The Contradictions of the Two Party System:

Please keep an open mind as I am sure this thread is bound to piss off just about everybody! This is not a thread seeking a third party, this is a thread wondering how each party believes in their platform and why?

I am a moderate republican and agree with democrats and republicans on certain issues. However, as I look more and more closely at the political world and begin to study it and understand it better, there are certain things that are upside down that I would like to address.

Why do democrats want the government to take care of them? Of course, this is a typical GOP talking point, but its not far from the truth. The rich dems do not want to get taxed to death, but they are willing to help the poor people funding many different government programs that may or may not work. My question is this. Wouldn't that suit more with the religiously minded people? In reality, most democrats hype up the fact that they are open minded culturally aware individuals who allow people to believe whatever they want. In Christianity, or a fundamentalist in any other religion will want the people to be oppressed and controlled by whatever ground rules the religion/God states and the traditions held by the followers of those rules for years. I would think the conservative fundamentalist Christians would want to have more government not less. Again, this is strictly speaking from a philosophical viewpoint. Whereas its the democrats who always hype about how open minded they are they should be the ones rooting for a more freer and open government, yes?


Why do republicans like corporations so much? Now, this of course is a democratic talking point but its not far from the truth. Republicans love the free market and almost worship it. But, the republicans do not like change, they do not like innovation. They like the status quo. They think being progressive is like being gay...a sin! They like things the way they are. If some members of my party got their way we would still be living in 17th century England! It's true. Yet, Republicans continue to fuel change and fuel innovation by loosening up regulations of the
world's top corporations allowing them to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they continue to make money by making their products. Who invents? Corporations. Who changes the world? Corporations leading with technological innovations that they buy from the progressives who think them up!

Shouldn't democrats have a religion? Is the democratic religion secularism? Or even atheism? That doesn't make much sense. For a time, many democrats were socially conservative. Maybe even moreso, than the republicans. For instance, the democrats did not want to end slavery. Socially Conservative Democrats like Truman had a strong relationship with Israel back in the day. I think democrats have been searching very far and very long for a religion to endorse and cannot seem to agree with one. Some like secularism, some like islam, some even say global warming can be a religion as well as being gay. But that's hardly the majority of their party. In fact, most muslims would be socially aligned with the republicans!!!! Especially the fundamentalist terrorist groups!

Now, the national religion for the republicans is almost with certainty Christianity. Many republicans back in the 80s and 90s called America a Christian Nation! Some still do today. However, Christianity is not the nations religion, in fact, many of the founding fathers were Freemasons and they have an unkind relationship with the church. Some scholars go so far as to say that the founding fathers on multiple occasions created America so that it can be against the Church of England, which the King is ultimately the head of!

Now, I understand the republicans love for guns for instance, but if OWS really wanted to accomplish anything and start a real revolution, they would have gotten guns!!!!!! Most of those hippies probably didn't even know how to use a gun, much less understand state laws on how to obtain one. No, I am not calling for a revolution or anything of the sort. I am just pointing out the insane thinking that goes on inside both political parties written from a truly unbias perspective. Again, the tea party protests were and continue to be mostly peaceful protests with little to no incidents. Is it because all the people there are "carrying?" Hardly!

Most of the rest I can see how the ideology fits in with the two party system For instance, immigration. Democrats want less regulation and Republicans want more, but that in itself is a contradiction, because its usually the reverse for everything else on each side. Republicans want more regulation for marijuana and democrats want it legalized etc...

The thing I guess to take from this is that politics is not black and white or red and blue. People can believe what they believe, but this is what the majority of the parties believe and sometimes what they believe do not match with their other ways of thinking!

Does this make sense to anybody or did I just confuse everyone even further. I admit, I got lost in my own post...

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I can answer your question with 3 words my friend!

Divide
Manipulate
Control

Think about it! We are all stuck on this planet and who makes us hate each other for different reasons????
Those in power!

You make some good points, and bring to light a number of ideas I haven't thought about.

Unfortunately with a two party system it doesn't even matter what they believe in or support specifically, so long as they are opposed to one another. If one party suddenly starts to support an idea that the other party supports, this makes the competition more even! When you want to win, you don't want the competition to be close. You will look to distance yourself somehow, either by moving back from the idea, or by moving more forward with it then the other party.

Hence reversal of ideals is commonplace. Contradiction is commonplace. There are two parties, you have to differentiate somehow.

Ultimately this gets us nowhere. Hundreds of millions of people with hundreds of millions of ideas are pigeon-holed into supporting one of two teams. One side wins, spends the first presidential term undoing the progress of the other, the second presidential term trying to enact change. Other side wins, cycle repeats.

I'm not surprised that you're noticing these contradictions. When the only way to "win" is to be as opposed as possible to your only other "real" competition, all it takes is some swaying on one side to promote swaying on the other side.

Maybe "We" have exactly what "we" want. We certainly have what we deserve.

In my opinion, most people are just that...people. They are products of their environment and are seldom able to form an opinion outside of their constructed framework. The average, everyday Dem or Rep aren't that different from each other in the way they live or think. They just differ when it comes to where they come from.

I'd say most people are Democrat or Republican because of their parents or another social stimuli.

What both parties have, and use to their advantage, is propaganda! The use of rhetoric and key phrases can easily stalemate constructive conversation and turn it into a blame-game, my party is better than yours type of thing.

Unfortunately, it looks as though you have fallen for that tactic.

Even though you understand some of the things Dems and Reps say are just talking points, you try to make the case on why they should be believed. And you engage in the same rhetoric that divides us into separate camps.

I always find that the most important contradiction always comes from within. Realize that and it's much easier to see what is going on around you.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


What propaganda have I used in this thread? I have simply stated what the majority of the two party system believe and wondered why they don't believe the opposite.

reply to post by jjf3rd77

Why do democrats want the government to take care of them? Of course, this is a typical GOP talking point, but its not far from the truth

Propaganda

Why do republicans like corporations so much? Now, this of course is a democratic talking point but its not far from the truth.

Propaganda

Republicans love the free market

Propaganda

Republicans continue to fuel change and fuel innovation by loosening up regulations of the world's top corporations

Propaganda........and completely false

Shouldn't democrats have a religion? Is the democratic religion secularism? Or even atheism?

Propaganda.....Dems are just as religious as any other group. Many of them choose to keep religion to themselves.


I could go on, but you get the point? It's the rhetoric and rash over-generalization that keeps the parties believing that they are completely different. When they're not.

People have more in common than not....their politics just depends on which line of crap they are willing to believe.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


you just believe that that is propaganda whereas most outspoken republicans/democrats believe the things I have said.

reply to post by jjf3rd77

whereas most outspoken republicans/democrats believe the things I have said.

You're right...and this is the root cause of 'the contradictions of the two party system".

They believe it.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


so whats your point? You want to brainwash people to think something else? I'm not trying to change their minds I'm just wondering why they don't believe the opposite.

There's a difference.

I'm surprised this didn't get more responses so I'm bumping it.

Looks like everyone got pissed off in silence...

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I agree with in principle alot of what you have posted here. This is one of the main reasons I would love to see publicly funded elections, removing the private money. I personally believe it would allow for some of the smaller parties to become larger and have an actual voice opposed to two big tent parties, that use a few hot button issues to turn the election their way.

The only characteristic of partisan ideologies that is consistent among them is that of social control. Differences in particulars--those aspects of society each party focuses on and "develops policy" for--are largely irrelevant given that, as the pendulum swings back and forth, each interest will eventually accomplish their main objectives. The end result is that both our personal liberties and our relationship to natural resources are defined, manipulated, and controlled completely in due time.

But people like to have a "team" to root for, so they get wrapped up in partisan identities and tend to overlook (at best) or consciously ignore glaring contradictions in their own self-espoused philosophies to be able to justify, to themselves, their commitment to their "cause" or whatever you'd like to call it.

The whole thing is a bit juvenile if you ask me, arguing about which path to take when they all lead to the same place (which isn't a good one anyway), just to "be right". Humanity needs to do some serious growing up.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Well there is only a 2 party system it's like this....

Party 1) This has multiple wings such as Demo, Repub, Ron Paul, all working together to trick the mass majority of the states into thinking there's free and fair elections and that they're all good choices. They own and run the voting machines and THEY DECIDE WHO WINS not you!

Party 2) Rosanne Barr Party - One of the few real parties out there. (serious!)

Even though the OP had good intentions, I believe a lot of the hand fed misinformation leaks into the post itself, and takes a lot of credibility..

for instance, saying should democrats have a religions makes me think of two responses, 1 is, why should they need a religion? There is separation of church and state. 2, generalizing dems as not religious is untrue and dangerous, and fuels part of the hatred towards them from the religious right. Being religious and democratic are not mutually exclusive.

I don't want the government to take care of me, I want to be able to take care of myself.

However, with that being said, there are many people out there that have no means of support. Why should they be left out in the cold and starve to death?

Truly, no one should be homeless and starving.