My odd journey into astronaut deaths.

Originally posted by PlanetxIsComing
reply to post by watchitburn

 

Well now it seems to me that these are not natural deaths but murders so what is it they saw and were not allowed to tell anyone..

Can you be specific about which deaths seem like murder for the purpose of keeping the astronaut quiet?
Thanks

I'm still not getting it.

It doesn't matter who were shot into space or why. The Op's original contention was that the majority of astronauts who have died have been cremated. We are getting way off of the topic now with this back and forth over who died and why - none of that matters. It was only speculated that a possible reason for this was because NASA wanted to use their ashes to shoot them into space but that's not been shown to be the case.

So lets get back to the core of this thread. Why have so many astronauts been cremated? Cremation isn't the norm for most people. If the majority of astronauts that have died have been cremated, there Must be some reason that still escapes us.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I'm still not getting it.

It doesn't matter who were shot into space or why. The Op's original contention was that the majority of astronauts who have died have been cremated. We are getting way off of the topic now with this back and forth over who died and why - none of that matters. It was only speculated that a possible reason for this was because NASA wanted to use their ashes to shoot them into space but that's not been shown to be the case.

So lets get back to the core of this thread. Why have so many astronauts been cremated? Cremation isn't the norm for most people. If the majority of astronauts that have died have been cremated, there Must be some reason that still escapes us.

No.

That graphic included in the OP's first post did NOT indicate that "majority of astronauts that have died have been cremated". The OP (and you) misunderstood what that graphic actually said.

I actually directly responded to one of your posts back on page 2, pointing out your misunderstanding and explaining what those numbers ACTUALLY represented.

Here is that post from page 2:

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
...I find it still odd as hell that out of all dead astronauts that so many were cremated-- whether their remains were sent into space or not. In my mind, most people don't choose to get cremated. Even if "A total of 1130 humans have been in space; of which 522 are still alive and 608 have been cremated." is true, that's still very odd.

What you are saying is still possibly confusing some people.


Here is what that graphic meant:

522 people went into space while they were still alive.

608 people who had died (NOT necessarily people who were astronauts, nor who had EVER been in space while alive) paid to have a portion of their cremated remains launched into space. James Doohan (Scotty from Star Trek) and Dr. Timothy Leary (of '___' fame) are two examples. Doohan and Leary are among 608 people who have had a portion of their cremated remains shot into space.

With prices starting at an affordable $995 (U.S.), you too could arrange to have your ashes or that of a loved one shot into space (shot into orbit for $4,995, or sent into deep space for $12,500).

www.celestis.com...

Mods:
I hope you don't consider the above link an "advertisement". I'm linking it for informational purposes, and I think the link is relevant to my post in that respect.

So 608 people (not necessarily astronauts) have had a portion of their remains flown into space. The numbers say nothing about how many astronauts have been cremated after their deaths. There is one astronaut (Gordon Cooper) who will have his ashes flown into space by Celestis Corporation.

Other posters (starting on page 1 and continuing to page 2) pointed out the OP's confusion, and the OP has since agreed that he misunderstood the the numbers represented in that graphic.

Originally posted by itsnotme
what is the point you are trying to make
ive read the thread twice and still dont get what you are trying to say
could you clear this up for me please
because im kind of interested in what this is all about

edit on 30-9-2012 by itsnotme because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by watchitburn
I was just doing some more looking into this.
And I came across the Manned Orbital Laboratory. Or MOL.

Apparently its was to be used during the Cold War for all kinds of Military Operations.

American manned space station. Cancelled 1969. MOL (Manned Orbiting Laboratory) was the US Air Force's manned space project after Dynasoar was cancelled, until it in turn was cancelled in 1969. The earth orbit station used a helium-oxygen atmosphere.

The crew rode the station to orbit and returned to earth aboard a Gemini-B capsule that was part of the station - no rendezvous or docking was required. Experiments planned ranged the gamut from military reconnaissance using large optical cameras and side-looking radar, through interception and inspection of satellites, to exploring the usefulness of man in space and test of Manned Maneuvering Units.

Now, this was back in the 60's. But it was cancelled in 69 before the first mission ever took place. Allegedly because it was determined that unmanned satellites could perform the same missions just as effectively as manned mission.

This is just speculation on my part, and I don't know about anyone else. But it seems likely that it was scrapped to be replaced by some more useful project. I mean there was still 20+ years of Cold War remaining. Is it such a stretch to think there were other military missions being conducted.
They had the means.
They had initiative.
Why wouldn't they? I see no reason to think they didn't have men in orbit. If for no other reason than to prove to the Russians that they could put secret manned missions in space.

i was just thinking you didn't include the
Astrospies
makes you wonder just how many have been to space and how many are still going.

reply to post by watchitburn


Very interesting thread, star an flag.. please ignore my above post. while l was reading it my cat jumped onto my desk and rolled over and over on the keyboard, The next thing l saw the screen flickering and that thread had been posted. Still scratching my head as to how he could have done it.LOL.
Peace starchild.

Originally posted by Ex_CT2
reply to post by watchitburn

 

Yeah, that graphic really is misleading--ambiguous is a kind word for it. I kept reading it as meaning: "A total of 1130 humans have been in space; of which 522 are still alive and 608 have been cremated."

In fact, without the context provided by the posters in this thread I would not have taken it to have anything to do with sending cremated remains into space.

The cremains are sometimes referred to as 'ashtronauts'.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
I find it still odd as hell that out of all dead astronauts that so many were cremated-- whether their remains were sent into space or not. In my mind, most people don't choose to get cremated. Even if "A total of 1130 humans have been in space; of which 522 are still alive and 608 have been cremated." is true, that's still very odd.

As a rule, dead Russians are usually cremated. In the US, i don't know the ratios.

I've been to Novodevichy cemetary and photographed the cosmonaut and space engineer gravesites, it's simply not true that Belyayev's is more grandiose. Both Beregovoy and Titov have very nice statuary, too.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
,,,,These days, however, more and more astronauts are academics and engineers -- although the ability to be able to take more risks (since space travel is inherently risky) is probably still a part of the psyche of many astronauts.

I think you're onto something here. I might word it slightly differently: "the ability to keep your wits about you in situations of extreme danger". Astronomer Jeff Hoffman passed that criterion when he described how, during a streaming chute incident while skydiving, he decided whether or not to risk deploying his backup chute by calmly measuring his descent rate and comparing it to expected fatal impact rates. He calculated his streamer wasn't slowing him nearly enough, and cut it loose, then deployed huis smaller backup chute. All with at least 5 seconds to spare. Coolness!

The question of secret space deaths has been fascinating me throughout the space age, and led to a lot of ground-breaking research. I found cosmonaut team photographs where men were airbrushed out, and the photos republished! I came to believe that the Judica-Cordiglia brothers were attention-seeking scammers who were actively faking their 'discoveries'. In the end, I came up with a good case that NO Russians were ever secretly killed on space flights or attempts, despite several initially-plausible leads. And I got one other killed astronaut trainee, from the astrospy program [MOL's Robert Lawrence], added to NASA's memorial at the Cape after years of bureaucratic stonewalling. And I had a lot of fun.

And it's fun seeing folks as excited as ever over these themes.

'NewSpace' will open spaceflight to private travellers and I fully expect there will be new fatalities, including on test flights of commercial vehicles that may not be entirely -- if at all -- publicized. So the range of possible future 'dead astronaut incidents' is even broader than ever. Stay tuned.

On the subject of Belyayev, he did have quite an interesting career.

Hop over to Wikipedia and check out his entry:

Pavel Belyayev

S&F lol, this is the funniest unintentionally funny thread I've read on ATS. It's like a slow satire, and couldn't have been written better if planned. I knew what the cremation meant since the start, so seeing the full scale investigation, with the image of the op going through hundreds of pieces of data to find out if all the astronauts and cosmonauts had died and were cremated (I can hardly type this I'm laughing so hard) but then, after all of that, the follow up posts by people who obviously hadn't read the whole thread and are still talking about how many astronauts were cremated, and why it didn't fit the number quoted....thank you, for a great laugh and for making my day a good one.

reply to post by BeyondTheFold


a p.s. I met Alexei Leonov once, the first man to walk in space, and he was a very happy smiling man. A Russian type of joyous temperment. This was long before he was cremated, which hasn't happened yet.

reply to post by watchitburn


Jack Swigert was a massive fraud no question about tat. My pop was an aerospace engineer. I remember riding home with him fom an early gathering of supporters for Swigert when the late astronaut was gearing up to make his run for congress. I got to tag along and listened as the former astronaut spoke of this and that. My dad was checking things out for not only his company, but some other aerospace interestes in general. He was going to make a recommendation as far as the question "support or no support" goes. It would seem like it would have been a no brainer. But..........I remember how upset my dad was as we drove home to our place in Fort Collins. He said it obvious to him that Swigert never was in a threatened spacecraft as Apollo 13 was claimed to have been. My dad was talking to a friend of his as I leaned over from the back seat, poking my head between the two of them. My dad's friend Ron was also present at the polotical function for the same reason. They were pretty much besides themselves with anger. As I recall Swigert who was a CM specialist gave answers to them about the specifics of the journey that did not square with what they knew should have been the case. Things like how warm the capsule should have been under such and such circumstances, how much energy would have been required to warm the LM-CSM combination, what their experience was when they took off their clothes on the trip, details about Haise's bladder infection(something about that that which they didn't believe). My pop passed away recently and I have his notebooks including his writing about Swigert and his encounters with him. My father was a clever man. He feigned support for Swigert and kept returning to the meetings for a while, pumping the astronaut for information, trying to get Swigert to commit to someting my dad could probve was absolutely in error. Then he pulled the plug on the astronaut. Told him there would be no support for him and why. He of course kept that reasoning to himself. He told his superiors Swigert simply wasn't qualitifed for congress. Swigert won a seat that he never filled due to illness. I may publish my dad's notes in some form at some point. Really interesting stuff.

reply to post by broncofan


Let ATS know if you ever do publish them.

It sounds like it will be very interesting.

reply to post by watchitburn


Be happy to

July 29, 2016

The implications of this far reaching. According the latest studies radiation in deep space causes cardio diseases..even from just a couple weeks exposure.

REF: www.foxnews.com...

Or, could there have been something related to the Moon itself that negatively affected the astronauts' health?

a reply to: carewemust
My money's on prolonged zero-g and reduced-g environment, without the adequate physical excercise. They also went through a lot of stress and little sleep during those missions. That's bound to take its toll on the cardiovascular system.

Modern astronauts who spend months on the ISS have a much better system to keep their physical and mental health in check.