TOLL BRIDGE TAKEOVER ?

I no longer live in the Lower Mainland but have been keeping an eye on this development.

For those of you not living in the Greater Vancouver area, the old, 4 lane (+HOV) Port Mann bridge is being replaced by the new 10 lane, tolled super bridge

The Port Mann is the only way into Vancouver by car from the valley (unless you go ALL the way around and through Mission and Maple Ridge, which would add up to 3 hours to an already very long commute for the majority of folks) so making this a toll bridge is significant.

The bridge is a feat of engineering and a thing to behold. At 215 ft., it will be the widest bridge in the world, and will be the 2nd largest overall in North America.
Obviously, this wasn't a cheap project. The estimated cost was $2.5 BILLION
It's scheduled to open in 3 months (December 2012)

Where I'd like to go with this is regarding the methodology/technology regarding payment to use this new bridge, which in effect has been made mandatory as no other realistic route via car is available into Vancouver.

The Province is "suggesting" that users "register" for a TReO Decal which is "a small, band-aid size sticker that affixes to your windshield and is used to keep track of how many trips you make across the new Port Mann Bridge. From here, payment is calculated and collected monthly using the pre-authorized payment or pre-payment option."
Read: RFID

TReO Decal Info (notice the child and his father happily smiling for the camera)

For those who do not wish to register for a decal, the bridge is equipped with an armory of cameras which will snap photos of your license plate as you drive by should a radio signal from your TReO decal not be detected.
A bill will then be sent to the address associated with that license plate.

Now, I'm not going to rage into fear monger mode and/or blather off on some nazi statist rant but I'm wondering what the rest of you think about this kind of thing.

I understand the bridge cost a LOT of money to build but I also have issues with the fact that now a person is basically forced into either registering for an RFID tag, or assumes they will be tracked via cameras and photographed "for billing purposes", just to enter the city.

VIDEO: Mary Polak / Transportation Minister + some photos

This all brings to mind how the concept of a "toll" may evolve, moving forward. I'm reminded of the movie "In Time" released in 2011. People are engineered to live 25 years. After that, their "clock starts counting down" and they have to find ways to buy/add time or they will die once it reaches zero.
The relative part of the movie has to do with a new interpretation of what "time zones" are.
Moving from the slums to an upper class type of area will cost you "time", as in time off your life clock. It works just like a toll. You approach a toll area where you are scanned and deducted time/life in order to proceed to the next, more affluent area. There is no option to circumvent the toll. No way to get around it.

"In Time" trailer:




What say you? This is definitely a step in the right direction if being bagged, tagged, chipped, and tracked is a future we're manufacturing for ourselves, IMO.
I personally do not support this type of technology and I believe there could have been other avenues approached with respect to billing and/or recouping costs for such a project. Traditionally, it would have been for the city/area to simply raise taxes. I also understand it may seem easier and more convenient (also more PROFITABLE) to install a toll. The issues surrounding privacy and registration however, have me entrenched against it.

Where ever this place is, don't go there. If people stop going there, they will rethink their idea.

There is the NWO at work. Why not a toll booth? Isn't that the way they've paid for roads forever? The toll booth allows anonymity. They don't have to know who you are. Both of the methods you mention involve them getting into your personal space. And it's not necessary. There should be some way for people to stage a massive protest, like for the first week everyone refuse to register for the chip and drive over the bridge with your license plate covered, or something. People have to find a way to take their power back before it's too late.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Where ever this place is, don't go there. If people stop going there, they will rethink their idea.

Vancouver, BC
Canada

It's quite a young city historically speaking. Population of around 800,000 depending on what areas are all included (varies depending on where you look)

It's also quite young with respect to it's attitude. The police there are known knuckle-draggers, and the city has been labelled a "no fun zone" somewhat sarcastically by it's own populace.

Absolutely stunning on a nice day, but does rain a LOT in the fall/winter... just some info for you all

If you don't have to go there, don't. If you do, move to the other end where there is no toll.

Originally posted by Hillarie
There is the NWO at work. Why not a toll booth? Isn't that the way they've paid for roads forever? The toll booth allows anonymity. They don't have to know who you are. Both of the methods you mention involve them getting into your personal space. And it's not necessary. There should be some way for people to stage a massive protest, like for the first week everyone refuse to register for the chip and drive over the bridge with your license plate covered, or something. People have to find a way to take their power back before it's too late.

We had a toll booth set up on a major HWY leading from the valley up into the interior of the Province called the Coquihalla. It had a large concrete station set up where you physically passed through and handed someone a payment. They removed it a year or two ago...

The difference I see having a booth on this bridge is that it would cause so much congestion and that kind of defeats the purpose of building a larger one...

As I said though, there could have been other options but it seems like any excuse to surveill is taken to like a fly to poop

reply to post by DarthMuerte


I grew up not far from there but do not live in that area any longer.

As Canadians I think we're far too complacent up here with regards to our rights and freedoms. We're naturally easy going for the most part, and so when it comes to something like this most of us just take it in stride and don't even ponder on it at all. People just assume it must be for the best :-/

Originally posted by Hillarie
There is the NWO at work. Why not a toll booth? Isn't that the way they've paid for roads forever? The toll booth allows anonymity. They don't have to know who you are. Both of the methods you mention involve them getting into your personal space. And it's not necessary. There should be some way for people to stage a massive protest, like for the first week everyone refuse to register for the chip and drive over the bridge with your license plate covered, or something. People have to find a way to take their power back before it's too late.

A toll booth would need to be staffed 24/7/365 and would add tot he cost of the bridge. I guess it's easier now, with advanced technologies, to just monitor peoples use of the bridge electronically. Most toll bridges already have cameras that monitor who crosses the bridge and watches for toll violators. Covering your license plate could lead to a higher fine if you are caught. I think it's just another standard toll road, but maybe it is part of the NWO plan to track you everywhere

No need to register even:

There are many ways to pay as you go
As the driver of an unregistered vehicle - perhaps as a Lower Mainland visitor, or someone who only makes occasional trips across the Port Mann Bridge - paying for your tolls is straightforward thanks to easy payment options.

Sign up for Pay By Phone to receive a text every time you cross the bridge. Through your credit card linked to your account (similar to parking meters) one push of a button will automatically pay your toll.
Pay online using your license plate number or invoice number
Pay through your bank account either online or at your local branch
Pay at a convenient kiosk locations
Pay at either of our TReO Customer Service Centres in Coquitlam or Surrey
Pay by calling the TReO Customer Service Centres at 604-516-TREO (604-516-8736) or toll free at 1-855-888-TREO (1-855-888-8736).
Pay by mailing a cheque along with the invoice stub.

The thing as a resident of the lower mainland I hate the most about the "new" bridge is that the upgrades to the Port Mann were only completed a short time ago in 2001 at a large cost to the general public. Now we have a highly under used bridge the Golden ears, with the tolls being lowered to try and make people use it. Now they force the main artery through the lower mainland to be tolled, adding a large cost to the people of the fraser valley. Or it's just going to force people to use the two remaining free routes across the Patullo, or Alex Fraser, which is what I figure they are trying to do.

Since these are huge 3 P projects the government in my mind is bottlenecking the major routes with tolls on others to justify the building of these projects as make work projects. They force those unwilling to pay, to use the free routes, those route reach over capacity, then go under review for upgrades thus making private corporations happy too dip there toes in the public coffers for the 75 yr contracts to collect tolls on the bridges they build.

Sad it's going to be a nice bridge but I'll never use it I'll drive around or just not visit the other side of the river unless bye transit. The amount of money we spend on inquiries from corrupt politicians (Clark, Cambell, Clark) or the amount we lost selling by our fast ferries to those who built them, or our national resource privatization, or the crap show that is BC Rail. You'd figure we should have money for bridges and infastructure, but then again I guess not, our politicians have lawyers to pay. This place is sooooo effed can't wait for socialism to take hold again when the liberals lose, hip hip hooray BC is going to crap real fast.


SaneThinking

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Originally posted by Hillarie
There is the NWO at work. Why not a toll booth? Isn't that the way they've paid for roads forever? The toll booth allows anonymity. They don't have to know who you are. Both of the methods you mention involve them getting into your personal space. And it's not necessary. There should be some way for people to stage a massive protest, like for the first week everyone refuse to register for the chip and drive over the bridge with your license plate covered, or something. People have to find a way to take their power back before it's too late.

A toll booth would need to be staffed 24/7/365 and would add tot he cost of the bridge. I guess it's easier now, with advanced technologies, to just monitor peoples use of the bridge electronically. Most toll bridges already have cameras that monitor who crosses the bridge and watches for toll violators. Covering your license plate could lead to a higher fine if you are caught. I think it's just another standard toll road, but maybe it is part of the NWO plan to track you everywhere

No need to register even:

There are many ways to pay as you go
As the driver of an unregistered vehicle - perhaps as a Lower Mainland visitor, or someone who only makes occasional trips across the Port Mann Bridge - paying for your tolls is straightforward thanks to easy payment options.

Sign up for Pay By Phone to receive a text every time you cross the bridge. Through your credit card linked to your account (similar to parking meters) one push of a button will automatically pay your toll.
Pay online using your license plate number or invoice number
Pay through your bank account either online or at your local branch
Pay at a convenient kiosk locations
Pay at either of our TReO Customer Service Centres in Coquitlam or Surrey
Pay by calling the TReO Customer Service Centres at 604-516-TREO (604-516-8736) or toll free at 1-855-888-TREO (1-855-888-8736).
Pay by mailing a cheque along with the invoice stub.

edit on 17-9-2012 by AngryAlien because: (no reason given)

As I stated, I understand the need to pay down the debt created by such a project. the problem I have, is all of those payment options require you to reveal your personal information.

At the very least, you are being charged a toll, and then by making your personal information available to secondary partie(s), it's being resold to the highest bidder.

So from one angle, you're actually paying someone else to make money from the personal info which you are REQUIRED to reveal.

It's been years since I was in Van or surrounding areas. Is the other bridge into Surrey still there? I think it was the Alex Frasier bridge? A little out of the way but an option.

If you need to go through the tolls to get to work, I wonder if it could be a tax deduction? It should be.

reply to post by SaneThinking


Thanks for chiming in. I don't author threads often but the other day realized there were a lot of fellow BC members here so I thought I'd toss up something local and see if it stuck.

You're preaching to the choir my friend. I hear you.

I'm going to try and find a picture of Christie Clark's licence plate and fashion me a facsimile

Originally posted by HIWATT


As I stated, I understand the need to pay down the debt created by such a project. the problem I have, is all of those payment options require you to reveal your personal information.

At the very least, you are being charged a toll, and then by making your personal information available to secondary partie(s), it's being resold to the highest bidder.

So from one angle, you're actually paying someone else to make money from the personal info which you are REQUIRED to reveal.

edit on 17-9-2012 by HIWATT because: spelling

I just called them to ask some questions. You don't need to give them any personal information, aside from what would normally be collected at any toll bridge (based on you license plate). You can go into their office, and make a cash payment, using only your license plate number. I was also informed that there are alternate routes around the toll bridge. The reason there are no toll booths is to reduce cost, and make it so that commuter never need to stop to pay tolls, increasing road efficiency.

They said alternate routes can be found here www.pmh1project.com... But I didn't look through the site yet.

www.pmh1project.com...

Originally posted by SaneThinking
Or it's just going to force people to use the two remaining free routes across the Patullo, or Alex Fraser, which is what I figure they are trying to do.

Right. I made it sound like all other avenues of travel were unavailable. The #1HWY / Port Mann is the main and most used artery coming from the valley going into the city.

The Pattullo is an option a bit south of that, however being built in the mid 30's and also only 4 lanes (2 each way) it sees more than it's share of head on collisions due to no center barrier... increasing traffic not such a good idea methinks

The Alex Fraser bridge over Annacis Island is quite a bit farther yet unless you're already living down there somewhere...

But just to clarify the Port Mann isn't the ONLY route in. I just meant to say that it's the main artery for those living in the valley and for sure the only single bridge that's safe/large enough to handle that much daily traffic.

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Originally posted by HIWATT


As I stated, I understand the need to pay down the debt created by such a project. the problem I have, is all of those payment options require you to reveal your personal information.

At the very least, you are being charged a toll, and then by making your personal information available to secondary partie(s), it's being resold to the highest bidder.

So from one angle, you're actually paying someone else to make money from the personal info which you are REQUIRED to reveal.

edit on 17-9-2012 by HIWATT because: spelling

I just called them to ask some questions. You don't need to give them any personal information, aside from what would normally be collected at any toll bridge (based on you license plate). You can go into their office, and make a cash payment, using only your license plate number. I was also informed that there are alternate routes around the toll bridge. The reason there are no toll booths is to reduce cost, and make it so that commuter never need to stop to pay tolls, increasing road efficiency.

They said alternate routes can be found here www.pmh1project.com... But I didn't look through the site yet.

www.pmh1project.com...

Thanks for checking into that! I don't have daytime minutes so couldn't.

FTR the toll station at the Coquihalla never collected any personal info, including your license plate (which could upon further inspection at minimum reveal your name and address along with possibly other things)

You rolled up, handed the attendant your $10 (if in a car) and off you went.

This bridge not having a station I understand how that makes payment a little more "intrusive". I'm simply saying I disagree with having to reveal anything about yourself just in order to travel. Because doing so is not "travelling freely" and as such does violate ones common law right to travel in that manner.

It's like an unsuspecting frog being brought to a slow boil ... notice how many stores now ask for your postal code when you go in to buy a simple item??? NONE OF YOUR FREAKEN BUSINESS i say

The alternate routes I already spoke to in my last post. It depends where you're coming from, and also at least in the case of the Alex Fraser, the bridge is VERY old... :-/

reply to post by AngryAlien


There are other routes the Alex Fraser being one of them and on any given day the bridge is already a disaster, The Pattullo being the other that bridge is by far the biggest death trap in the lower mainland built when cars were all the size of a minis, not huge 18 wheelers and large size SUV's, scared crapless everytime I end up in the middle lane or next to a tractor trailer.

Thing is they are forcing people now to travel out of the way to avoid tolls and thats what bugs me, And too boot it's not even the province collecting tolls for some 30 or more years under the current plan as we have to pay off the private portion of the P3 before we the tax payer see any lightening of the restrictions, as well using the Coquihalla as an example the tolls were only supposed to be temporary, then were forever, then became politcal fodder and used as a re-election ploy for the hated liberal government (NDP is no better but I digress).

The alex fraser is a great bridge at current traffic levels all be it an accident can bring it too almost a standstill, but add in all those not looking to pay the extra $200 a month to just get to work/school/downtown and you will have an immediate crap show. The truth will only be told after the new bridge is open, and we see how many accept it in the ass, or travel around.

By this time next year they will have done traffic density studies and I'm sure even though they have 24 hour bridge cameras on the Golden Ears as well will have them on the new Port Mann we will see inflated numbers, to justify the projects, but the long and short of it all is fact Golden Ears bridge is a failure maybe a 20th of the amount of people use the bridge that they thought would. Likewise even though it is the main artery the Port Mann I feel will be boycotted all the same even though shorter money is tight and the number 1 past that point even with upgrades doesn't have the offramps and capability to handle traffic anyhow especially when we are just creating bottlenecks further up the system by making people avoid the tolls.

Can just envision what Canada way onramp in burnaby will look like with people from the Pattullo merging back on the number one and all the extra people coming off the Alex Fraser getting back on the freeway....

All I can say is expect delays and some fluff piece from the govrnment about why no one is using there stateoff the art highway....

SaneThinking

edit: was typing feverishly and your post explaining options was there whilst mine in progress