If You Are Independent, Please Read

Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
Um vote for Gary Johnson (who will be on the ballot in all 50 states) or write-in Ron Paul, and if your feeling froggy even Cthulhu.....

Know what, I don't know who the heck Gary Johnson is, AND I SHOULD if he is on the ballot in all 50 states, dagnabbitt! (The only reason I knew about Ron Paul early on was ATS.)

Riddle me this, somebody: Why in tarnation was this Gary Johnson NOT up on the stage to debate? And every other candidate who will be on the ballot, for that matter.

This stinks to high heavens, it's all rigged-- the media has crammed Obamanation and Romplestilskank down our throats from the get-go... and systematically ignored Ron Paul (b/c they couldn't find any dirt on him to crucify him) knowing he wouldn't be missed by those who knew nothing of him (so they feared no huge public outcry for their sins of omission.)

Sure, sure, I know I should vote because I have a right to vote, unlike other countries. I have a right to go into a rigged machine that will cast my vote to "The Chosen One" instead of my chosen one. We ALL have a right to vote-- we just don't have a right to have our vote counted towards the candidate of our choosing. How is that any different than countries where citizens do NOT have a right to cast a vote?

I'll answer that: It's not. Plain an simple. Oh wait... it is different!!! The Puppet Masters (via MSM) convince trusting Americans to waste time pushing buttons on a machine for no good reason. (They've been proven to be easily hacked/manipulated/reprogrammed.) These gutless, self-serving aristocrats then snicker and guffaw and slap themselves on the back (every four years) when they pull off this Grand Illusion.

Yay for Democracy!!! (Oh how I wish we could really say that!) Instead we're reduced to BOO for fixed elections!!! (aka Dictatorships in Disguise.)

I have voted every 4 years since I was 18. This year I think my time would be much better spent sitting on the sofa eating Bon-Bons. (Or maybe vienna sausages, since Bon-Bons may be out of my price range these days, thanks to Idiots-in-Office thru the years.)

Sorry for the rant. Please don't take it personally. Guess you struck a nerve. I'm usually all sweetness and light.

I'm confused. I went to star a post in this thread and it simply disappeared, leaving a large blank place exactly where the post used to be. (EDIT: IT MYSTERIOUSLY RE-APPEARED) Also, he/she went to great lengths to explain his issue with a couple of the Thread Author's points. I thought he did so with logic and respect.

The the Thread Author gave a very short response, rudely telling him to go stick his head in a guillotine.
Is this what that "Report' button is for? Here, this is what I'm talking about, here's the whole flow of conversation:

Originally posted by alternateuniverse
You have the freedom to do whatever you like. How about putting your head in a guillotine for the next four years?

Originally posted by Kovenov
reply to post by alternateuniverse

 

But, to sit out this election and reflect upon your in-action during the next four years or even the rest of your lives is very Un-American.

As Americans, “we” always say, “You have no right to complain, if you didn’t vote.”

I don't accept as true either of these statements.

One, is it true that choosing not to vote is un-American? If so then why? Would choosing not to vote be un-American because, meeting applicable requirements, there is a right to vote?

Would it be un-American if, say, a man or woman chose not to own a firearm despite that, meeting applicable requirements, there is a right to own firearms? Would not owning a firearm mean that a person does not have the right to defend against aggression?

Maybe you have a point in mind that justifies your evident belief that not voting is un-American, but I have know idea what it is.

Two, "we" is preceded by an "I" or "me". Put another way there is no such thing as a body of Americans that is not comprised of individual people. Do all these individual people who comprise the United States believe, "You have no right to complain if you did not vote"? I certainly don't, and I am a U.S. citizen. So much for we.

False dichotomies come to mind in that 1) depending on whether you voted you are either American or un-American and 2) depending on whether you voted you either have a right to complain or you do not have a right to complain.

With regard to point 1 I see no reason why exercising the right to choose what someone may decide is the lesser of two evils should be offerred as a valid option. It's sort of like the executioner asking you, "Would you prefer I cut off your head face up or face down?" Either way your head is coming off. And as for point 2, what right are you referring to? Rather, what absence of right are you referring to? I presume you were being as general as you were when invoking the we meme, but I have no idea what right you're talking about. No one may complain unless they cast a vote for the lesser of two evils? Only then you may complain, despite that you cast your lot with the lesser-of-two-evils candidate? Would you even have the right to complain if the lesser-of-two-evils candidate you voted for won? After all, your vote aided in putting him or her in office!

edit on 14-10-2012 by Kovenov because: type

The only thing I am undecided on is whether or not to write in Ron Paul or vote for Garry Johnson. I will be voting however.

reply to post by alternateuniverse


I gave you a star for conceding that "you have the freedom to do whatever you like."

reply to post by Kovenov


Thank you Kovenov. I gave you a star as well.

Originally posted by calstorm
The only thing I am undecided on is whether or not to write in Ron Paul or vote for Garry Johnson. I will be voting however.

Voting is a sacred right of humankind and secret. Although as an individual, you and I are powerless in the corridors of power. But our votes, when combined with others, have the ability to give direction to the course of not only ours, but the path of humanity's progress and evolution, for we share the world.

Thus, we have to take great responsibility with our votes, for it is an individual power,not only for ourselves, but for others as well as the innocent next generations.

The President is NOT yours or my servant alone. He serves ALL, even those whom do not vote for him, for the sake of progress and evolution of society and mankind, which is his responsibility.

In a democracy, he is not the dictator, but work to get issues done based upon consensus of Congress - the elected legislatives of our districts. Thus, he must show that he has the calibre to form a consensus for issues of society to be shared, discussed and debated so that rational decisions be made.

But in the event of a gridlock, he, with at least a big group of legislatives on his side after debates, must have the courage to make an executive decision and be forever solely responsible alone for it, to veto or to executive order laws, for society to progress. That is his power, limited to one or 2 terms only, unlike tyrants.

Thus, when you vote for a President, do make sure that you vote for one who can facillitate the consensual view in the 2 party Congress. Alone, he will only be lambasted and even impeached by Congress whom may be hell bent determined to vote along party lines, not for the sake of nation, as one party had proven over dire economic issues over the past 4 years, hampering the alleviation of common americans.

Democracy is a divine gift.

Unfortunately, it takes time for mankind to be fully aware of what it entails and the responsibilities, as a whole and not as one. Thus, many democracy failed, for many were still ignorant and made use of by the corrupt, as in African and the Middle East in the past. But today, many are awaken.

When you decide on whom to vote, you only need to sit down, be calm, and with a pen and paper, rationalise OBJECTIVELY upon the stands of the candidates on the issues of state, where they stand, such as domestic and foreign policy issues covering political, socia-economic affairs.

Then tick as appropriate on those candidates, whom will have different views, and then base upon the highest number of ticks, to VOTE for him, based on those ticks, and not on personal preferences for the President or Elected Legislatives is not meant to serve you alone, but the ENTIRE nation.

Democracy is freedom for humanity. Freedom is a power to change events, and with it comes RESPONSIBILITIES to others, for no man is an island.

I wish you all the best on whomever you vote for. Cheers! :-)

Voting is a right, not a requirement. So if i choose to not vote, then I still retain my right to free speech. That is a stupid saying....people abstain from voting for many reasons. Me, in this cycle? I don't see a candidate worthy of my vote. Put whichever of those two tools in office you want, i don't care. Flip a coin for all I care. I am tired of having to choose between two dung piles for POTUS.

reply to post by ConspiracyBuff


We should do a write in campaign to show how strong our votes can be. I say write in Jessie Ventura,

Or any candidate that has never been on the hill. I plan to vote for the candidates that are wet behind the ears & vote them out the next term. I pray for a clean state, where the newbies will be too busy learning the curve instead of one that is so entrenched in the Good Ole Boy club that they spend all their time padding their pockets with our blood, sweat and tears.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Voting is a right, not a requirement. So if i choose to not vote, then I still retain my right to free speech. That is a stupid saying....people abstain from voting for many reasons. Me, in this cycle? I don't see a candidate worthy of my vote. Put whichever of those two tools in office you want, i don't care. Flip a coin for all I care. I am tired of having to choose between two dung piles for POTUS.

I am saddened that you would choose not to vote, but still, it is your right and free will that no human can take away from you.

But I hope that you do know what is called 'debt of honor' to society.

What you are today is not because of your own efforts, or even your parents alone. Everything you and I had came from the blood, sweat, and toil of everyone in our society, of past and present. None of us could have built the roads to travel on, create a market to sell goods, or engage teachers to teach us for years, or have a strong security force to look after the free nation, the rights, and us all, etc, etc.

All that we had is dependent on each and everyone of us our choice over the use of our sacred vote, which over the years, had either retarded our society's political -socia -economic growth, or had leaped it forward, as evident by the 200+ years of american history.

Thus every vote counts, and may be the difference between choosing the right man who will lead us to progress, or allow the inept to lead through our apathy to not vote.

In truth, ever since the dawn of american history, WHO had been the PERFECT man to vote to be a president? Was there even one? Fact is, no man is perfect, and all are but flawed.

So will you spend the rest of your life NOT voting because you wanna wait for the Perfect man which do no exist, or would prefer to be responsible, judge the merits of each candidate and choose the best of the 3, and hope that the next 4 years will be kind?

No man knows the future anyway, but what we determine today will determine our future by our resolve. Man will make mistakes, but we do have the capacity to correct mistakes to progress. More so in a democracy and a matured one as USA is, where all have the sacred 1st amendment always, unlike tyrannies.

Wish you the best on your choice, even if it is a choice of not to vote. It's your free will, and consequence as a member of society...to bear.