Lets build a town (complete with subways, highway etc) for field exercise..

Originally posted by seethetruth
why would they want to train for a battle in our own city's when there is no threat of any war in our own city's ,,,

For the same reason that the fighter-pilots in a country that does not send their troops abroad (nor have a conflict in their own country) practice flying and not billiards, constantly.

and yes defence should practise what it is supposed to do like it always has

And that would be to practice warfare in a western city.

before going to Bosnia they trained in a Bosnia simulated village before going to Ireland they trained in a Ireland simulated village

Yes, and now that the German military want to practice their core business - defending their own country, they do the same thing, in the right setting.

,so why do they need to build a simulated village of a European city when there is no war in a European city ,,

....I hope I don't have to repeat myself once more on this one. But, just for clarity:
Because their core business is to defend their own country.

Originally posted by Consequence

Originally posted by seethetruth
why would they want to train for a battle in our own city's when there is no threat of any war in our own city's ,,,

For the same reason that the fighter-pilots in a country that does not send their troops abroad (nor have a conflict in their own country) practice flying and not billiards, constantly.

and yes defence should practise what it is supposed to do like it always has

And that would be to practice warfare in a western city.

before going to Bosnia they trained in a Bosnia simulated village before going to Ireland they trained in a Ireland simulated village

Yes, and now that the German military want to practice their core business - defending their own country, they do the same thing, in the right setting.

,so why do they need to build a simulated village of a European city when there is no war in a European city ,,

....I hope I don't have to repeat myself once more on this one. But, just for clarity:
Because their core business is to defend their own country.

since the army was first invented it never needed to build a mock city of its own country,, and pilots fly in there own country because it makes no difference as to were there flying all they need to do is hit a target and not fly in to hills ,,
so after all theses years of the German army, suddenly they feel the need to practise fighting in a mock eu city for defence reasons when there is no threat costing millions to build ,,they could practise in any fibua village that is already built if they was practising defence ,
i hope i dont have to repeat my self there is no need for a mock eu city for defence reasons

Originally posted by seethetruth
i hope i dont have to repeat my self there is no need for a mock eu city for defence reasons

You are apparently a expert on all things involving Geman defence, but somehow you missed the fact that people who know a lot more than you decide that they need one for training purposes.

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by seethetruth
i hope i dont have to repeat my self there is no need for a mock eu city for defence reasons

You are apparently a expert on all things involving Geman defence, but somehow you missed the fact that people who know a lot more than you decide that they need one for training purposes.

it does not take an expert i have been in the army and in Germany with the army there are lots of fibua villages they could use with out spending millions , i don't know if you are watch the news or not but the eu zone is on the brink of collapse so it makes no sense to spend millions when they already have fibu villages to do this in ,,,
There is also the fact that Germany is surrounded by allies if any body did try to invade Germany then Britain France Belgium , the Netherlands Sweden Norway Italy Spain would all be there to kick the invaders ass ,,
so if they are spending millions to build such a village something tells me it is not for defence when they have all the above mentioned country's as defence

Originally posted by seethetruth
since the army was first invented it never needed to build a mock city of its own country

That statement is both inaccurate and contradictory.
It is contradictory because Germany is clearly building one, thus "needing" it.

It is inaccurate because any military would like to have a playground that is as similar to the surrounding they need to defend, that goes without saying.
The only question is if it is worth to build one. Evidently, it seems like people in Germany now think so. Maybe because of the experience of the other mock-towns? That it's actually a good idea?
It is also inaccurate because there are already training sites around the world with mock "buildings", for both police and military to practice close-combat in suburb areas. It would be even better if it was scaled up so that large-scale tactics could also be improved.

,, and pilots fly in there own country because it makes no difference as to were there flying all they need to do is hit a target and not fly in to hills ,,

You didn't read what I said. I said that pilots practice flying and not billiards. I did not mention where they practice. I said that pilots are practicing what they should practice, just like everybody else. Practicing the wrong sport doesn't help much.

so after all theses years of the German army, suddenly they feel the need to practise fighting in a mock eu city for defence reasons when there is no threat costing millions to build ,,they could practise in any fibua village that is already built if they was practising defence ,

What do you know about their budget? Could it be that maybe they thought that they don't need to buy a new fleet of aircraft that can rust away (because as you said, there's no 'threat'), but instead focus and develop the tactics, which is far more important anyway.

i hope i dont have to repeat my self there is no need for a mock eu city for defence reasons

Yes, there is.

reply to post by Consequence


You may have some points, but I think you missed the most crucial one: WHY?
Defense? Maaaaaaybe. Even if that is really impropable, as we are surrounded by allies.

I don't think that you followed some local (German) discussions about the option to use the Bundeswehr in domestic missions - starting by allowing Tornadoes to fly over larger groups of protestors, e.g. against the nuclear disposal zone "Gorleben" with its steady feed of used nuclear fuel rods, so the Tornadoes could videotape them, even in infrared.
I doubt that it would stop there if the military would be allowed to do missions in Germany (apart from their use as defense forces, of course). I think that there are strategies in design for the middle- and farer future concerning uproars, see Greece and Spain with their protests against the audacity.

Sure, the town will take years to be planned and built, but never underestimate the ability of public services for far-sightened planning..

Originally posted by ManFromEurope

You may have some points, but I think you missed the most crucial one: WHY?
Defense? Maaaaaaybe. Even if that is really impropable, as we are surrounded by allies.

As I said before. This is turning into the discussion "why do we need a defense since we are surrounded by allies?"
But if we agree on the "yes, a defense is a good idea", then it's also a good idea that they know what they are doing, and, hopefully, are one of the best in it. Otherwise it's money wasted.

Isn't that a perfectly feasible answer to "Why?".

I don't think that you followed some local (German) discussions about the option to use the Bundeswehr in domestic missions - starting by allowing Tornadoes to fly over larger groups of protestors, e.g. against the nuclear disposal zone "Gorleben" with its steady feed of used nuclear fuel rods, so the Tornadoes could videotape them, even in infrared.
I doubt that it would stop there if the military would be allowed to do missions in Germany (apart from their use as defense forces, of course). I think that there are strategies in design for the middle- and farer future concerning uproars, see Greece and Spain with their protests against the audacity.

Since I'm not German, I have not followed those discussions, no. I'm merely looking at this from a defense point of view, and it makes sense for a defense to actually practice that as well as they possibly can.

Sure, the town will take years to be planned and built, but never underestimate the ability of public services for far-sightened planning..

The answer to "why should we have a defense at all since we are surrounded by allies" is exactly far-sighted planning. That's the point. If these people who say "we don't need a defense" or "we don't need this kind of defense practice" are those who are very sorry in the future if and when they are needed. You cannot magically regain decades of testing and practicing different tactics in a year, when things heat up.

If you have a defense, please take it seriously, otherwise it IS a waste of money, like the opponents to a defense claim.

I´ll try to get some informations out about the paper. There is a long list with questions about the project at the end.

Fight city "Schnöggersburg",
1.5kmx2.5km wide.
520 buildings + infrastructure
1.7km long grass airstrip

There will be simulated fights with laser equipment but there will be pyrotechnic for realistic feeling.
There was also a sign collection against the project with 70,000+ people that signed against it.

Originally posted by StareDad
I´ll try to get some informations out about the paper. There is a long list with questions about the project at the end.

Fight city "Schnöggersburg",
1.5kmx2.5km wide.
520 buildings + infrastructure
1.7km long grass airstrip

There will be simulated fights with laser equipment but there will be pyrotechnic for realistic feeling.
There was also a sign collection against the project with 70,000+ people that signed against it.

wow 70,000 people signed against it that's a lot of people and is that just the people in the local area or does the rest of Germany know about it ,,70,000 would not be so many if it was the whole of Germany ,,,
maybe the German people have not decided they one after all and it somebody else who feels they need one

I think its regional, like going door to door or hang it out in public places like little stores that have contact to the people. That´s the way it´s normally done with such local petitions

Yes build a town so I know where to raid

Originally posted by StareDad
I think its regional, like going door to door or hang it out in public places like little stores that have contact to the people. That´s the way it´s normally done with such local petitions

then that is a lot of german people that dont want the city building ,,,makes you wonder who thought they did ,,