State supported College Sports and Constititional Violations per prayer rituals

One of the issues on the hot seat here lately is the issues of the religious rituals of prayers being used to open up a sporting event. Such makes some unconfortable and others outraged, when the Constitution calls for separation of church and state to avoid these problems.

Are many Colleges and Govt operated schools running over the Constitution Values and Law in the presentation of anything that even looks like prayer for opening sporting events? It would appear to be the case when a clergy person delivers anything linked to prayers or even moments of silence, as that gives endorsement by the University to that religion's clergy and thus that religion and that religion's ritual of prayer.

It would appear that the University of Tennessee is in gross violation of the US Constitutional Values, and even some of the UT law school appears to agree.

One case in point speaks to the problems at Football games in Tennessee:

utdailybeacon.com... campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyBeacon+%28The+Daily+Beacon%29

Opinion: Football prayer may be unconstitutional

On Sept. 17, Chancellor Jimmy Cheek issued a statement that UT will not discontinue prayer before home football games. Cheek's letter was issued in response to charges that UT's practice of prayer before games is unconstitutional. Did Cheek and his counsel make the right call?

Earlier this month, the Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) delivered a complaint to UTK regarding prayer before games. The complaint noted that FFRF had been approached by a UT alumnus, and it provided a series of separate but related arguments regarding the unconstitutionality of prayer before games at public universities. The most pivotal argument put forth by FFRF hinged on the Chaudhuri v. State of Tenn. decision from the Sixth Circuit. To quote the letter directly: " ... Prayers at public university events that are sectarian in nature violate the Establishment Clause. Sectarian prayers at public universities have been struck down as unconstitutional in the Sixth Circuit. ..."

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The most important relevant case, however, is the 2000 Sante Fe Independent School District v. Doe Supreme Court decision, which handled prayer before the football games of a public high school in Texas. The school had sponsored a majority vote among students to determine whether to have a nonsectarian prayer before games, and the court held that "in (another case), the school district made the related argument that its policy of endorsing only 'civic or nonsectarian' prayer was acceptable because it minimized the intrusion on the audience as a whole. We rejected that claim by explaining that such a majoritarian policy 'does not lessen the offense or isolation to the objectors ...' Similarly, while Santa Fe's majoritarian election might ensure that most of the students are represented, it does nothing to protect the minority; indeed, it likely serves to intensify their offense." So, Sante Fe is a big kicker here not only because it is a more recent decision than Chaudhuri and opposes Chaudhuri in its conclusion, but it was also delivered from a higher court.

It would appear that the better stance is anything that resembles prayer at Govt. involved sporting events or state supported colledges needs to not happen. Religion has no real place at football games, no real place at any Govt supported schools for sports occasions or educational processes.


It appears there is already problems in the ranks due to UT-Chattanooga's better decision:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Madison group fights prayer before U. of Tennessee football games

The complaint letter from the Madison, Wis., atheist group arrived last week. An invocation was offered Saturday night before UT's game against Florida.The letter from the group points that UT-Chattanooga decided last week to stop its use of pregame prayer. Chattanooga officials decided to observe a moment of silence instead of having a spoken prayer before its home football games.

It does appear that UT Chancellor Jimmy Cheek is going against the message of the Constititional Values of the US, which would be inclusive of the issues of any minister, aka Clergy, giving a prayer or even moment of silence for any event. imho

The deeper details of the sporting events involving religious exercises and religious representation is contained here:

www.knoxnews.com...

UT will keep prayer before football games; foundation won't sue

KNOXVILLE — The University of Tennessee will continue allowing clergy members to offer a prayer before home football games, Chancellor Jimmy Cheek told the Freedom From Religion Foundation in a letter today.

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The chancellor's letter is a partial victory, she said, since alumni and students who complained to her organization said previous prayers had invoked Jesus Christ, rather than remaining nonsectarian.

Still, the organization will continue to encourage students who are uncomfortable with even nonsectarian prayer to speak out.

"That's a lot of people to offend and exclude, and we'd encourage students to keep working on it," Gaylor said. "I feel that if people who truly are offended speak out, and there are a lot of them, then eventually we will be able to stop this through persuasion."

What is interesting is the UT's own law and political science school brings up the better law and higher court issues for prayers, anything that resembles prayer, anyone representing organized religion speaking the words about prayer with advertising as minister or church related is still a clear violation of the laws of the Constitution at Sporting Events at State or Govt. supported schools or colledges.

utdailybeacon.com... campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyBeacon+%28The+Daily+Beacon%29


Now, the days of sectarian prayer before UT games have come to an end, but some people, like professor in constitutional law Ted Brown, think the situation isn't as black-and-white as simply referencing the Chaudhuri decision. A larger question looms: is prayer, even of the nonsectarian type, before football games a violation of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause?

And the credentials for Ted Brown, and that the UT Chancellor ignores relevant legal opinion at UT:

bakercenter.utk.edu...

Ted Brown is a lecturer in the University of Tennessee’s Department of Political Science, where he teaches Constitutional Law, Judicial Process, and Law in American Society. He is also an adjunct professor of Law in American Legal History at the University of Tennessee’s College of Law.

It may be even more interesting to take note that Clergy gives support to injury and violence of the football game process, and this process of hard knocks leads to impairment of learning for education and also to life long higher risk for illnesses from dementia and arthritic type issues that predispose folks to inflamation oriented illnesses in the long term.

Indeed the ethical issues are two pronged, via the issues of church clergy in support of games that damage intelligence and long erm health, not to mention immediate issues of injury due to violent contact. But also via the very message of Constituitiuonal Law being run over by the wayward ethics of UT's poor leadership. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus


My opinion is that you are right. Religion has no right to be involved at these events. That being said, my daughter and I go to football games as often as possible. Love it. Fun times. Before every game they do have a little prayer, but, honestly I could care less. I am just there to see some footbaaaaalllllllll. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just assume it is for the players really, if saying a little prayer before hand makes them feel better about getting their heads knocked in for my amusement.......more power to them.

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

My opinion is that you are right. Religion has no right to be involved at these events. That being said, my daughter and I go to football games as often as possible. Love it. Fun times. Before every game they do have a little prayer, but, honestly I could care less. I am just there to see some footbaaaaalllllllll. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just assume it is for the players really, if saying a little prayer before hand makes them feel better about getting their heads knocked in for my amusement.......more power to them.

Thanks for your views.

It gets interesting when one considers the issues of Jerry Sandusky and the bigger issues of the Catholic Church being so similar. Both are issues where the laws were ignored due to the might of the institution, which isn't supposed to happen, ever.

In the issues of prayer at state Colleges appears as a marriage of church to state, and again the values of the Constititional Laws and intentions are tossed out the window. An example of the thinking that leads to this:

articles.mcall.com... te

Like Catholic Church, Penn State kept abuse secret

The phenomenon at work in both the church's global response to pedophile priests and Penn State's response to a single molester in the ranks of its athletic staff has been a factor in the downfall of institutions and governments throughout history, said the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a canon lawyer who has testified in clergy abuse trials in North America and Europe.

"Institutions at a certain point in their existence become greater than the sum total of the people who make them up," Doyle said. "The institution … becomes more sacred than the people it's supposed to serve."

At Penn State, the institution was largely defined by football, Doyle said.

Responsible for Penn State's prestige and position on the national stage, the football program and its leader for more than 40 years, Joe Paterno, are often credited with building the university from a small agricultural college to an internationally respected research institution by drawing in millions in donations.

It appears the state College institution thinks it is more important than the Constitutional Law involved by allowing clergy, or preachers, to lead any form of prayer or silence at their football games.

Such bold running over the laws, will result in the running over of many other laws, and an arrogance toward following issues such as worker protection laws, drug and alcohol laws, sports athletics protection from injury, and telling the simple truths.

It begins with poor interpretations of the legal precidence for allowing prayer and it multiplies with even greater violations that led ultimately to cases like Sandusky and Predator Priests as they think they can get away with anything.


As it exists on campuses, like UT, the issues of alcohol on campus get ignored by every police in the region for the purposes of tail-gating on state property. Fraternity folks come to games so drunk they can't stand up and have to be walked to and from the game by others holding them up. This corrupts the issues of state again, due to police not acting to do their jobs because getting drunk on campus is suddenly legalized for football games.

Likewise, the police won't enforce the state's smoking rules and that runs out of control at football games.

And the list of issues that breaking the laws for football games allows goes on and on. One even finds a few preachers coming to Games and getting passed out drunk and the local Police making sure they get driven home, with state assistance, in place of being arrested for public drunkeness.

This is only part of what one sees from Football sports greed for money.


Want to really see what happens when institiutions like UT ignore Constitutional Values, the laws in general for football games. Check what was happening at UT for the pre-game party at fraternities where the UT police allow them to get away with anything. The KPD had to be called in and arrests occured, else the UT police would do the usual game of cover up. imho

www.tennessean.com...|topnews |text|FRONTPAGE

UT student hospitalized after alcohol enema

The potential suspension stems from an incident over the weekend that landed a student in the hospital with a potentially deadly blood alcohol level.

Alexander Broughton, 20, was dropped off at UT Medical Center around 1:30 a.m. Saturday, Knoxville Police said.

Hospital staff told Knoxville Police investigators that Broughton was in critical condition and unresponsive when he arrived, with a blood alcohol content level greater than 0.4, which is considered toxic and potentially deadly.

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KPD investigators went to campus Saturday morning and found several other people, including three men, passed out at the PIKE house.


After conducting several interviews, investigators determined the fraternity members had used rubber tubing to give each other alcohol enemas. Police said the practice heightens and speeds up the process of alcohol entering the blood stream because it bypasses the liver's filters.

www.tennessean.com...|topnews |text|FRONTPAGE

12 cited with underage drinking at UT frat house after 'butt chugging' incident

Broughton registered 4.0 when his blood-alcohol level was checked early Saturday at UT Hospital. Campus police are investigating reports that the student had ingested alcohol rectally. Police said when they arrived at the fraternity house, they found several people passed out.

Such drunken bahaviors have long been the norm for many fraternities for game day party time. Such violations of the Constitutional Laws appear to already be well on the way toward destruction of the institution. imho

reply to post by MagnumOpus


I think if you are sticking tubes in your ass and filling it with alcohol it isn't due to pregame parties or anything like that. It is because your a stupid idiot, and you just can't fix stupid. There is no therapy or cure for that.

Originally posted by billy197300
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

I think if you are sticking tubes in your ass and filling it with alcohol it isn't due to pregame parties or anything like that. It is because your a stupid idiot, and you just can't fix stupid. There is no therapy or cure for that.

Such is definitly over to top and I think more a sign of a University with no rules for game days. Game days on the UT campus are days the general rules get tossed out the window to cultivate game attendance from even problem people. The cops don't even look twice at drunk students or fans. Students run around falling down drunk to games. Preachers get drunk at game day festivities and pass out and urinate in people's chair. Other fans get their wives to hold up a coat so they can relieve themselves over the side of the stadium onto who knows below them 50 ft below, because they can't walk to the rest rooms.

If there were rules, in place of the cops working for the University and becoming the eyes wide shut methods to insure more drunk fans and students come to the games, the Frat extremes might not occur. All kinds of things happen from a general aire of dishonesty the game day provides. Parking lot attendants take nice food bribes to let their buddies park essential for almost free. All the fans have learned to by-pass the metal detectors and pockebook search methods and hide alcohol filled zip lock bags in their pants, bras, etc. Only the few dumber fans carry a bottle or flask and get caught tryng to get alocohol into games. The other 99 percent successful ones buy the cokes and load them up from the zip-lock bags and the games are loaded with drunk people.

The football fans often cheat on everything from public drunkeness to smoking in state building areas, and basically they do it with impugnity. The same extremes rub off on the Frat Brothers as they try to top others outrageous stories on drinking. It is this UT atmosphere that opens the door to many of these extremes, because most know nothing is going to be said.

Seems like the Morning TV show is coming to UT soon, so all the audience folks need to make sure to mention just how poorly the University is operated in their designs for money and letting the public pretty much run wild.

On game days, the police turn into PR assistants that act more to cover up problems, as they are paid by the atheletic department. They no longer do their usual police duty, which is all part of the game day corruption. imho


The lastest on the game day wine enema deal is the Frat Members appear to be mounting an effort to say the Knoxville Police Contrived the story:

www.tennessean.com... AGE&nclick_check=1

Father of UT student says 'alcohol enema' never happened

The father of the 20-year-old University of Tennessee student who went to the hospital with a dangerously high blood alcohol level after an alleged 'alcohol enema', told 10News the incident never happened and that Knoxville police officers originated the idea.

It should be very interesting to read the Police Reports. One must wonder just how much damage control the Frats are trying Vs, if the Police screwed up this badly. imho

One gets to see the violations of alcohol on campus with some interesting photos of a Frat House that looks more like a trash dump worse than the Epic Animal House movie:

www.wbir.com...

Photos reveal trash, blood in aftermath of UT 'alcohol enema' incident

Newly released photos from the University of Tennessee Police Department show a fraternity house littered with boxes of wine, trash and blood in the aftermath of an alleged 'alcohol enema' incident at the Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity over the weekend,

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His injuries led officials to believe he may have been sexually assaulted, so Knoxville police officers specializing in sexual assault were brought in to investigate, according to the report.

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The mother of a Pike freshman called to anonymously report that, while a pledge was being forced to do push-ups, a fraternity member "mashed" the pledge's face into the floor, causing injuries that sent him to the hospital. She reported he was diagnosed with a concussion.

Alas, what about the student-athletes right to free expression?