Any Gnostics here?

Originally posted by MegaSpace
Christ in my opinion was here to show us the way that we can also do what he could & more but along the way his teachings were some what corrupted or changed.

I agree, we have to remember, that The Christ wasn't a Christian and The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist...

Gnobody

Originally posted by Gnobody

Originally posted by MegaSpace
Christ in my opinion was here to show us the way that we can also do what he could & more but along the way his teachings were some what corrupted or changed.

I agree, we have to remember, that The Christ wasn't a Christian and The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist...

Gnobody

That’s correct. Apologies i meant to say his examples, they Christ & Buddha both led by examples. Thanks for pointing my error, I was having my morning coffee trying to wake up

reply to post by MegaSpace


I didn't see anything wrong with what you stated and I wasn't trying to correct you, I agree completely that his teachings have been corrupted to suit those who wish to manipulate or control...

Gnobody

Originally posted by reppie
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Thanks. What's the role played by Christ in redeeming us? Is it similar to mainstream christianity in this respect, that only Christ can save us from sin?

edit on 27-8-2012 by reppie because: (no reason given)

"Reality" follows consciousness. Does your consciousness nurture the original consciousness
or poison it?
In order to properly serve your purpose, you need all of your tools intact.
Mistakes and trauma can leave scars that cripple your creative process.

Have you ever had someone important forgive you and give you a second chance?
Have you ever had a problem and someone said "don't worry about it, I'll take care of everything"?
Have you ever had someone make you realize that you matter? that you have value?
The worry and the anxiety evaporates and you suddenly have a new and hopeful outlook.

Redemption could possibly be the most significant thing you offer someone.

Originally posted by reppie
As a gnostic, do you believe we are souls/spirits trapped in flesh/body? If so, why did such a thing happen to begin with? Do you believe in god?

I just need to learn a few things about Gnosticism.

Thanks,

Im not "gnostic" but i've read all their scripture many times...

Love em

it seems to give a more spiritual perspective then their Christian counterparts, though the gospels are the key to all gnostic literature in any case...

And yes i do believe the soul is "traped" so to speak within the flesh... We're here to learn the lessons of life...

www.gnosis.org...

reluctant-messenger.com...

Take a look over those sites...

Another question. Do Gnostics practice meditation or any other spiritual stuff? These things are strictly forbidden in mainstream Christianity.

Originally posted by reppie
Another question. Do Gnostics practice meditation or any other spiritual stuff?

What constitutes "spiritual stuff"?

Gnosis shouldn't be thought as exclusive to gnostic Christianity. Gnosis is experiential knowledge of the 'divine' or 'God' or 'spirit realm' or whathaveyou that would otherwise be inaccessible to a normal state of mind.

I would say most mystical and Eastern religions espouse practice towards gnosis.

Is meditation part of mystical sects of Abrahamic religions? Was it back then, or is it now? I am not sure. I would think meditation, trance, would have been at least in early formation.

These things are strictly forbidden in mainstream Christianity.

Mainstream Christianity meaning the church says don't meditate?

Or do you mean the church interprets specific scripture against the practice?

Originally posted by reppie
Another question. Do Gnostics practice meditation or any other spiritual stuff? These things are strictly forbidden in mainstream Christianity.

In short, yes they do.

Meditation, along with prayer, is the way to Gnosis or knowledge. Through meditation and other practices such as 'dream yoga' (astral travel/conscious dreaming) we can achieve direct knowledge and teachings from the 'masters' and even the 'Gods'.

For instance, most of the time in the Bible (in my opinion/interpretation) when it is spoken of Jesus taking his disciples up to the mountains (high ground) or instructing them to 'watch with him' it is a hidden meaning that they are meditating or reaching a higher consciouness through prayer and mediation.

The 'Pistis Sophia' is a book that is said to contain the secret teachings of Christ, some of these teachings were imparted to the disciples in the 'higher plains' while in a state of meditation or higher consciousness.

To 'watch' or be 'vigilant' in your dreams is the first step to realising there is another reality, dimension or world to explore, to be aware that you are dreaming and to become conscious that you are in the 'dream world' or 'astral' is to be vigilant, the next time you experience a lucid dream, try to realise that you are dreaming and you will experience being 'awake' in the dream world, it will be an experience that will stay with you for a long time.

Once you can achieve this at will (takes time and practice, pray for help) you can call upon 'masters' and visit places of teaching to gain Gnosis.

Gnobody

reply to post by WiseThinker


Oh come on.

Gnosticism means 'knower' - that's what we mean by the appellate "gnostic" - as someone who knows..Knows what?? That indeterminate essence of things, which sheds meaning or strips meaning - whichever you prefer - of the world.

And yes, there are plenty of them here. Many of the followers of Hindu cults, new age spiritual (which abound aplenty here) cults, and all types of people in between, knowingly or not, ascribe to some level of the gnostic idea

Of course, when speaking of gnosticism, it's important to clarify what you mean - and do not mean. I do not mean ancient Gnosticism. Nevertheless, the ideas of Gnosticism appear in essence in Dante, Goethe, Schopenhauer, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Poe, Melville, Dostoyevsky, Alcott, Emerson, Walt Whitman, Emily Dickenson and on and on.

Contemporary culture is also moving in that direction: Gnosticism is a worship of the void - of the nothingness and wholly other; hence, a popular contemporary symbol of this 'other' is the grey alien - alien meaning "other" from beyond the sphere of the world - which serves as a symbol of creation. Gnosticism works from negating the world, and so is what Hegel would call the negative will or thought. When you negate the world, you can move in either two possible directions: nihilism - a very popular fad, or moral relativism, in which everything takes on some basic justification, and so is 'spiritualized'...

We live in a gnostic world, increasingly so. And as we go deeper into the post-modernist epoch - watch our 'leaders' force upon us more and more a relativized perception of things. Soon, our moral ideas will depart, and that will be the beginning of the end of the Jewish ethic implanted in the western condition over the last 2 millenia; ideas like a benevolent God who interacts with man, may still be cherished, and held onto: but this God is indifferent to works - i.e. to statements in the world of action (karma), and thus one is never punished for bad nor rewarded for good: happiness and peace, the grace of God - are given for nothing! You need do nothing but have faith. This is the essential gnostic position of Christianity. Knowledge of the essence - the father of Christianity - catapults you above the world of causative action into the indeterminate sphere of essence, where Gods ever abiding love emanates unfettered.

It is an extremely easy way to live. Dostoyevsky, a hater of the Jews i.e. of their God, which means their theology, would have argued that it is better to be shamefaced and know yourself to be too low to ever meet the perfection of God, than to strive to be the best person you can be, to wrestle with lifes conditions and be proud of the transformation made; in other words, in his mind, one is somehow more of an egotist by trying because it instills in you a sense of accomplishment, thereby settling in you a feeling of superiority vis a vis your fellow man, whereas Christianity - or Gnosticism - allows one to admit his weakness, to accept the fact of our equal distance from God, that neither sinner nor saint is brought closer or farther from God because of his actions in this world; that the billionaire party guy who indulges in sex, drugs, and crime, is in essence, as holy as the family man who raises 3 moral children who contribute to making the outer world - our society - a better place for the less fortunate.

The Jewish God is merciful God - a God who truly sides with the downtrodden and condemns their abusers: he is not impartial to actions - but inclines to one who does good and distances himself from one who does evil.

Different moral conceptions, based on different attitudes towards life. Nevertheless, you got to admit the emotional conflict of the person in a position of power - whether personal as egoistic self confidence, or external as high social status, wealthy, popular - to really adjudicate on which path is truer. The Gnostic path benefits the wealthy and screws the poor. The poor are told 'hold to the essence!' - which, come on, only slightly attenuates the fact that the rich guy indulges in carnal and physical satisfactions, leaving his belly full and his heart satisfied. The fact is - such a person would almost never trade his life for a lesser life. Only in rare cases does that occur - and even if it does occur, it does not justify the truth of this way of living.

Originally posted by reppie
As a gnostic, do you believe we are souls/spirits trapped in flesh/body? If so, why did such a thing happen to begin with? Do you believe in god?

I just need to learn a few things about Gnosticism.

Thanks,

Humans believe that they are the body and the mind and they feel trapped by this.
A gnostic knows that they are not the body or the mind, they are the knowers of whatever is arising. The mind (a thought arising) and the body are appearances. The gnostic (the knower) knows itself as the aware presence. The aware presence is not a thing it is the space that allows all things to appear. The nothing that contains all things.

reply to post by dontreally


I knew i would get a lash for that comment somewhere along the lines, however i am correct and you are wrong.

Gnostic as you say is the Greek word for "Learned", which was adopted as a move, for a christian movement, which did not follow mainstream Christianity (as i am sure you know )
This Gnostic movement was crushed and banned by the church (given names such as, Satanism, Wicca and Forbidden Knowledge).


Sooo, for you to be walking around calling yourself a Gnostic is a fallacy, the movement died a long time ago.
You can call yourself a Truther or a seeker of knowledge, however you cannot (and i don't see why you would, its a Greek word and carries baggage) just take up the name of an extinct sect of Christianity and claim its still alive.

Otherwise we are going to end up with a "Council of Gnostics" with people claiming to know the true meaning of Gnosticism just like we have a "Council of Myan Elders" (who are just local people, who did alot of reading) who claim to know what the Mayan elders thought (Even though all such knowledge was destroyed and anyone who carried such knowledge killed by the Spanish)

Words have power, choose them carefully.

Namaste.

reply to post by WiseThinker

Gnostic

Gnosis means knowledge, and can connote "knower".

As I clarified in my post, I wasn't referring to Gnosticism in it's historical sense, but in the word, which was clearly lost on you.

A "knower" or Gnostic implies someone who believes knowing - which in itself is a very vague idea - to be the basis of his spiritual being. What he "knows" is what supplies meaning to his living. It generally refers to knowing the essence of things: in the Godhead. This is consistent with Hindu metaphysics which sees contemplation - and so knowledge, and not actual fact - as the sine qua non of mans purpose.

Man, after all, is believed to be derived from the Sanskrit term 'manas' - meaning mind. The Hindu sees man as not body and mind - which he in fact is - but simply mind. Since the English language decided to adopt this word to denote man, it stands to argue that the philologists who chose this word meant to convey this same idea, which, after all, is consistent with the Christian idea of 'not in works' but in 'spirit'. Works - Action - Body, are acknowledgements of determinations of being, while thought remains infinite in it's scope and ability. In order to preserve your infinitude - so the idea goes - one must adhere to an inner law, not an outer one; one must deny the outer world - maya - its power to influence man's inner being.

So when I say Gnostics, I refer to individuals who live according to some spiritual principle that negates the significance and relevance of physical existence - particularly morality.

Of course, this means Gnostics can be all sorts of people. In the end, it implies moral relativism. Many, since they find meaning in a negative sense - in the negation of the world - decide on Nihilism. Others, believing love to be the essence of things (or allowing the presence of pathos to influence their religious beliefs) follow Kant's moral imperative, that not outer law, but an inner moral demand, should be the impetus in man's moral behavior. But, the fact remains, there is no inner obligation to act morally, so that idea is a bit quixotic.

reply to post by dontreally


Yes, and all this i understand.

However language is a barrier which must be mastered if we are to progress as a people, and Gnostic already has a historical meaning, therefore using it, you start referring to alot of things that have nothing to do with what you are talking.

Gnosticism was a segment of Christianity that died.
I agree, there is a similar philosophy going around, and alot of this philosophy is indeed Gnostic, however, you still cannot call yourself a Gnostic, its a dead term.

You are high jacking a word, as you yourself say you are not using the historical sense of the word.
Unfortunetly the term was first used in modern times in the 1880's to describe the "taboo, forbidden and pre church Christianity", thus you trying to use it to describe you mind set, does not really work.

Im not trying to derail your argument, i believe in alot of Gnostic ideas, that does not make me a Gnostic, however i am a seeker of truth, i consider myself highly spiritual and i do not follow any religion.

Namaste.

reply to post by WiseThinker


I understand your point. As a gnostic, it probably bothers you since "gnostic" carries pejorative baggage. But since I'm not a gnostic - and I do not sympathize with it's philosophical outlook - I'm not worried about conveying those pejorative undertones.

However language is a barrier which must be mastered if we are to progress as a people,

How is language a barrier towards human progression? If you can't tell, I'm not a proponent of this Absolutism - this abstract approach towards philosophy and meaning which desires to wipe away the significance of physical existence i.e. moral law.

I have no problem with others living any way they desire. I don't want to infringe on another persons right to believe whatever they want - as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

What bothers me is this absolutism - this my way or no way - attitude which says - as you just said: humanity can't progress until we get rid of the language barrier. To me, that implies not language alone, but language as a symbol of something more fundamental: determined states of being. Language is the reduction of whats infinite into finite categories. This hatred for finitude - this desire to live 'infinitely', when your very body testifies against that pretense, strikes me as ridiculous.

In any case, my religious claims are my own, they do not encroach on the personal beliefs of others; whereas you appear to endorse the most radical type of social reform: elimination of institutions which support determinations of being, i.e. moral beliefs predicated on the Judeo-Christian ethic: sex before marriage, which 'sanctifies' the sexual act by providing it universal context i.e. a man and a woman serving as symbols of the union of God and Man, or Masculine and Feminine; Liberal Democracy/Republicanism, which decentralizes governmental authority i.e. spreads the power, as opposed to unifying it in monolithic perpetuity; families as well are expressions of determination and difference within the social order. According to Plato - this is no good. Families contribute to a sense of difference, and so acts as a 'barrier' between peoples. So, I imagine you would like to get rid of that too. Also, nationalism. Peoples are different. We each have our own unique origins. Nations, languages - are all expressions of multiplicity, testaments to the way of the world: determinations, differences between one another.

These are all beautiful things.

Unity should exist within the context of multiplicity. Inner Freedom should be consummated in outer freedom, which is the Ethical order. When we acknowledge what is right and good for others, we exercise full freedom: because we rely on what we know is right, which unhinges us from external influences i.e. natural instinct.

reply to post by dontreally


Nowhere did i claim i was a Gnostic, i said i believe in alot of their ideas, i also dabbled in Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism and Christianity, that does not automatically give me a label of those faiths.

I am looking for truth, and the language barrier idea comes from esoteric theories, if we exist as spiritual beings having a human existence, then human language can by no means be the purest form of information transfer, therefore i see it as imperative that we use as percise words as possible at any given moment, to help us (every one) navigate this physical real.

And with that thought, then Gnosticism should not be used to describe any modern movements, as it is an old school of philosophy ( spiritual philosophy), and with that notion, it carries alot of information, if people start using it for other purposes, it muddles us the language, making it that harder to navigate the physical realm, its simply not the correct term to explain the modern philosophic as it stopped dead and was slowly (and very recently) found again, there has been no progression, no descendants, just people discovering more and more of the churches banned books, which are mostly Gnostic writings.

Now, you starting to attack me, and making accusations and labeling, and claiming unity....

Now i do see how i did bait you abit with claiming an absolute truth, i am only human, and ill admit by force of old habit, then i did phrase it wrong, i made i mistake.

If i could rephrase my first response posts opening:

"I knew i would get a lash for that comment somewhere along the lines, however i do not belive that Gnostic should be used to describe anyone today, and this is why ; "

However you did still make alot of judging and labeling for someone who preaches unity, which is quite contradictory, read over your post again, and tell me you are not taunting me by making radical claims about my supposed beliefs? even calling me a collectivist , your mindset still seems very absolutist to me, ether you agree with you, or you are a radical nut .

Namaste.

reply to post by WiseThinker


The word gnostic does not mean 'learned', it means 'to know' - a knower of truth. The truth cannot be learned. The truth IS but humans rarely know truth because of all they have 'learned'. Humans have been conditioned with learning, with knowledge, they believe things that are not true.
Humans do not see the truth because they believe what the mind tells them.
To know - one must unlearn.
Pure knowing is pure seeing and this state is wordless.

youtu.be...