Questions raised after SEAL's identity revealed

Originally posted by sputniksteve

Originally posted by Annee
FOX NEWS - - will take your money.

If anyone thinks FOX NEWS is about anything by making money - - they're delusional.

I hope to God you don't believe they are the only ones like that, that would be a huge injustice.

Really?

FOX NEWS is a show. It is not news.

I actually used to watch FOX years ago.

reply to post by Annee


My point is you seem to only blame Fox for this behavior, and my point is that you can change Fox to CNN/HLN/MSNBC/etc and make the same statements. If you don't see this then who ever is your "favorite" is obviously doing a great job.

reply to post by nunya13


I u2u'ed the OP with the reasoning behind my post. He accepted at least some responsibility regarding the confusion concerning the way he posted the topic. I can at least respect him for that. In my book, when you open the door on something that has a relationship to the topic, it is fair game.

I already gave my opinion regarding the fact that they published his info. I also gave my opinion regarding MSM, which includes FOX.

Thanks for your response. Bash on buddy. Feel free to continue beating a dead horse.

I'm a bit surprised about the reaction many people are giving in this thread. Usually people are calling soldiers 'murderers' and 'baby killers' but people seem to be contradicting the norm and saying the complete opposite - its a bit scary how people turn. I have full respect for soldiers and believe they are amazing people who do an amazing job and to have their identity(ies) released, especially when working for such a secretive military unit beggars belief. With the Internet holding so much information about each and everyone of us it will only take a while before some conspiracy theorist finds out where he lives.

reply to post by nunya13


Yes, actually it does. The rest of the media has known his name too and knows it now. Notice how none of them are giving his name, even now that FOX has publicly named him AND showed a photograph. That simple, basic, undeniable fact proves your point to be silly and obviously wrong. The raw fact is that the other networks have standards, FOX has none.

Ok, let's go in a new direction. I can't stand fox news and their cast of liars....but has anyone actually read his book yet? It could be the official story, information that has already been released. Who knows whats it that book. Being in the Air Force for six years, I know a little about OPSEC. If he didn't turn the rough draft or final copy over to be vetted, I doubt there's anything in the book that's still classified. Why would you write a book, tell secrets to all, and risked getting the firing squad for treason?

reply to post by boomer135

Sounds like a mess... I went hunting for more info and it appears those in the Government are saying this definitely did not get reviewed or vetted. They had an attorney look at it?

On Wednesday, the publisher said the book had been vetted "for tactical, technical, and procedural information as well as information that could be considered classified by compilation" by a former "special operations attorney."

The military doesn't sound impressed with that.

"We will pursue every option available to hold members accountable, including criminal prosecution where appropriate," Admiral Bill McRaven wrote in an open, unclassified letter emailed to the active-duty special operations community, and obtained by Reuters on Friday.

"As current or former members of our special operations community, authors have a moral obligation, and a legal duty, to submit their works for pre-publication security review," the admiral wrote.

Source

The same story also confirms Fox News is the leaker. At least the first one. Reuters had the name too and has confirmed it, as it reports, but didn't publish it. The Al Qaeda reaction is scary...and this guy better have good personal security on him and his family. Wow.... They may as well have sent Al Qaeda a letter with his home address and best times to find him there.

I get the impression this is far from over on tracking down just who first leaked what and who uttered the name publicly first. Although now, I guess even the Navy is confirming it.

A Naval Special Warfare spokesperson says NSW was not aware of the book and was not provided an opportunity to vet it prior to publication.

The spokesperson confirmed the author's real name is Matthew Bissonnette. He is a former SEAL who completed BUD/S training in 1999 and is now a civilian.

Source

Might as well I guess.. the whole world has it with his picture now.

So he's going to be on 60 minutes two days prior to the book's release.

Bissonnette hasn’t piped up about the controversy, but he’ll soon have the chance to do just that: The author is slated for an appearance on CBS‘ “60 Minutes” on Sept. 9th.

Source

I wonder if he was slated to be a dark shadowy figure with the old garbled voice.

No need for that now.

also...

Dutton, vaguely announced this week that Bissonnette would be donating “a majority” of his book’s profits to “unnamed” military-related charities.

Should be interesting to watch this one play out.

It is absolutely dumb to bemoan how leaks kill soldiers, then turn around and endanger the life of a SEAL. Bad form Fox News, bad form.

Actually I think the Government should have leaked this then sat waiting for them to try and attack. What better way to snag terrorist out of the U.S.
Sure beats the failed attempt at the Airports and the major open door boarders they don`t care about..

If anything happens Fox should be held accountable as the crime committed is.

reply to post by Connman

I wonder if you'd feel the same way if one of the Seal 6 guys that went on that raid lived in your neighborhood...or was even your neighbor. This author is out of the teams now, and so others may be as well. Using our own guys as bait isn't quite so agreeable if it might be where you live, I'd imagine.

I applaud FOX for revealing his name.

I think all Seals and other such so called elite unit members names should be public knowledge. These guys are little more than government trained mercs who will follow any order without thinking. They are thugs with a license to kill who do the bidding of a corrupt government with an anti American agenda. They should be in the spotlight to help keep them honest citizens.

It's only fair.

This is why the President and other corrupt stooges get the idea that they are above the law. This is why Obama has gotten away with Murder.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by r2d246

 

Ummm Gadaffi was repeatedly raped in a filthy street and then executed by the same rebels we supported there and now support in Syria. The whole world had and still has access to the footage of Saddam Hussein being executed by hanging. Iraq would have exploded if any funny business had been done around that man and his ultimate fate...which Iraq's administered themselves in the end.

I agree that Usama is a big question mark...because Obama decided we didn't rate anything like proof. His word and his word ALONE is supposed to be enough. Umm.. Yeah.. right... I wouldn't take a previous President's word that the sky was blue after Iraq...I won't take Obama's word for anything either.... Although I personally think Usama died screaming like a school girl while under the tender mercies of the CIA's best turkey doctors in some very secluded black site. I have a hunch which one too...but some day that will all come out as historical notes to fill the blanks.

I just can't believe folks would question the fate of Gadaffi or Saddam. No questions there..and the world DID get their proof. In the case of Gadaffi....the kind of proof I wish to God I could UN-see and forget ever happened.

They both had many body doubles. Naaa country leaders get a "get out of jail free card". They get to retire on special secret prison islands that are very posh resorts.

Now you're probably thinking, "that's crazy" and where do you come up with that.

All I have to say is one thing...Go to youtube and watch "Double Team" an old movie staring Van Damm and you'll understand.

Lastly never believe everything you see on tv or hear or read from main stream media. It's all just cover stories.

reply to post by bluemirage5

don't be so damn gulliable people

"The Pentagon sees to it that I know more than you."

I'll put it to you that way.

However, I'll play the game as a civilian, as well.

You tell me not to be gullible, but want me to accept at face value that Osama died in 2001.

Now, I'm sure you'll come back with a couple links and some "come on, you have to do some of your own research, your own digging, and connecting the dots" - but it's really a cop-out.

The fact of the matter is that you have more personal, intimate experience with the surface of the moon than you have with Afghanistan cultures, sub-cultures, and AQ leadership structure/personnel.

Go find a girlfriend/boyfriend or adopt a cat/dog - let them make you feel special.

reply to post by Cuervo

You still think this is about his book. It's not. This is about FOX news revealing a soldier's name and location. Forget his book and focus on that. This thread is about FOX, not his book.

This is a valid point. It's easy to let this kind of fall through the cracks of the discussion.

Honestly, this is a concerning development on the part of Fox. - However, while these boards like to rag on Fox... I'm not so certain the trend is unique to them. I will be honest and say that I do not have any examples on hand, and am not currently looking for any - but I would imagine that you would find similar, lower-profile instances in other networks.

It is irresponsible journalism either way.

I'm sure the three letter alphabet soup agencies would not appreciate the comparison - but I look at journalism the same way I look at a spy network. You have your sources that feed you information - sometimes as a one-off, other times on a regular basis. It is your duty and responsibility to protect their identity (particularly in high profile, high-risk/impact reports) and, if possible, to even be able to offer them some level of protection using media coverage if they are compromised - and/or to provide legal support.

The trend I see is that some journalists seem to think they are some kind of comic book hero, or something. "I'm going to expose people who do bad things!" - and I would imagine the Fox journalist responsible for this was looking to unearth who it was who had attempted to publish a book potentially containing OPSEC information regarding Naval Special Warfare Operations.

The problem with things like this is that it opens up a can of worms beyond the perspective of the journalist.

Units that mobilize to operate in Guantanamo Bay for detainee ops do not wear name-tapes on their uniforms. Why? Because the people imprisoned there -have- hunted down the families of people who work at those facilities, using their contacts on the outside and position within various organizations. No need to make it easier for them.

When you positively identify one individual as being part of an operation - you can, with the right intelligence assets, unravel the identities of a large number of people involved in any given operation - even subsequent operations.

There's a few dozen people, right now, experiencing some pucker-factor and probably considering a move with a covert name change for their entire family.

Not fun.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I`m not for it but would not surprise me to see the Government behind it. Even if the guy was still active military I would not be for it unless he volunteered.

reply to post by r2d246

Well, I certainly don't believe everything I see and I don't watch much TV. Haven't for a couple years now... I don't outright disbelieve everything either, though and I think that's an important distinction. In my personal judgement of events and outcomes, I try and keep an open mind and just take the reports one by one with whatever background or cross checking I can do, when it's worth the effort to confirm something.

Some may believe Saddam never died and Gadaffi was really best friends to Obama and the E.U. while destroying the society of his nation was all a show.

Personally, I believe what we saw in those two cases is pretty much what happened to them. The good..the BAD...and well, it doesn't get uglier than Gadaffi's death. I didn't like him...and I recall the Tripoli bombing raid that ALMOST did the world a favor under Reagan. Almost got 'em!

That was then though, and a LONG time ago in terms of his settling down and not sending his intelligence officers around the world to kill and raise hell. He didn't deserve that fate. No one does...and so I'd actually feel a bit dirty here even agreeing with the idea it never actually happened. In my view, it did. Remembering that outcome is the best way to insure we raise a voice and argue against the same being done again.

Not that it's making a damn bit of difference in Syria. Part II is well underway.

@connman

OKAY... My bad then... I had thought you were saying the Government leaking the names for the purpose of using them all as bait was a good thing, whether they liked it or not. lol..... That makes all the difference. If they were willing? Hey, now that would be a decent idea......as long as it wasn't at their homes among the public. Maybe a military base in Montana or North Dakota.

reply to post by Aim64C


Actually, I'm highly knowledgeable on the culture within that region...more so than your military who are over there.

You guys are in to your 11th year in Afghanistan and you learned NOTHING about these people. That's why you lost the war before you even got over there. Russia told you so. Now I'm saying it and so are squillions of others.

Now going back to that book....can you REALLY positively identify this Seal? It's just a name any one can pull out. No Seal is involved in writing that book. But you go a head and believe whatever is fed to you.

Originally posted by r2d246

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by r2d246

 

Ummm Gadaffi was repeatedly raped in a filthy street and then executed by the same rebels we supported there and now support in Syria. The whole world had and still has access to the footage of Saddam Hussein being executed by hanging. Iraq would have exploded if any funny business had been done around that man and his ultimate fate...which Iraq's administered themselves in the end.

I agree that Usama is a big question mark...because Obama decided we didn't rate anything like proof. His word and his word ALONE is supposed to be enough. Umm.. Yeah.. right... I wouldn't take a previous President's word that the sky was blue after Iraq...I won't take Obama's word for anything either.... Although I personally think Usama died screaming like a school girl while under the tender mercies of the CIA's best turkey doctors in some very secluded black site. I have a hunch which one too...but some day that will all come out as historical notes to fill the blanks.

I just can't believe folks would question the fate of Gadaffi or Saddam. No questions there..and the world DID get their proof. In the case of Gadaffi....the kind of proof I wish to God I could UN-see and forget ever happened.

They both had many body doubles. Naaa country leaders get a "get out of jail free card". They get to retire on special secret prison islands that are very posh resorts.

Now you're probably thinking, "that's crazy" and where do you come up with that.

All I have to say is one thing...Go to youtube and watch "Double Team" an old movie staring Van Damm and you'll understand.

Lastly never believe everything you see on tv or hear or read from main stream media. It's all just cover stories.

edit on 26-8-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-8-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)

You say watch an old Vann Dam movie to show your reasoning and then turn around and say don’t believe what you see in the news.

Can you even see how absurd that is? That should be in the definition of crazy.

reply to post by bluemirage5

Actually, I'm highly knowledgeable on the culture within that region...more so than your military who are over there.

Sure you are.

You've got the internet.

You guys are in to your 11th year in Afghanistan and you learned NOTHING about these people.

I didn't sit through hours and weeks of culture briefs to be told by the online mentality equivalent of a teenager what the DoD does and does not know about said culture.

The gigabytes of powerpoint slides of questionable efficacy stand as a testament to your ignorance.

Next slide.

That's why you lost the war before you even got over there. Russia told you so. Now I'm saying it and so are squillions of others.

The only reason countries like the UAE have progressed beyond countries like Afghanistan is because of the revenue brought in by resources like oil. The trees here? On life support funded by revenue. The buildings? These guys are the masters of air conditioning for a damned good reason, and nothing they have would exist without it.

Go to Afghanistan - you're looking at rocks. Sure - there may be some valuable minerals laying around here and there - but for the average person looking to support a living - it's a barren wasteland.

Our society is based around agriculture. Always will be to a large extent.

Doesn't work here very well.

Which is why there is a critical gap in this region's ability to sustain higher standards of living. The ambient environmental standard of living is so hostile that it is never cost effective to bring it up to par with other areas of the planet with air consistently of a temperature below that of your core body.

Which is why this part of the planet will almost always suck (unless the environment changes) and the people here will be perpetually pissed and remain combative toward each other.

Between the sociological differences and the environmental challenges - developing Afghanistan into a presentable second world nation will take another twenty to fifty years depending on various factors.

It's not really something you win or lose. It's a project you decide to continue or abandon. However, once you abandon - it's difficult to start over, and you won't pick up in the same place.

Now going back to that book....can you REALLY positively identify this Seal? It's just a name any one can pull out. No Seal is involved in writing that book. But you go a head and believe whatever is fed to you.

The best defense against having intelligence and operatives compromised is ignorance on the part of your adversary and a lack of direction for them to focus their efforts.

You would be surprised what people can find out with simple little facts. Few people have my last name. I'm the only person in this state with my first name and last name. To my knowledge, I'm also the only one in this nation - potentially even the world - with my first and last name combination. Takes a lot of guesswork out of my personal identity.

Or let's try another angle. I was born within minutes of a person who attended the same church as I did as a kid. Not much to go on - and it's not like there is a readily searchable database of church bulletins - but if you could, you could take my first name "Shane" - and search for churches that have that name paired with another for the same birthday (easier if you know that person's first name, too). Narrow your results to churches in Missouri - and I'd bet that you would only have one church - but you may have a few - I have no accurate statistics to crunch the probability.

If you are well connected or have access to a well connected network (as any organized criminal or government agency would have - I'm sure ATS appreciates the grouping of those two) - you easily have only a few birth records you need to covertly pull.

I could go on and list ways to track people socially - internet based tracking versus physical tracking in a domestic environment; ways of using both to bridge gaps, etc.

I have no secrets like the SWO community has - but I have run across things I would rather not know. Information that could lead to the identification of individuals in incidents that receive media attention - even if I don't personally know who that individual is - I know enough about some scenarios that I could, even without intending to, give an interested party enough of a lead to allow them to identify and mark that person as a target.

By the way ... if no SEAL is involved in writing... then how does it detail the events as observed and experienced by special warfare operators? ... Obviously, they had to be involved at some point with the author (presuming the author isn't one of them, of course).

reply to post by r2d246

Lastly never believe everything you see on tv or hear or read from main stream media. It's all just cover stories.

If the military had its way - there wouldn't be a story to attempt to cover.

Many events are covered only with an amount of accuracy that can be attained by outside civilians. Military culture is steeped in acronyms and euphemisms that convey an understood meaning to us - but almost none to the outside world (The Discovery channel, on one of their documentaries, stated that there was a bowling alley on a Nimitz class carrier - a misunderstanding of the aboard crew, no doubt, who heard ship's company talking about the 'bowling alley' and didn't understand it was in reference to a particular passage way in the ship.... of course - that also means the journalists were aboard for weeks taking film and still believed there were parts of the ship large enough to hide a bowling alley they had not yet seen). It's also a culture that doesn't like to have many of its issues broadcast to the world. If we're having problems with a system - we don't want people to know about it. We may as well say: "hey, exploit this!"

More often, what happens is that there is a limited perspective of the story, and the military often has little reason to correct errors on behalf of journalists. We'd rather not tell the world how to go about making notable incidents repeat themselves or otherwise work to the advantage of enemies.

If anything is a PR front, though, it's movies. If you're a foreigner watching our movies involving our military - we're practically invincible bad asses from hell itself. We're brutally efficient in our command, excellently supplied, and have wondrous gadgets and gizmos that make us each a mini-batman.

Going into bootcamp with that mentality will leave you feeling blatantly lied to - but the more aggressors who lose their war with us within its very conception - the better.