Absolute Uncertain: A 20 min. Film

This is a short film about Israel's relationship with Barak Obama.

reply to post by dontreally


That was an awesome example of fear mongering and one sided rhetoric. I like how the narrative is simply that we should support Israel without question and to simply go along with anything and everything that they say.

Other than Invade Iran and destroy it, invade Egypt and stop it's democratic elected leader who is not a US puppet, give more $ and military aid to Israel than ever before, stop asking for more lands to not be taken from the Palastinians, what else does this propaganda piece really say? Perhaps in the end it is really just a pro-Romney piece?

CJ

reply to post by dontreally


Shocker - looked into who really made the video - RightChange.com.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Wow! What amazing investigative work. First, you found out who made it: even though it's pasted everywhere on the Youtube page and at the end of the film itself.

And secondly, you said you 'discovered' who created it, but failed to explain the significance of your discovery.

That was an awesome example of fear mongering and one sided rhetoric

So you don't think the Obama administration is trying to weaken ties between America and Israel? Wouldn't that be good to you?

I like how the narrative is simply that we should support Israel

If the question is: support a secular democrat Israel, verse supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, a hardline Salafist Islamist organization, I think you would have to be mentally retarded to see how the latter could be preferable to the former.

In fact, what Obama and his cadres are trying to do is create the circumstances that will lead to Israel's destruction.

Unfortunately, there is a major deficit to this strategy; once you provide Sunni Islamists the medium to destroy Israel, they will proceed in their war against America. And of course the leftists in charge know this; they know that they're essentially arming their enemies.

This is all long term strategy by the Obama administration and his ideological supporters. The immediate result will be this: Israel attacks Iran. America may or may not come to Israels aid, but given they've been involved in exercises with other nations at the strait of Hormuz indicates that America will likely get involved. Iran will fight Israel in 3 ways; firstly, through Hezbollah, whom they directly finance, arm and train. Hamas to the south, although Sunni, can agree with the Shia with Israel as their common foe. Iran may also attack Israel with long range missiles. Eventually, I can't predict how, Mohammad Morsy's Muslim Brotherhood government will find their excuse to scrap their 30 year peace treaty with Israel.

That's the most political scenario - everyone who supports Israel sees it, ignoramuses can't recognize it, while other's actually try to facilitate it.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Wow! What amazing investigative work. First, you found out who made it: even though it's pasted everywhere on the Youtube page and at the end of the film itself.

And secondly, you said you 'discovered' who created it, but failed to explain the significance of your discovery.

That was an awesome example of fear mongering and one sided rhetoric

So you don't think the Obama administration is trying to weaken ties between America and Israel? Wouldn't that be good to you?

I like how the narrative is simply that we should support Israel

If the question is: support a secular democrat Israel, verse supporting the Muslim Brotherhood, a hardline Salafist Islamist organization, I think you would have to be mentally retarded to see how the latter could be preferable to the former.

In fact, what Obama and his cadres are trying to do is create the circumstances that will lead to Israel's destruction.

Unfortunately, there is a major deficit to this strategy; once you provide Sunni Islamists the medium to destroy Israel, they will proceed in their war against America. And of course the leftists in charge know this; they know that they're essentially arming their enemies.

This is all long term strategy by the Obama administration and his ideological supporters. The immediate result will be this: Israel attacks Iran. America may or may not come to Israels aid, but given they've been involved in exercises with other nations at the strait of Hormuz indicates that America will likely get involved. Iran will fight Israel in 3 ways; firstly, through Hezbollah, whom they directly finance, arm and train. Hamas to the south, although Sunni, can agree with the Shia with Israel as their common foe. Iran may also attack Israel with long range missiles. Eventually, I can't predict how, Mohammad Morsy's Muslim Brotherhood government will find their excuse to scrap their 30 year peace treaty with Israel.

That's the most political scenario - everyone who supports Israel sees it, ignoramuses can't recognize it, while other's actually try to facilitate it.

Thanks for the comments - I guess you don't realize that when you watch a you tube vid on ATS it doesn't direct you to the you tube page.

And secondly, you said you 'discovered' who created it, but failed to explain the significance of your discovery

That's funny. No where in my tiny little post did I say I "discovered" anything, but thanks for quoting something that doesn't exist.

Not really ironic this was made by someone who pretended to be an Obama supporter when really it is a political hit piece from a website that has links to michelle malkin (lol).

No, I don't think Obama is trying to weaken ties with Israel. His administration has given more military $ than any other to Israel - and why would that be "good" for me, one way or the other? What a strange comment.

And, the question you pose isn't the question - it is one you simply made up.

Are you claiming the President of the United States supports Egypt over Israel? That is hilarious.

Obama is creating a circumstance in which Israel will be destoryed? Ah, yeah, riiiight. Mind pointing those circumstances Obama created for this to happen again? Are you saying Obama put the Muslim Brotherhood in political control in Egypt? Now that would be a story, eh?

How again did Obama "provide Sunni Islamists the medium to destroy Israel"??
And then this: "they will proceed in their war against America. And of course the leftists in charge know this; they know that they're essentially arming their enemies" Hilarious.

Followed up by the best line of the night:

"That's the most political scenario - everyone who supports Israel sees it, ignoramuses can't recognize it, while other's actually try to facilitate it. "

As I said in my first post, any questioning of Israel means you are an ignoramus. Classic.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

Thanks for the comments - I guess you don't realize that when you watch a you tube vid on ATS it doesn't direct you to the you tube page.

It's pretty much commonsense. If you watched the video, at the very end a design comes up that says 'rightchange.com'.

I made note of it because your arguments and your form are argument are ridiculous.

That's funny. No where in my tiny little post did I say I "discovered" anything,

It's an extrapolation from the context of your post.

No, I don't think Obama is trying to weaken ties with Israel.

So then how do you explain the Obama administrations role in the fall of Mubarak - a pro Western ally who upheld the peace treaty with Israel - and the subsequent election of the Muslim brotherhood, an Islamic extremist organization?

To quote Niall Ferguson (the British Harvard professor from the video):

"the scenarios that the Israelis are looking at involve a transition not to some kind of peaceful and amicable democracy but to a Muslim Brotherhood dominated regime which then pursues an aggressive policy towards Israel; this is a High Probability Scenario"

How can you logically oppose this? It's clear and obvious to any student of the politics of the middle east that the Muslim brotherhood - who maintains close ties with Hamas - will take an antagonistic stance towards Israel.

Obama has also avoided meetings either in Israel or with Netanyahu at the white house or NYC, where the president actually snubbed meeting Netanyahu.

This is not all dreamed up; you have political positions that directly contradict the security of Israel; you have mixed signals coming from the president and members of his administration creating an uncertainty as to the status of their relationship; you have the current chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff saying he wants to part in an Iran war, though he recognizes the existential threat Iran creates for Israel.

If you cannot see how this policy has been bad for Israel - as EVEN THE ISRAELIS say - you are completely blinded by your hate.

Ah, yeah, riiiight. Mind pointing those circumstances Obama created for this to happen again?

You really do not know or care to know anything about the politics of the region.

You want to dismantle my argument, go make a fool of yourself

Heres my premise (if you are educated you will understand the process of my argument): It should go without saying that to prove me wrong, you would have to prove this premise wrong.

Sunni Islamic theology makes coexistence with non Muslims as equals impossible. Their entire history precludes it as an expected possibility. ref: 'Closing of the Muslim Mind: How Intellectual Suicide Created the Modern Islamist Crisis, by Robert R. Reilly'.This book details the theological beginnings of Islam. The metaphysical premise which Islamic thinkers like Ibn Hanbal, Al Ashari, and especially Al Ghazali worked from, i.e a God that is wholly identified with His attribute of power, or will, results in an Islamic theology and jurisprudence that has everything comport to that attribute. This is how all Sunni Islamic Jurisprudence functions: God is power, therefore, we must submit (Islam means to submit). All lands who have not submitted are thus called "Dar Al Harb" abode of war, or the sword, because these lands are both at war with God, and slated for war by Muslims.

I wont go deeper into it than this; my point is, there is a needed background in the theological ideas of Islam in order to appreciate the nature and legitimacy of the threat they pose to non-Muslims. There is also a needed understanding of the politics of the middle east since the British and French came in, and how the presence of modern secularism and technology disheveled the Muslim mentality. This initial 'struggle' in Islam resulted in the collapse of the Ottoman Caliphate with the founding of the modern state of Turkey by Kemal Ataturk, and it's corollary, the founding of the Muslim Brotherhood by Hassan Al-Banna. The Muslim Brotherhood was spurred by the secularism introduced by the west into Islamic societies, leading what hr believed to be the complete perversion in the practice of Islam. Al Bannah envisioned the final goal of the brotherhood to be the resurrection of the Caliphate, with it's capital in Jerusalem.

So knowing this back history of the Brotherhood and it's theological foundations, helping the Muslim Brotherhood get into power - as Obama did (the first place in the Arab world which he spoke was Al Azhar university - the university of the brotherhood) will clearly, undoubtedly, lead to confrontation with Israel.

If you were a better, the odds would be something like 9/10

Are you saying Obama put the Muslim Brotherhood in political control in Egypt?

You really do not understand the intricacies of politics.

By repudiating Mubarak, Obama tacitly lent support to the only other viable candidate to power - the Muslim Brotherhood.

How again did Obama "provide Sunni Islamists the medium to destroy Israel"??

Geezus. You really think you're being smart by replying like that, don't you?? It's amazing how clownish some people can be.

Sunni Islam is the Islam practiced in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood are Sunni Islamists.
The medium in question is the Egyptian state, which they now control. Therefore, Israel is threatened.

And then this: "they will proceed in their war against America.

The Brotherhood is also in Syria - they are the Free Syrian Army currently fighting the house of Assad. As well as in Libya.

The ultimate end goal is a caliphate - a union of many Islamic states. Islamist states currently exist in Egypt, soon to be Syria, and probably Libya as well.

Helping them into power in Egypt just brought them closer to that grisly vision of a united Islamic caliphate.

If you understood the implications of this you would understand why we cannot let that happen.

reply to post by dontreally


This is great. You quote things you claim I said, and then say it's an extrapolation of what I said. Kind of like your entire argument.

Thanks for the primer on the crazy muslims. We know it well here. I guess you are unaware of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Are you suggesting we go to war with every Muslim country?

Are you really so ignorant to think whatever the US said about Hosni M would have changed what happend in Egypt? He was done - he had systematically abused his country to the point that they had a revolution. How, pre tell, was the US complicit in this? How did Obama HELP the Muslim Brotherhood? HOW?

You make it seem like all Obama had to do was say, "leave him alone" and all would have gone back to normal.

You really do not understand the intricacies of politics. By repudiating Mubarak, Obama tacitly lent support to the only other viable candidate to power - the Muslim Brotherhood.

Oh, so this tacit support you claim is what compared to the $billions in weapons he has given Israel? Sounds like the Israelies won that one...

So knowing this back history of the Brotherhood and it's theological foundations, helping the Muslim Brotherhood get into power - as Obama did (the first place in the Arab world which he spoke was Al Azhar university - the university of the brotherhood) will clearly, undoubtedly, lead to confrontation with Israel.

Huh. Giving a speech AFTER THE FACT is NOT HELPING ANYONE INTO POWER - way to "extrpolate" baloney.

And your lies that the President has not met Bibi are just that - lies - here is what Bibi had to say just last week:

"President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke today as part of their regular consultations, and to follow up on Secretary Clinton's meeting with the prime minister. The two leaders discussed a range of security issues, and the president reaffirmed his and our country's unshakable commitment to Israel's security

Netanyahu, who has clashed with Obama over Iran policy in the past, also had kind words for the president's pledge to block Iran's path to nuclear weapons. "I very much appreciate the president's position, as does everyone in my country," the Israeli leader said.

I guess Bibi is full of it.

THIS WAS 4 DAYS AGO

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens

Are you suggesting we go to war with every Muslim country?

Ones that stand to gain a nuclear weapon, yes.

How, pre tell, was the US complicit in this? How did Obama HELP the Muslim Brotherhood? HOW?

Your arrogance is amazing. Not only do you not acknowledge any of the points I make, but you go on insisting the same thing over and over again.

The Obama administration DID NOT LEND SUPPORT to Mubarak. He allowed him to fall by repudiating him

And the fact that Obama spoke at the Muslim Brotherhood Al Azhar university in 2009, pretty much indicates where his interests were.

"President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke today as part of their regular consultations, and to follow up on Secretary Clinton's meeting with the prime minister. The two leaders discussed a range of security issues, and the president reaffirmed his and our country's unshakable commitment to Israel's security

It was a PHONE CALL.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

Are you suggesting we go to war with every Muslim country?

Ones that stand to gain a nuclear weapon, yes.

How, pre tell, was the US complicit in this? How did Obama HELP the Muslim Brotherhood? HOW?

Your arrogance is amazing. Not only do you not acknowledge any of the points I make, but you go on insisting the same thing over and over again.

The Obama administration DID NOT LEND SUPPORT to Mubarak. He allowed him to fall by repudiating him

And the fact that Obama spoke at the Muslim Brotherhood Al Azhar university in 2009, pretty much indicates where his interests were.

"President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke today as part of their regular consultations, and to follow up on Secretary Clinton's meeting with the prime minister. The two leaders discussed a range of security issues, and the president reaffirmed his and our country's unshakable commitment to Israel's security

It was a PHONE CALL.

edit on 2-10-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

SO first you say we should be attacking any musilm country that can get a nuclear bomb - Is Egypt getting a nuclear bomb? I didn't think so - and your contention is Obama is somhow complicit in the overthrow of Mubarak by not "supporting" him. What kind of support are you alluding to? The guy dug his own grave - no one could have helped him.

I acknowedlged every point you made.

Here is a nice set of photos of Bibi and Obama AT THE WHITE HOUSE









Pics of the Imagined Meetings of Bibi and Obama

You neglect what your own leader says about Obama 4 days ago? Hmmm. I think maybe you are just a Romney-ite after all and care nothing about Israel.

CJ