4 dead in NY from brain disease.

But you do realize this story will probably go cold. I will try to keep an eye out, but I just think the news will stop.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Is there really a hospital named after me? What an honor and a surprise. It sounds a lot better than Grady's Pub and Grub.

Grady, I'd prefer the pub personally. Generally, more happy times happen at a pub than a hospital (births excepted).

Being from upstate NY I find this thread interesting so far, and continue reading. The brutal truth is, all of us that eat beef are at risk -- how do we really know until it's too late? Do we all become paranoid about a little depression as that's one of the initial symptoms? What about when you get dizzy from jumping up from the couch too fast? I'm all for denying ignorance but sometimes I wish we just didn't know.

No comment on this vis a vis Titor. For the record: it's not always possible to tell the difference between CJD and vCJD; there have been some studies done, unless I'm misremembering what I've read, that indicated the distinction between the two diseases (or at least the ability to tell the two apart once the symptoms are in full swing) is less clear-cut than one might think.

In any case, it looks like the likely story here is someone contraced one or the other of the CJDs, and the infectious agent was passed around by way of neurosurgery; since all the victims are old they'll likely be classed as regular CJD, although if one is officially diagnosed as vCJD then we'll have an interesting story. For my part, I've given up eating beef for now, because I don't think the current USDA approach to testing for and managing the risk of madcow is sufficient. Since I can't afford Japanese beef -- Kobe beef's good, but costs more than I care to pay -- for the moment I'm just not eating beef, which is a shame.

The problem with sanitizing the surgical equipment is that to remove a prion contamination, you have to completely destroy the prions themselves. Getting rid of bacteria and fnugi is easy -- you just heat them up, then they die, and become no longer harmful -- but thoroughly denaturing the prion proteins probably isn't nearly so straightforward.

Originally posted by sisonek
The problem with sanitizing the surgical equipment is that to remove a prion contamination, you have to completely destroy the prions themselves. Getting rid of bacteria and fnugi is easy - you just heat them up, they die, and become no longer harmful - but thoroughly denaturing the prion proteins probably isn't nearly so straightforward.

OMG!Not that easily destroyed. So then it would be possible to go to the DDS, and possibly contract CJD/vCJD??? I see it as it could be. Surgical equipment is also used by a DDS.
This is not good.
Prion:biology infectious protein particle: an infectious particle of protein that, unlike a virus, contains no nucleic acid, does not trigger an immune response, and is not destroyed by extreme heat or cold. These particles are considered responsible for such diseases as scrapie, bovine spongiform encephalopathy, kuru, and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.
Not good! Not good at all...

I turned down a McDonalds cheesburger today...

After reading the article and the prior research I had put into the subject... I just can't eat beef anymore.

Has anyone else changed their eating habits? I know I am!

.
shorthand:

ground meat = mystery meat. vCJD?
meat byproducts = mystery meat. vCJD?

If it isn't a whole chunk of muscle tissue, Don't eat it.
Check labels for 'meat byproducts'.

Note: Gel Caps made with downer catttle. vCJD?

Trust the government? Not with MY life.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by slank]

Originally posted by Ghoztface
I turned down a McDonalds cheesburger today...

After reading the article and the prior research I had put into the subject... I just can't eat beef anymore.

Has anyone else changed their eating habits? I know I am!

Yes. Although I have to say that the movie "Supersize Me" did the job for me. I have not been out to eat fast food since viewing that movie, and I feel much better because of that. This CJD thing scares the "you know what" out of me, since I'm a bit of a Hypochondriac anyhow, maybe I need to become a Vegan

I fear.

It's times like these that I'm glad I'm a vegitarian.

Have they really found no cause of death for the fourth victim?

Once I saw that, I immediately thought, "Well, medical conspiracy, duh."

But that's paranoid lunacy.

I hope...

this si proof John Titor s story is real. and very very creepy that thats true cause that means our time here is VERY limited. God be with you and to you non believers........God help you!

Originally posted by muttmutt
this si proof John Titor s story is real. and very very creepy that thats true cause that means our time here is VERY limited. God be with you and to you non believers........God help you!

... What's proof that it's real?

I'll choose to pretend that you never proposed the God solution.

Oh Great! Now I've got to be afraid of meat, the hospital, leather products and the dentist! What next!
Or could it be that when medical science can't figure something out its easier to blame it on a controversial disease. Just blame it on mad cow disease its easier to avoid a law suit that way
Now I'm hungry! I'm driving to McDonalds for a burger. But wait, how many people died in traffic accidents last year?

Sorry, I could not resist! Go ahead and flame me. I deserve it.

I might have to drop meat altogether after this. This is just way too unnerving.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
I might have to drop meat altogether after this. This is just way too unnerving.

I'm not so certain that would help after reading some of the information here.

www.cdc.gov...

Lot of info over my head, but it seems it is a man made [created unintentionally] biological whatever that vigorously attacks the neurological system, and appears to be mutating rapidly.
Past the point of return, we are.

TUT

Just got through reading this, amazing how events unfold. Explains the mysterious deaths of Elk near Yellowstone.

Chronic Wasting Disease and Potential Transmission to Humans

www.cdc.gov...

[edit on 19-10-2004 by tututkamen]

[edit on 19-10-2004 by tututkamen]

Hey folks. just a little bit about what I know re: nvCJD or CJD.

First of all, the question about the dentist: Prion diseases are not very likely to spread via contamination of these types of instruments. Spongiform encephalopathies tend to be diseases of neurological tissue specifically, not oral tissues. This is NOT to say you absolutely couldn't contract it from your dentist, just that it is very unlikely.

Sterilization of instruments contaminated with prion diseases is virtually impossible as the proteins are very stable.

The infection is not postulated to be caused by microorganisms. Rather, this is a rare example of infection via nucleation.

The prion proteins that cause these diseases are proteins that naturally occur in living organisms. The infectious proteins, or prions 'show' the native or natural proteins how to fold the wrong way. The disease progression from that point is based on the proteins folded the wrong way 'showing' the proteins that are folded correctly the wrong way to fold. Essentially a form of molecular peer pressure.

For more info: RE: this topic please read: Richard Rhoades, "Deadly Feasts," for an exceptional explanation of prion diseases.

BTW, I have been a vegetarian for nearly 15 years.

Thanks for reading and thanks for your input.

Matt.

OMG!!!
elections / Bush / Kerry / brain death ..... was it some sort of overload???

Thanks for the info on prions and the DDS. I was really concerned.
Have you found any links on this? If so kindly post them.
Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by LL1
Thanks for the info on prions and the DDS. I was really concerned.
Have you found any links on this? If so kindly post them.
Thanks in advance!

I didn't find that info on any specific site. I was basing on the known mechanisms of transmissable spongiform encephalopaty (TSE) infection in humans. There seem to be three known routes of 'infection.'

CJD is acquired through accidental exposure to material contaminated with CJD prions. Grafts of dura mater taken from patients with inherited CJD have transmitted the disease to recipients. Corneal transplants have also inadvertently transmitted CJD to unwitting patients. Instruments used in brain surgery on patients with CJD have transmitted the disease to other patients. Two years after their supposed sterilization, these instruments remained infectious. Over 100 people have acquired CJD from injections of human growth hormone or human gonadotropins prepared from pooled pituitary glands that inadvertently included glands taken from humans with CJD.

There is evidence to suggest that nvCJD is contracted form eating beef infected with mad cow disease. The scariest part about this is that it's not really discussed whether these people were eating nervous tissue, whether the beef infected with nervous tissue or what. There is some comfort in that fact that these individuals seem to posses a particular mutation at postion 129(protein number) of the gene.

Kuru was seen exclusively in cannabalistic tribes in New Guinea. This disease disappeared when these people stopped eating their dead.

There is some evidence to suggest an inherited route for these disease too.

I didn't not find any info specifically about dentists, but based on this stuff, you can be reasonably well assured... as sure as you can about anything.

If you are interested in learning more for yourself. I would start at Prusiner's site.

www.ucsf.edu...

Also try these, which you've probably already found yourself:

www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk...

www.cjdsurveillance.com...

www.genethik.de...

Originally posted by tututkamen

Just got through reading this, amazing how events unfold. Explains the mysterious deaths of Elk near Yellowstone.

This is one of the parts I find most disturbing, massive deaths of deer and elk, etc. But one may ask, how are they contracting it?

The explanation being given at the site I linked to earlier in this discussion is basically this, they have been eating the feed of our farm cattle. (Granted we now have more stringent guidelines regarding enhancing feed with animal parts, but it's not enough and it's pretty late in the game. Meanwhile our testing in the US for mad cow is still far from the level of comfort in my opinion.)

Question number two then becomes, well, then why aren't our cattle dying off in these numbers and why aren't more cases of mad cow being found.

Explanation - These prion diseases take a few years to manifest. Most cattle is being slaughtered too young in life for the disease to manifest, even if they have it.

Question number three - the scary one. Can the disease be contracted by eating the meat of an animal that has not actually developed symptoms?

Answer - no one knows.

Here is an update I just came across. FBI

WASHINGTON, Oct. 29 (UPI) -- Federal officials have investigated 20 cases for possible human mad cow disease in the last 10 years in New York, where state officials currently are looking into a cluster of five cases of a related disease, United Press International has learned.

Five cases of what initially appeared to be a fatal, incurable brain illness known as Creutzfeldt Jakob disease recently have been reported in Ulster county and surrounding areas in southern New York.

The cause of CJD is unknown, but it is such a rare disease -- striking only one person out of a million on average -- that a cluster of cases appearing in a small area would be unusual.
www.upi.com...

Originally posted by tututkamen
The cause of CJD is unknown, but it is such a rare disease -- striking only one person out of a million on average -- that a cluster of cases appearing in a small area would be unusual.
www.upi.com...

Excellent find Tut, this is definately a situation that should be watched and any further information is appreciated.

Thanks for staying on top of it!