universe?

All we have right now is sparkle rainbow speculation.

Until we have have proof there's other life in the universe, we are essentially alone.

reply to post by TheBlackHat

So think big.

Now out of many..many..many.. alien civilizations...many of them will have figured out warp drives...or other such methods to travel huge distances fast. Remember infinite universe...

Actually, the drives are more like gravity drives, but they do "warp" space/time when they travel extreme distances. The occupants are within a time bubble, which is how they can produce those wild maneuvers. Of course, this is the atmosphere craft, not the large ones.

So...out of the aliens that can travel wherever they wish...what would be their motivation.

Originally posted by cavalryscout
When you think of space you should have an open mind. Anything is possible.

Realistically, however, not everything is possible. I can't sit here in this chair and also be standing three feet away. And try as I might, I always see things from my singular point of view. If there are millions of alternate versions of me out there, I'm certainly not experiencing the universe through their points of view. Only my own. That's not being close-minded. That's just being logical and realistic.

reply to post by Druscilla


Although I agree on all points save your last, I will adress it first. I think it is very wrong ( much like past and modern science in thinking nothing exists that can't be proven only to have it proven a few scant years hence every single time.) To assume because there isn't proof positive it is wrong, when in fact it is equally logical to say that if it isn't proven to not exist it must. If there is no proof, there is no is or isn't, there isn't any proof of either, so the door must stay open to remain open to new posibilities, other wise we would have no technology as it was all said impossible at some point by someone, good thing people didn't listen and drove on, I don't like to get my women by hitting them in the head with a stick and dragging them home.

On your other points, your spot on, I don't see how you can open to biological based tech but not other more conventional ideas it seems......paradoxical to me, but mehn to each his/ her own.

I think the yuzen vong( think I speeled that right) from star wars are much closer than the borg, as theirs is based on tech like ours only nano, more specifically nano probes.

The yuzan vong employed only bilogical tech, no artificial teach at all, it was against their gods. But the analogue is the same, and I find the idea facinating, as I see us manipulating biology now, not in the same ways, but beginning baby steps along those lines.

Also the assumptions about other races, also spot on, as it is unknowable at the present either direction, but statistically impossible according to what we see and observe here on earth. So scientifically speaking, it is far more likely life exists beyond earth than not, but by no means proven.

Star for you, I disagree on some of your points in this thread, but you words are grounded in logical thought none the less, good show!

Originally posted by inverslyproportional
reply to post by Druscilla

 

Even with robotic probes they could interact in real time from any disctance with them, so it isn't so slow.

Quantum entanglement, is proven, and easily done even now for us, here on earth.

Which means they can send a signal to and from a probe instantly across any distance, as long as entangled particles were at home and n the probe.

A basic mores code would work, but we would be able to make entangled internet in the next 100 years, so they would be able to also.

Problem solved.

edit on 16-10-2012 by inverslyproportional because: damned android makes me spell like a drunk when i spell the words right...ggrrrrrrr!

Ummm.. I think you're wrong.
Quantum Entanglement does not enable matter to convey genuine information beyond the relativistic speed limit of spacetime.
This is proven by the same math and experiments that prove quantum entanglement.

Hence, communicating with a probe that is 500 light years away, still takes 500 years, one way.