Russia And China Join Forces And Prepare For War Against The Falling Apart U.S. Can we win this one

reply to post by penninja


I understand your assessment and point of view, and agree with that is how they see it.
Having said that, I don't see any difference between these monsters in our country and how they look at things and the religious nutcases in Iran that will use nukes as well to bring on the Imam

Both sides of the power struggle see themselves as superior, either under a religious ideology or a power and wealth ideology.

Their all insane people.

And i'm with Gort too btw... I like my house 3 years in a fema camp IF i live through there win isn't exactly the way i dreamed my life would go at middle age, I have all sorts of dreams i'd still like to fulfill

But it's not the MOST of US that needs to talk world Unity it's the ALL of them... that's NOT what's going on. I haven't "Liked" the Limited Nuclear War page on facebook today LOL

The topic is who would win, that's the silly, silly thread...

Technically we would, the Topic wasn't how much it would suck if we did.

By all means the debates yours on that account I agree fully and whole heartily, Golf would still be out of the question, Tumors would be as routine as the common cold, and my parakeets and finches in my aviary would be toast for sure and I really like them, truly I do.

But I live for what is and knowing this stuff, well i'm not in a major city, I have a bunker and iodine pills among other things because...they call this a Win and honestly given that i think it's not IF it's WHEN will it happen.

reply to post by jacobe001


I agree they are all insane, but honestly I think the US would be content to see the world in regions I don't think we have a POV of Ruling China or The ME, we want trade, we want globalization, we want rouge states with nothing to loose out of the way. The real other side in this isn't Russia or China as the thread refers too they like the EU like most nations compete, none of illusions these days of conquering but you hit the middle east or Nk you have situations that lead us this way no matter what we do and I don't know they are wrong... America is wealth obsessed sure, A Mc Donalds and Starbucks in every Nation on every corner is Imperialistic as hell... so yeah they are insane too, But those in Power (not the people for the most part) in the Islamic world believe they can control the culture of the world via religion, something proven wrong every time, I do not know... our guys aren't right about the inevitability of this all.

Frankly religion needs to go away period. Cept for Buddhism i'll deal with Buddhism...

What would be nice is if Russia and China were on our side in this.

And you know what? i think the whole thread is MOOT because secretly when push comes to shove i'm pretty sure they are/will be.

reply to post by woogleuk

Nuclear Weapons are on the verge of becoming OBSOLETE and by 2015...they will be. The U.S. has NO PLANS to Modernize it's Nuclear Force as it possesses something Much More Powerful and without the Nasty Radioactivity.

The FEL and MEB are not only Defensive Weapons but are also OFFENSIVE WEAPONS. Discover Magazine stated the current version of a Nuclear Powered U.S. Free Electron Laser can vaporize a hole through 1000 FEET of SOLID STEEL in seconds. Now THINK ABOUT THAT! The Nuclear Powered FEL that is to be installed of the USS. GERALD R. FORD as well as it's Carrier Group Aegis Cruiser which will also have a Nuclear Powered FEL....can not even use standard Satellite Reflective Mirrors for OVER THE HORIZON TARGETING. The Laser is so powerful it would Vaporize a standard Mirror and Special Laser Reflectors for Targeting aboard Satellites had to be developed.

This FEL System is integrated with Networked Super Computers and an FEL BEAM can be split a Numerical Number of times that is astonishing. It has the ability to track and Vaporize something as small as a 50 Cal Round. But what most people don't think about is that an FEL BEAM can be expanded. Entire swaths of Land or Sea areas can be vaporized as the Beam will widen by command of the Reflective Satellite and move over areas as wide as a CITY.

Since the FEL and even more secret MEB will work at the SPEED OF LIGHT and Super Computer Targeting will enable them to engage as many targets as necessary either at the same time or in an order...NO PLANE OR MISSILE OR BULLET OR TORPEDO...the FEL can destroy a Target even at the Bottom of the Deepest point in Earths Ocean...or Destroy a Facility Cut into the bottom of a Solid Granite Mountain as a Nuclear Powered FEL can Vaporize 1000 Feet of SOLID STEEL in seconds...it can also do the same with ROCK as the Beam Temp. is HOTTER THAN THE SURFACE OF THE SUN!

As the FEL will be deployed on every U.S. Carrier as well as every U.S. Aegis Cruiser...and a few Land Based Versions of which two are currently operational...an incoming ICBM will be Targeted as it reaches Low Orbit and the FEL Beam will VAPORIZE the actual MIRVed Warheads. Thus no Nuclear Fuel falling on land or sea and with the case of cruise missiles or planes...the FEL's Target and Acquisitioning System will be able in the case of a Cruise Missile...Vaporize the Warhead and in the case of a Bomber or Attack Aircraft...Satellite Targeting can detect where in the plane the actual Bombs Warheads are by Gama Ray and Neutron Detection in conjunction with a Super Computer anallizing the Air Crafts Radar cross section and even Russian or Chinese Stealth would not be able to hide the Gamma Ray Outline of a Craft allowing precision targeting via Split Beaming since the object is not to SHOOT DOWN the air craft but rather to Vaporize the Nuclear Warheads. Shooting Down a Plane or Cruise Missile as these would not be in Orbit for a time like an ICBM...would create a possible Warhead Break open even though they are designed not to do this...still...the U.S. Warheads are designed not to break open when falling from Great Height or Impact...I do not trust if Russian Warheads will do the same as they claim. Split Infinity

reply to post by penninja


Hmmm, I have a different take on it then you.

Religion was the means to control the masses for thousands of years while the clergy and higher up's enjoyed the good life. The religious laws were said to be from god so that people would do the right thing and pay their taxes etc since they did not have the technology then to ensure everyone was doing their part like today and people were more spread out.

Our system of governance is no different where we are still bound by laws and contribute taxes, and the power rests in the hands of those at the top. We are told we have the power to keep the illusion alive, but when I see these Mega Corporations and Financial Entities controlling our government and election process, I realized it was a sham.

What is happening today is nothing new however, and goes back hundreds of years in this countries history, from the oil barons, steel titans Rockefellers etc.

In "religious countries" you have those with wealth and power controlling the strings (Iran, Saudi Arabia etc) and the same goes in this country where wealtjh and power control this country.

It is just a different method of that same control.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Yeah I am working with he assumption that things will go wrong as they always do, warheads will fall into the ocean, bombs will be assembled on our soil a North Korean with a vial of airborne aids will open it in Seattle... whatever.

That technology is Among the toys we have, we have been working on post Nuclear super weapons since 10 years after WW2, we have them.

I for one feel 100% certain the new Military shuttle has a payload almost certainly an EMP, none the less, we wouldn't be doing what we are doing with the balls we are if we didn't possess a Joker Card or 5

reply to post by jacobe001


Perhaps, but there is a thing called social evolution, what comes to mind when you think of that term for many would be absolute freedom, no war, hardly a control structure at all.

One Day maybe, perhaps right now there are more people than ever who could handle that kind of society, good for the sake of good, genuine humanity and all that goes with it.

Sadly Most can't... so we still all have a structure of control, when it's not in place people, many of them still go nuts for example we all know Meth Kills, people still do Meth because they are simpletons succumbing to simple urges, so a control structure remains.

Is Wealth a very advanced social form of control.... eh NO!!!!!

But it is evolved above religion. It requires stability, it requires commerce, it requires production, it requires life to go on.

Religion is based on superstition, going to Hell, causes that fly in the face of rationality, it assumes an afterlife it creates not just a willingness but a need at times to die and innate belief that something is more important than Life and in a modern world that is doomsday

So yeah our system isn't much better, but it requires life to go on. Where as the previous one advocates it's end and in fact assumes that it will end and would push that to happen sooner gladly.

A step up in social evolution is just that a step, the comparisons in regards to the tragedy of the human condition are far more numerous than the ways this system is superior.

None the less... The modern one requires life to go on, the ancient one does not.

Originally posted by penninja
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Yeah I am working with he assumption that things will go wrong as they always do, warheads will fall into the ocean, bombs will be assembled on our soil a North Korean with a vial of airborne aids will open it in Seattle... whatever.

That technology is Among the toys we have, we have been working on post Nuclear super weapons since 10 years after WW2, we have them.

I for one feel 100% certain the new Military shuttle has a payload almost certainly an EMP, none the less, we wouldn't be doing what we are doing with the balls we are if we didn't possess a Joker Card or 5

We have Non-Nuclear EMP's RIGHT NOW! They are very powerful and previously the only way to get an EMP of this magnitude was use of a Nuclear Weapon burst high over target for maximum effect. The current Non-Nuclear EMP's can be air dropped or delivered by Missile but we have smaller ones that two can be fitted inside the internal Bomb Bay of a F/A-22 Raptor. These would be used to render Command and Control inert as the Raptors are almost impossible to detect by either Radar as well as IR Detection.

If the Iranian issue goes bad...I have wondered if the U.S. Military would use these Secret EMP's to render the Iranian Military USELESS and thus save a lot of young Conscripted KIDS LIVES. Unlike the U.S. Military which is an all Volunteer Force...the Majority of Iran's Fighting Force is a bunch of KIDS who didn't want to be in the Military in the First Place! But these EMP's are very Secret and I don't know if the U.S. would tip it's hand.
Split Infinity

A better question is - who would be invaded IF the U.S was not in the picture?

Say if the U.S did not exist at all and even if Russia and China (or insert another country that suits your fancy) join forces for war against U.S what makes you think they would stop there? All of Europe and Asia would be at risk in this scenario...not that i think it would happen, it is possible though.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by penninja
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

But these EMP's are very Secret and I don't know if the U.S. would tip it's hand.
Split Infinity

so gd secret we can hear about it on ATS.....
hhhmmmm.....

Originally posted by Malcher
A better question is - who would be invaded IF the U.S was not in the picture?

Say if the U.S did not exist at all and even if Russia and China (or insert another country that suits your fancy) join forces for war against U.S what makes you think they would stop there? All of Europe and Asia would be at risk in this scenario...not that i think it would happen, it is possible though.

This was a statement by a analyst who works for Jane's...If we are to entertain what if scenarios...say...What If...Russia, China and Iran were to go to WAR against the United States...and although this would never happen...WHAT IF....the United States did not have the help of it's allies thus no help from NATO or any other alliance or country...and it was the U.S. vs Russia, China and Iran.

There would be NO CONTEST. In either scenario being either Nuclear or Non-Nuclear...the United States on it's own would DEVASTATE these Countries. The Main Reason being the U.S. abilities from a Naval aspect as well as various Super High Tech. Advancements by the U.S. and the TOTAL INABILITY of any of the three countries at war with the United States to be able to Force Project as the U.S. Navy would easily SINK all three countries Navies and enjoy the ability to strike each of the three countries at will. Split Infinity

reply to post by MikhailBakunin

The U.S., Russia, China and various European Countries all have been working on Non-Nuclear EMP's for some time and all have Large Working Non-Nuclear EMP's....the difference is in the U.S. Military's ability to make them smaller yet just as powerful or even greater in ability.

THAT...is the part that is Secret...not their existence but the fact that one of these counties...the U.S. has EMP's small and powerful enough to be Air Dropped or placed atop a Missile. The other countries EMP's are the size of a Tanker Truck. Split Infinity

Nobody will win if there is an all out nuclear war. I don't care what defenses anyone has, these things go up and have to come crashing down or be blown up somewhere. The radiation exposure to people won't be good. In the case of a no possible win, bombs may be set to detonate on destruction or deactivation. Unless you have a bunker with filtered air and supplies to last a year, you are toast. Lets just hope that it never comes to that, we are getting along with them.

China has already won. They own us through debt. They don't need to militarily conquered us. US military is spread thin and we already have 500000 foreign troops in the US through NATO. If they want to defeat us they can easily do that.

reply to post by rickymouse

This is the reason why the U.S. agreed with Russia to draw down both of their ICBM's...as well as reduce the number of MIRV's on each Missile.

A Nuclear Powered FEL can directly target the Warhead and VAPORIZE IT! This would avoid your scenario.
Split Infinity

reply to post by amfirst1


I agree somewhat but i don't think it will be easy,the USA is still a force to be reckoned with,the shadow war between NATO , China and Russia are over energy and the economy..

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I had figured that we did but wasn't sure, doesn't seem like out of the reach at all but I had not considered that we could have them equipped on a Raptor.

Originally posted by amfirst1
China has already won. They own us through debt. They don't need to militarily conquered us. US military is spread thin and we already have 500000 foreign troops in the US through NATO. If they want to defeat us they can easily do that.

Your statement has no logic. The U.S. owes China Money...say China was to attempt an Invasion of Taiwan. The U.S. Navy would have a field day as we would position several Carrier Groups outside of China's Air Force Attack Aircraft range. U.S. Attack Subs would sink any and all Chinese Troop Carriers. U.S. Air Force would obliterate all Chinese Air Bases capable and close enough to fly missions. U.S. Navy Carrier Groups would stop all incoming OIL Shipments to China. All Chinese Cargo Ships would be forced to return to Chinese Ports.....and the BIGGEST BY FAR KICK IN CHINA'S PANTS....U.S. would stop all payments upon Chinese Loans and declare them SPOILS OF WAR.

China's economy would collapse in a WEEK! China has no capability to FORCE PAYMENT of their loans to the U.S. China has no Force Projection ability to either protect their Cargo Ships or confront U.S. Carrier Groups. It is a FACT that China...even with Millions of Soldiers...can do nothing if they cannot get these Soldiers from Point A to Point B.

Plus the fact than there is NOTHING that the U.S. imports from China that has any real necessity. Also...China could threaten the use of Nuclear Missiles but the U.S. has the capacity to shoot them down. Loaning the U.S. such a large sum of money was a miscalculation by the Communist Party. If you cannot force payment...you have NOTHING. China would keep attempting to send out Troop Carriers and we would keep sinking them.
Split Infinity

reply to post by amfirst1


Like I said earlier the nay saying of the reality here is because many Americans aren't the sort of people who ever wanted to be part of an empire for quality of life reasons. Many British have parents or grandparents who already walked this road and know it stinks and want no part of it either.

So the nay saying is hope, hope that this goes away and they can live like normal people.

Same people who like Ron Pauls Ideas, same people who envy much of Northern Europe or Canada or even Japan where life isn't hard the budget goes to people not defense and life is GOOD

I am one of those people too

But I can't delude myself as to the reality and the reality is our Military can fight the entire globe and win potentially and most likely none of this will be going away anytime soon.

Originally posted by all2human
reply to post by amfirst1

 

I agree somewhat but i don't think it will be easy,the USA is still a force to be reckoned with,the shadow war between NATO , China and Russia are over energy and the economy..

edit on 29-8-2012 by all2human because: (no reason given)

Eh, I think neghind the scenes the US and China and Russia and France and Germany now the EU, the five members of the permanent UN security council have divided the globe fairly evenly, this fight will never happen.