Muslim Actions a Reflection of Prophet Muhammad?????

So as my Guru stated to me. Judge your guru by results. If this is indeed a litmus test for a teacher, prophet or guru, what must the actions, reactions, and revenges perpetrated on people in general, not only Americans say about the teachings of Muhammad.

He evidently taught it is okay to kill those that don't believe, kill those that mock, do not forgive those who have done you wrong, and strike terror into those who you hate and to those who are innocent.

Does any of this sound like a man of God? A prophet given an awakening from God to lead a people. I don't think so.

I'm sorry I don't think that God has anything to do with Islam.

It sounds like to me that Islam has declared war on the West and Christianity. We accidentally burned their Holy book, but they have openly burned our Bible and our Flag.

Maybe it is time to accept the possibility that we are already at war with Islam.

reply to post by prophetboy12


I can't really agree with your guru.
There have been plenty of atrocities done in the name of Jesus through the centuries, but I do not believe anyone can lay the blame for that on Jesus.
Jesus taught peace, but, since most people during those centuries weren't allowed to actually read the Bible, they had no idea what Jesus actually said and taught.

From the beginning that false prophet, Moohameed, terrorized people into joining his false religion. Convert or die is and always has been the Islamic philosophy.

The basic idea of your post is correct though - Islam was, is and always will be brutal.

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by prophetboy12

 

I can't really agree with your guru.
There have been plenty of atrocities done in the name of Jesus through the centuries, but I do not believe anyone can lay the blame for that on Jesus.
Jesus taught peace, but, since most people during those centuries weren't allowed to actually read the Bible, they had no idea what Jesus actually said and taught.

From the beginning that false prophet, Moohameed, terrorized people into joining his false religion. Convert or die is and always has been the Islamic philosophy.

The basic idea of your post is correct though - Islam was, is and always will be brutal.

That is something I would agree with what you said about the masses being illiterate and only being told what the Bishops and priests said. We know the Viking Age ended by Scandinavia becoming Christian and there were priests who were loving and did teach truth.

I think the King James Bible leveled the playing field because now all Christians could have a Bible in their homes and could read it themselves. George Fox of the Quakers believed in peace through peaceful means, but was very firm. In his letter, To the Turk
He did not sound very pleased but he was very right.

for by your Muhammad have you been deceived, which saint is set up;

And this is what the Muslims were doing to captive men....

Did ever Mahomet give you authority to rob, spoil, and take the goods of those who do you no harm, and keep captives the bodies of them, and sell them; or to beat upon the feet, belly, or back, them which are so taken, to make them promise more money for their ransoms than they are able; or to beat upon the feet with one, or two, or three hundred blows, and hang up by the heels, and beat them which you have taken captives, because they refuse to lie with your men, as a man lieth with a woman. And is it not contrary to your very wild bulls, horses, rams, and he-goats, and other wild creatures and brute beasts?

George Fox was using the Quran against them, forcefully. He was relating about a Quaker man who had been taken captive, then beaten for refusing to be raped by the Muslim men. This was George Pattison, a Quaker ship owner, and his crew.

The fonts on that link were extremely large but they copied it from his letters that appeared in London newspapers.

Have time to watch


Muslims must control their anger': scholars oppose violent response to anti-Islam film
www.islamophobia-watch.com...

Muslims angered by cartoons mocking the Prophet Mohammad should follow his example of enduring insults without retaliating, Egypt's Mufti: highest Islamic legal official said.
The main agency representing Muslims in France also appealed for calm on Friday as a new print run of cartoons featuring a naked Prophet Mohammad hit newsstands, raising fears of protests on prayers day around the Islamic world.

reply to post by prophetboy12


Better dont learn from your guru anymore if your guru really believe it. Guru can only teach, ability to form yourself is in yourself, other only help.

Imagine if this true but we know it is not, there will be to many contradictive guru judging from their result, unless if the guru only had 1 student.

I guess you are a believer too, imagine if this apply to God, judge God by the result, the conclution will be too many and very contradictive.

To observe an object first we had to observe the object. Without it, it will be impossible to to observe fairly.

Peace

Originally posted by prophetboy12
So as my Guru stated to me. Judge your guru by results. If this is indeed a litmus test for a teacher, prophet or guru, what must the actions, reactions, and revenges perpetrated on people in general, not only Americans say about the teachings of Muhammad.

He evidently taught it is okay to kill those that don't believe, kill those that mock, do not forgive those who have done you wrong, and strike terror into those who you hate and to those who are innocent.

Does any of this sound like a man of God? A prophet given an awakening from God to lead a people. I don't think so.

I'm sorry I don't think that God has anything to do with Islam.

It sounds like to me that Islam has declared war on the West and Christianity. We accidentally burned their Holy book, but they have openly burned our Bible and our Flag.

Maybe it is time to accept the possibility that we are already at war with Islam.

edit on 20-9-2012 by prophetboy12 because: changed from period to question marks

The war never ended...for them. They tell their kids stories about the Crusades still, a war that ended 1000 years ago. You have to get into a college history class to even hear about that nowadays in the west. They burn our Holy Bibles all the time, google whats going on in Sudan and Nigeria. You don't hear doodly squat about that on MSM, but if an american drone takes out an admitted terrorist bragging about his deeds on the internet, Jihad time!

Originally posted by 1PLA1
reply to post by prophetboy12

 

I can't really agree with your guru.
There have been plenty of atrocities done in the name of Jesus through the centuries, but I do not believe anyone can lay the blame for that on Jesus.
Jesus taught peace, but, since most people during those centuries weren't allowed to actually read the Bible, they had no idea what Jesus actually said and taught.

From the beginning that false prophet, Moohameed, terrorized people into joining his false religion. Convert or die is and always has been the Islamic philosophy.

The basic idea of your post is correct though - Islam was, is and always will be brutal.

Through the centuries.. Exactly!!

Christians at least have growd up a little and we don't see christian mobs burning embasies and murdering in the name of god anymore.

Muslims still live in the 15th century!!

Their beliefs and actions have not changed with the times.

Islam is a hatful, arrogant, brutal and unjust religion.

I have heard islamic clerics preach death to un-believers again and again and again.

What more really needs to be said about the religion, really?

Everytime someone quotes a verse from the Quaran saying that "un-beleivers should be killed where ever they are found", a muslim will pop up to say we miss-interpret, "islam is a religion of peace".

How can "Kill unbeleivers wherever you find them", be missinterpreted?

Along with around twenty other Quoran verses along similar lines..!!

How are we missinterpreting these calls to kill those who do not believe in the islam book of love and peace..lol

Originally posted by Anonymousman
Have time to watch

Muslims angered by cartoons mocking the Prophet Mohammad should follow his example of enduring insults without retaliating, Egypt's Mufti: highest Islamic legal official said.

The mufti just committed shirk. Mohammed did not endure insults. What is that mufti smoking?

Here are just some of the people Mohammed had killed for insulting, or just disagreeing with him.
1. March 624: Al-Nadr bin al-Harith
2. March 624: Uqba bin Abu Muayt
3. March 624: Asma bint Marwan
4. April 624: Abu Afak
5. September 624: Kab bin al-Ashraf
6. September 624: Ibn Sunayna
7.July-August 625: A One-eyed Bedouin
8.After January 630: close call for Abdullah bin Sad
9.After January 630: One of Abdullah bin Katal’s two singing-girls
10.After February 630: close call for Kab bin Zuhayr

That mufti is denying history, he has to change the Quran and the Hadiths, so therefore he is committing shirk. Mohammed is rasoulallah, the messenger and one to be emulated. It is good that the mufti wants peace, but he should never say Mohammed was peaceful, because that is a lie.

The actions of men are the actions of men.

The bible tells me it is OK to beat my wife, to stone people, to cut peoples hands off, to kill people.
The Koran says many of the same things.

Both books written by men who wished to control other men.

If you want to attack Islam, then you must also attack Christianity and Judaism. They all share similar messages.

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't believe that the Westbrough Baptist Church is a great representative of all of Christianity, then why do you believe Radical Muslims represent all of Islam?

Originally posted by nothingwrong
The actions of men are the actions of men.

The bible tells me it is OK to beat my wife, to stone people, to cut peoples hands off, to kill people.
The Koran says many of the same things.

Both books written by men who wished to control other men.

If you want to attack Islam, then you must also attack Christianity and Judaism. They all share similar messages.

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you don't believe that the Westbrough Baptist Church is a great representative of all of Christianity, then why do you believe Radical Muslims represent all of Islam?

Where does the Bible say any of those things? OK, stoning maybe, but no Jew or Christian follows that. But where is the wife beating and cutting people hands off?

Islamic Misinformation About the Bible

You have to understand one thing, ONLY in the QURAN are women considered foolish, obstinate, and rebellious. So when they say "The Bible says here about fools", actually what they are doing is applying THEIR OWN view as to who is foolish, hence, they THINK this about women, therefore beating wives is ok in the Bible.

The Bible states that fools are equally applied across all ages and both genders. Hence, people are stupid. Not just women are stupid. Should stupid people be beaten? Well, it depends on how much trouble the stupid person caused and what he did. Today, instead of beating stupid people, we put them in jail. Not because they are stupid, but because they stupidly did something that caused harm to someone else.

The Bible says there are foolish women and there are wise women, the same as there are foolish men and wise men. But can you see, Islam does not view men as foolish, only women. Therefore their objections are null and void when pointing out what the Bible says.

Can you see how this concept was twisted by Islam? Do we cut hands off people for grabbing mens'......
Certainly not, and if that happened, the porn industry would suffer in Islamic countries. No more black market porn in Mecca.

There are several things people like you miss when other people tell you what the Bible says, the Bible clearly indicates "IF" you have a slave, "IF" the slave is a girl, "IF" the girl is raped and "IF" such a person does such a thing then this is what you should do about it. But in Jewish jurisprudence in the OT, no one could be randomly stoned, they had to be brought before the judges, THREE of them from the Tribe of Dan, and had to have TWO witnesses who were of high moral character BEFORE any stoning or cutting off hands could ensue. Women had the right to challenge men, women had the right to sue for divorce.

In fact, the marriage contract was given TO THE WIFE, this is the Ketubah. This was a contract between the wife and the husband and they had equal authority in the marriage. Ketubah

Did Mohammed offer his forced-Jewish wife her Ketubah? If not, then it was not a legal marriage for her. What rabbi signed the marriage certificate for Mohammed and his Jewish wife? If there was none, then he simply forced her into an imaginary marriage of convenience for him. Mohammed said marriage contracts are between husband and father, so this cannot be anything based in the Bible.

No, you don't have the right to beat your wife, only the court does after it determines she might have been guilty of something, but then you have the right to say no, not to do this. That is why Hosea actually had to buy his wife Gomer back from the slave traders that took her captive while she was a prostitute. But Hosea loved her, even though she was a prostitute and never beat her for it. If anyone in the Bible had the right, as you propose, then Hosea did. But he never did. So no, the Bible does not allow wife beating.

islamicnafahat.wordpress.com...

reply to post by prophetboy12


If you really want to know what Islam teaches, you have to sincerely seek the knowledge out for yourself. Read the Qu'ran (*gasp* i know that it's too much for most people nowadays) But seriously. Any true knowlege doesn't come from heresay.

He evidently taught it is okay to kill those that don't believe, kill those that mock, do not forgive those who have done you wrong, and strike terror into those who you hate and to those who are innocent.

the verse about "slay the infidels where you may find them" is usually taken out of context. no one bothers to read what the chapter was about from which they took the single verse. it was a war, there was a treaty. so yeah, slay the unbelievers if they break the treaty. of course, i don't expect you to take my word for it, but please, do read the quran, and read the sunnah & hadith while you're at it. in order to speak truthfully about something you need to know it inside and out. now, i'm no scholar, but i sure do my research where my religion is concerned. besides, this is something that the jewish and christian faiths have to deal with too because the old & new testaments aren't exactly the most peaceful pieces of scripture out there. i would like to go further into detail and help you to understand, but i know you have a certain agenda and you aren't going to go mess that up by reading the qu'ran with pure, unbiased intentions. maybe i'm wrong about that, and i hope i am. inshaallah (if god wills), may allah guide you. but know this... once you've angered god to a certain point (by not sincerely seeking knowledge and accepting it where you may find it), he puts a seal upon your heart and you will not be accepted. there is a line, and once you cross it there is no going back. respect and sincerity is key. starting a flame war or judging others while you sin is not going to help you any, especially if you are from an abrahamic religion. god knows best. ask him, he will answer, if you believe in HIM.

eta- forgiveness is very prevalent throughout the quran. you will see it at least every three sentences, give or take a few. forgiveness and mercy are the best of human qualities. just like humility and kindness. i don't care what religion you are.
also, the behavior of those who make the news in the middle east does not accurately represent islam. the leaders of the so-called islamic states are corrupt and install corrupt clergy. the populace is kept in poverty and denied their right to education, so that they are forced to take the imam's word for it instead of being able to seek out knowledge and challenge the qu'ran like we are commanded to by god in the quran. what is happening to day in the middle east has been manufactured, plain and simple, so that people like you will spread the propaganda instead of searching for the truth and being a living example of how mankind should act.

reply to post by nothingwrong


The Bible did not condone any of the things that you say.. People in the Bible did those things . Where do you get this stuff. Are you really that ignorant?

reply to post by couldbeanyone

If that is what it says and that is what they do then it is the truth that that is what they believe.

reply to post by prophetboy12


that's a pretty blanket statement. is that what you think i do/feel/believe? you never said anything about reading the quran or earnestly seeking knowledge or anything resembling thoughtful contemplation.
that said, i am going to assume that anything other than your own opinion parroted back at you is going to fall on deaf ears. therefore i shall not cast pearls before swine and leave you to your world of ignorance and hate. i pray that you open your heart someday.

Originally posted by couldbeanyone
reply to post by prophetboy12

 

that's a pretty blanket statement. is that what you think i do/feel/believe? you never said anything about reading the quran or earnestly seeking knowledge or anything resembling thoughtful contemplation.
that said, i am going to assume that anything other than your own opinion parroted back at you is going to fall on deaf ears. therefore i shall not cast pearls before swine and leave you to your world of ignorance and hate. i pray that you open your heart someday.

I have read the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunna and had many conversations with Muslims. One of the funniest things they say to me when I ask questions, "I'm not an Islamic scholar". Well, if you are not a scholar then don't tell me what it means, if you are not able to understand the Quran.

I tell them always, "right now, you represent Islam for me, so convince me". To which they always reply "I'm not a representative". So then I respond "Well, if you are not the representative of Islam right now, then why are you telling me how to become Muslim?" Then they usually tell me they are going to get an imam to answer my questions. The imam says to me "You need to speak Arabic to understand it" So then I show them the Quran with the seal of approval by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia translated by Islamic scholars. Then they tell me the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not Muslim. So I ask why not? They tell me that no one there is really Muslim. So I ask why not?

Then I ask if they are committing taqqiyah, and they tell me that is forbidden, until I show them the Quranic verse. Then they tell me they are not advancing Islam. So then I ask "then why are you telling me about how to convert to Islam?" At this point they start shouting over me, then saying things like "What about this, what about that?" Now this is an imam doing this.

There you go, Muslims who don't represent Islam, asking for debates of which they can't do because they aren't scholars and not advancing Islam while trying to convert someone. Listen imams, if you got students like this, you better teach them better because they keep coming to us Christians who have to tell them what their Quran says.

reply to post by WarminIndy


i'm not those guys, not a scholar, not performing taqqiah, not trying to convert you. heck, that statement wasn't even directed toward you. we've never spoken and you say that like i'm right along with them. i am a student of life and i respect all life. and i'm muslim. i never asked for a debate. i just wanted to use my right of free speech to make a statement in a thread related to my religion. i said what i could, and it's not up to par with your standards. i'm not a master debator. i'm a person. and from what i read and learn from the qu'ran and hadith and sunnah is not what (in my opinion) this fellow prophet boy is trying to propogate. i'm not an idiot and i wouldn't follow a religion that i feel oppresses people and promotes violence. sure, there are some who claim to be "muslim" that would like to accuse me of apostsy and heresy and want to behead me, but that's not islam. every religion and every book is up to interpretation. i see how you interpret things, and i feel that it's indicative that you might be a bitter, hateful person. that's just my opinion, i've never walked in your shoes. i won 't judge you for it, that's God's job. some people just have their opinions and they won't be changed. so why bother? i'll concentrate on bettering myself first.

Originally posted by couldbeanyone
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

i'm not those guys, not a scholar, not performing taqqiah, not trying to convert you. heck, that statement wasn't even directed toward you. we've never spoken and you say that like i'm right along with them. i am a student of life and i respect all life. and i'm muslim. i never asked for a debate. i just wanted to use my right of free speech to make a statement in a thread related to my religion. i said what i could, and it's not up to par with your standards. i'm not a master debator. i'm a person. and from what i read and learn from the qu'ran and hadith and sunnah is not what (in my opinion) this fellow prophet boy is trying to propogate. i'm not an idiot and i wouldn't follow a religion that i feel oppresses people and promotes violence. sure, there are some who claim to be "muslim" that would like to accuse me of apostsy and heresy and want to behead me, but that's not islam. every religion and every book is up to interpretation. i see how you interpret things, and i feel that it's indicative that you might be a bitter, hateful person. that's just my opinion, i've never walked in your shoes. i won 't judge you for it, that's God's job. some people just have their opinions and they won't be changed. so why bother? i'll concentrate on bettering myself first.

What makes you a Muslim? Are you a Muslim because you said the shahada? Are you a Muslim because your parents were?

Yes, I agree you have freedom of speech. That is the Constitutional right of every American. But you cannot say that Constitutional rights are guaranteed under Sharia law. You know that as well as I do. If you don't know that, then perhaps you have never read anything about it. The best source about Sharia law is Reliance of the Traveler. This book was written by Sunni Muslims. It probably would help you understand just exactly what Sharia law is.

I think most people who read my posts knows that I am a woman. Do you agree that I have half a brain, as Mohammed taught? If I am raped, do I need to find four witnesses? Be Muslim, that is your right, but you will have to realize that the rest of the world has caught on to what Islam teaches. You might say "I don't drink alcohol or eat pork". Is that all it takes to be Muslim? I am just wondering because you seem to paint for us a white washed image of Islam while denying the very core fundamental teachings of Islam.

So you say the shahada, good for you. You believe in Allah and his apostle. That is wonderful. Do you know what your apostle taught? Are you one of those who have never read the Quran? I have encountered many of those who argue about what the Quran says.

It is very easy for you to tell us that you are a moderate Muslim, that you don't do things "those other Muslims" do. It is as though you present to us a very benign form of Islam that in reality, is not Islamic at all. Have you bettered yourself through Islam? If you say the shahada, then apparently you believe everything Mohammed said, correct?

Tell us things Mohammed said. No alcohol and no pork, is that all? Manumitting slaves, yes? Taking care of orphans, right? In all those instances I gave in a post above, none of those people broke treaties with Mohammed. Some were women. One was breastfeeding, another was pregnant. They were killed because they criticized Mohammed. How does it make you feel knowing a woman was drawn and quartered simply because she wrote a poem about Mohammed?

Be Muslim. That is your right. But don't expect the rest of the world to see your point of view when some of us have read the Quran, the Hadiths, the Sunna and spoken personally to Muslims. You keep the Five Pillars of Faith, but do you realize that charity is supposed to be given only to Muslims? Interesting, isn't it?

Personally, how do you defend a man that raped a nine year-old girl? How does that fit within your conscience?