To kill, or not to kill? That is the question...

Prepping for doomsday, especially since I've only been awake about three years now since my fiance introduced the world of conspiracies to me when I was 16, has left me with a lot of questions and confusions.

First off--how much prepping is enough? Second, what am I prepping for exactly? Third, who am I including in my prepping plans? The list goes on and on...

But I suppose the biggest question I struggle with--and I'm sure I'm not alone in this--is this; will I be able to kill another human being?

I have tried to set up a time when I can go hunting for small game, to kill and eat a squirrel or a rabbit. I have been looking into how to hunt, field dress, cook, and eat small animals, but I haven't been able to set up a time or place to do so. I wanted to do this to get some experience getting my own food, and to get a little more comfortable with the idea of killing.... although, I've never killed anything more than a few birds with a bb gun (even that didn't set right with me).

I've always been a little too sensitive and empathetic, but at the same time, I can shut off my emotions for a short amount of time in order to get through some overwhelming situation. I grew up doing it. Still, there are a select few things I can't put my emotions on hold for--like hurting something or someone else, or killing it.

If I was forced to kill someone in self defense, I don't have any idea how capable I would be.

I'm not sure where the moral line is, when and where its called for to kill someone. I personally believe anything can be solved without violence or murder, but in a hostile situation, other people won't be thinking that way. Things will get violent, and we will have to protect ourselves somehow.

Are you storing up guns? Do you plan to kill people? If so, why? And where is your moral barrier? When does it become less of a choice, and more of a formality, to kill?

I've been thinking about this forever, and can't seem to conjure up a clear answer.

Are you planning on solving things without violence somehow, or are you already strapped and loaded?

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Are you storing up guns? Do you plan to kill people?

Don't be surprised if not too many people answer that on a public forum....i know it's regarding survival but you kno who some people who watch these forums will take that.

Regarding the issue though, i think you'll do ok when the time comes and when it's you or "them", or if your life or family's life depends on it.

I've seen the biggest animal love and veggie tick into rabbit stew when thats all that was on offer for a few days.

CX.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Dear XxNightAngelusxX,

Simple question, when would it be right for another to kill you? If never, then you have your answer. If sometimes, then you have your answer. Who do you want to be? Do you really want to ever kill anyone?

You sound like you work for the NSA. (:

I dont think it will be like many seem to think.

Look at other nations that have experienced collapsed economies. I dont think things will turn Mad Max even if the USD does collapse.

Look at the USSR. Look at Spain and Greece. That is your future. Not a Mad Max movie.

Americans watch too many movies in my opinion.

Then again, there are alot of crazies with guns in the US. Maybe the authorities really will lose control. I doubt it though.

Who knows hey?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Think of it this way.

You are killinging in self defense or to provide a meal for you and yours.

You are not murdering.

Murder is taking the life of someone or something with no other purpose behind it other than to leave a corpse behind.

One is justifiable in my opinion while the other is not.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


you would be much better served by working on your diplomacy skills. No matter how well prepared you are you will likely need help from others at some point in time. They will likely need yours. You could have a set of special technical skills that may be needed such as a Doctor, Mechanic, etc. but even if you don't as long as you are a hard worker you can be very valuable to any group. Even if you are not physically inclined and are a book worm type your research skills could be very beneficial. If there is no internet someone would be needed to look up important information the old fashioned way. We will all need to learn how to barter and work together when TSHF and those who realize that almost everyone can have a useful purpose will probably be able to rebuild some kind of a decent society... However, unfortunately, it is very likely that if TSHF you will be required to defend yourself or others with force. Hunting for small or large game is not going to prepare you mentally for that. If you have weapons learn how to use them safely and store them safely. If you do have to defend yourself it might not be easy but you will be fine. However, if you accidentally injure or kill someone before then it would be a difficult burden to bear.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


To Kill or not to Kill.

For me it doesn’t even come down to a moral question. When and if you get hungry enough, you will be surprised what you will eat. Killing for food is a no brainer, of course you will, even if it’s only fish.

Killing in self-defense, or in defense of someone else is also a no brainer, the survival instinct is alive and well in most humans. Would you let someone take or rape your girlfriend or would you defend her and protect her with your life if need be.

Killing to keep what supplies you have will also come into the question, do you let someone else take what you have, putting you and yours in a position where you may not survive or do you protect your resources with everything you have.

If someone comes at you with the intention of killing you, for any reason or no reason, then you have a choice: let them kill you or fight back and win or lose depending on your skill level. If you are able to subdue your attacker then you can choose to let them live so they can come at you again on a future date or you can eliminate the problem then and there.

My advice to a 19 year old would be to go into the military and get some training, four years would be more than enough, I did eight.

reply to post by crazyguy2012


I disagree on diplomacy skills.

If the opposition is willing to kill you for what you have, you have to be ready to kill them. There will be people who would rather off you and take your resources then try to work with you.

If a man needs food or clean water, and you refuse, what other choice does he have?

reply to post by TDawgRex


Life is life as death is death; you don't HAVE to kill, in most cases. In many cases death by "self defense" is a load of BS. You should fight to defend yourself, but defending does not always mean killing. Let's say your attacker is armed and intends to kill you. You manage to miraculously disarm and subdue him or her. At that point, if you choose to take your attackers life, you are committing murder, not killing out of self defense.

You could argue that murder would justified in the case of preemptive defense, as in preventing a person from harming you before they get the chance, or even another chance. This is, however, barbaric thinking and absolutely deplorable behavior.

Morality is a luxury that will be in very short supply in the event of a complete societal collapse. If you really think that you will be unable or unwilling to protect yourself or your food with deadly force, I would suggest that you pair up with someone who is willing (reluctantly) to do so.

I have been a hunter my entire life, and I have never enjoyed killing an animal. Killing people is even worse and causes deep psychological damage to most people even when they are completely justified in their actions. It's good that you have these questions, as taking a life shouldn't be easy or enjoyable.

If it ever comes down to it, I think that you will find that the survival instinct will over ride any objections that you currently have.

If you didn't want to survive then don't defend yourself... simple .. often it is kill or be killed but by then your backed into some kind of corner....

you will have to kill if the real SHTF ... no question in my mind because too many people will try to take what you have.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


How much prepping is enough?
FEMA would have you believe that seven days worth of food and water would be enough. Everything is predicted from Armageddon to Economic collapse.
1. Those who can afford to do so are building fortified underground homes or compounds, great if you have the money.
2. Some are preparing to help their respective communities, this is where I am.
3. Some are planning to live as raiders, not a great idea for long term survival.
4. Most are not preparing for anything because they do not believe that anything can destroy the way of life we have developed with modern technology.
Currently the most likely situation would be economic collapse, but natural disasters happen all the time all over the world.
In a true SHTF situation I would want to have enough food stored to keep me and my group fed for two years, at minimum, and a natural water source. Room to plant a garden, even a small one is better than none.

Despite what some folks read, think, or have seen in movies... killing is not easy.

Everything I have ever shot at, I have killed... be it hogs, goats, buzzards, trabbits, rats, snakes, and most recently my horse.

It is the context of killing and the ethics behind it that count. i have shot buzzards and snakes and thought nothing of it. I had to shoot my old and crippled horse and it broke my heart. Days later, I would look in the pasturte and he would not be there and it started all over again.

As far as ghumans go.. i suppose I could if I had too... however, I subscribe to the old chinese philosphy from The Art of War... if you have to fight or kill... you have lost the battle... the idea being that confrontation is the absolute last resort.

On the other hand, if someone was tearing my door down at 3am and my family is on the inside... I have a 12 guage ready and loaded... again hoping I would not have to pull the trigger, but will if I have to.

Killing and death are so final... sometimes, I look into the eyes of the animal I killed and it is so lifeless... still...empty. Realizing the great sacrifice it made so that we may eat... I do so respectfully, quickly drssing it, and waste nothing.

I have ended up with a whole new respect for nature, life, and living.

What are we prepping for? Living in the country and the way I was brought up... you are always prepping... a rainy day, lost wages, snowstorm, hurricane, loss of electricity, hard times, a poor crop year...

I just picked a half bushel of green beans, pulled tomatoes, fed and watered my animals... and have some late beans and a massive turnip salad patch coming in so we can eat this winter... will keep canning right up till frost in late October/ November... kill hogs at Christmas... always geting up eggs and piles of firewood.

Be it a snow storm or an economic collapse... you prep the same.

I don't think I would have any problem killing someone in self defense or to protect my family. However, I believe the difficulty comes when faced with a not so cut and dry scenario. What if someone comes onto your property and is stealing food just to keep from starving or to fee their children? I think that kind of situation would be the hardest to face and act upon.

I don't think many of us if any would want to kill anyone but in the event that your life is in mortal danger, or perhaps your fiancee's wife is in mortal danger, you'll want to carry out whatever plan is necessary to defend either or both of you. As for small game, I haven't killed any to try the whole survival thing and I can't really kill spiders. But I do know that if SHTF and I need to survive, I'll do what is inherently necessary to survive, even if I have to kill and eat my favorite animal ever, a fox.

I don't think killing an animal would be easy, and I'm sure killing a human in self-defense could have some mental trauma associated to it, but the best thing to do is to repeat to yourself that it's not your fault that they are dead, they tried to kill you, or you needed to eat an animal to survive and it's a part of nature. I hope that S will never HTF but you never know, and I'm not looking forward to anything for when and if it happens.

As for me, I'll do what I can to disable the person instead of killing them if they threaten my life, but I'll do what is necessary to stay alive, even if I become traumatized by the event.

Thanks for the replies, guys

1 -- I will never join the military, no offense to veterans

2 -- Morality isn't a luxury, it's the basis for what life is worth living. Without it, I wouldn't want to survive

3 -- I believe people can live peacefully with one another, but TPTB and the ignorance of ordinary people have ruined that. I would want to restore that, and without morality, it would be nothing but pointless, greedy individuals fighting one another for a life that isn't worth its salt

4 -- I would probrably die, simply because of these beliefs. Still, it's better than living a damned life

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


if they come to rape pillage or loot thats when you start shooting and protecting your family you should not have to just go out willy nilly killing people and any stranger you come accross but if you incouter rapists and those who would hurt innocents and just genrally try to cause chaos or put them selves in a position of power and inslave or hurt others that is when you kill.

once shtf grouping to gether setting up laws and limited goverment will be the difference between chaos anarchy and peace and good living

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


""First off--how much prepping is enough? Second, what am I prepping for exactly? Third, who am I including in my prepping plans? The list goes on and on... ""

As I've always said, "It's better to have a plan and no need , than a need and no plan". Thats your first 'off', second - any eventuality should be covered by pretty much some prepping, Getting some copies of documents in case of a house fire in a grab bag ready to go, all the way to squirreling some supplies in a hidden area in case of a bug out is required when the po-po come a-callin'.
Third 'off' is anyone in your immediate family, spouse, children and pet ( if required) should be your primary and IMMEDIATE concern, distant relatives a close second, neighbours a distant third, but you can take into confidence like minded preppers so that you can group together incase of some other event.
If you get a decent prep set together it pretty much covers anything from A (ilens) to Z (ombies), my advice is get 2 bug out bags together, a small one you can claim is a daybag ( first aid kit, snacks, water bottle and such ) to the larger bug out ( sleeping bags, tent , etc).

IMO killing only is justified in self-defense. But these days we are under attack covertly from all angles GMO, poisons in our childrens foods etc...

If any of my children goes doen with some kind of disease or illness related to poison from foods I dont know if I will be able to contain my anger.

Killing is a nasty business, but when faced with death what else is there?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


NightAngel,

I really think that your time and money are better spent on an exit strategy. The truth is if you stay in a warzone. YOU WILL DIE, it's only a matter of when.

No matter how skilled you are or how ready you are. There will always be someone who's better or more of a wimpy coward to shoot you in the back or from a mile away. Don't forget that..

Stockpiling and prepping for disaster is futile. You WILL DIE.

I have prepared with an exit strategy that consists of a route to a group of boats with like minded people in order to put 3000 miles between us and a warzone. Air travel a possibility as well.

Or I just may get out as soon as it looks like it's gonna hit the fan.

Leave dying for the country for the idiots who think that they actually AREN'T pawns in a bankers game of chess. You and I, we're smarter then that.