Vaccine Questions/Concerns

reply to post by ManFromEurope


I suggest you go and visit a site like this one www.whale.to...
In there you will find graphs and charts that show how satistics can be manipulated to show a particular result.

this isn't he only site but i managed to find it in about 30 seconds using a search engine

As said before, there are lies, damned lies and statistics

Originally posted by FFS4000
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

I suggest you go and visit a site like this one www.whale.to...
In there you will find graphs and charts that show how satistics can be manipulated to show a particular result.

this isn't he only site but i managed to find it in about 30 seconds using a search engine

As said before, there are lies, damned lies and statistics

What is your point? You try to show that any statistical data can be "interpreted", as I would call it in a friendly way.
So, you don't like numbers. What would you take as evidence? You know, most data in medicine is based upon the counting of illnesses vs. cures. Will more patients survive if this medicine is used or that one? How much longer will a cancer-patient survive within reasonable numbers of T-cells if we do a spinal tap and use that data or is it proven by numbers that the pain from the spinal tap can be avoided as it won't benefit the patient?

There is a LOT of documentation and statistics in medical science. I am sure you wouldn't like it but believe me, many and many and many lives depended and will depend on that.

Okay. You don't want my numbers or that of any other doctor, but only from that (I have to say "obscure", because it looks like it was done from a creepy guy with little knowledge of lets say 2001+ AD webdesign and way too much time to collect data by striping it from its narrations and context) whale-website.

Do you really think that is enough to even change a single parents mind in the world?

I stand to my credo: you are an opportunist. Your kids won't get measles by being protected from the herd. Other kids did that job for them. The herd-effect is proven. Prove it wrong, don't try to prove me wrong. Go to the source of my confidence. Bring a whole text with facts, numbers and conclusions.

I could do so. But I am reasonable and willing to discuss. Up to now you want me to find something on a website with a wall of text. I am sure you could do better.

Originally posted by artistpoet

Harris L. Coulter is a fraud, I have to say - which is not a nice thing about a dead man, sorry for that.
While many of the points in this picture are true and not under discussion for their truth, the sum of it is another picture. You have to bring the vaccine into the body and this should happen with the least intrusive method and materials. If there are some traces (and no, its not a lot of letssay glutamate) they are necessary for the vaccine to reach the target in the human body.

reply to post by ManFromEurope


I am a Doctor and I do not vaccinate my children. I read the reports that come across my desk, and when the CDC say that the flu vaccines that they injected for years ( in their own admition) did not work. Now you need to inject this "new flu" vaccine, I question the effectiveness of said vaccines. I tell my patients not to try a new med until it has been out for 5 yrs, then we will try it if needed.
What I see is people wanting the lives of the people in the commercials. They see a drug commercial and see how happy the actors are and they want that drug. They come in and say I need lipitor and I say for what your blood work is okay, you exercise, your only 29 yr old.....why do you think you need lipitor?
So I don't give lipitor then the patient comes in several months down the road hurting so bad he can't hardly stand. I ask what's up? He say I dunno doc I hurt all over and real weak. I ask what have you done differently ?
Well doc, to be honest, I went to DR -------- cause you would not give me lipitor so I got some. I ask him if he read the side effects? he said no! One of the major side effects of lipitor is muscle wasting. He said ohhhh.
The point is Big pharma back in the 90's wanted to see what doctors were looking at to screen for Heart attacks.
They found out it was cholesterol levels. So they came up with drugs to lower it, they did not care what the side effects were . So lets look at lipitor Major side effect is muscle wasting ...What is your heart?
From this example you see what I am saying it is all about money and not health.
2nd example ...Why is there a charge for treating cancer?
We give billions to charities, government grants, college and university's labs and research personnel, people leave their estates to fund the research. So why is a shot $120,000? The big pharma says it is because the cost of research, but isn't that already paid for?
The other thing is year after year billions of dollars are spent ....why are we still doing the same treatments we were doing in the 1970's? All research on natural remedies is squashed, the reason : you cannot patent a plant....So big pharma says plants don't work. But were do the synthetic drugs come from? PLANTS......you see the conumdrum?

reply to post by hanyak69


I would humbly suggest that Man from Europe, either works for a large pharmaceutical company or in health care in some way or form. I think it's great when a doctor comes out and says he wont vaccinate wily-nily. I think you've also hit the nail on the head billions a year donated to 'cancer charities' etc and how many years and the default option is still chemo and radio therapy, lets kill all cells and hope the bad ones are all gone before all the good ones.

i lost my father to cancer and it annoyed the crap out of me that he wouldn't try alternative therapies, putting all his trust into Dr's, they managed to finish him off in less than 6 months. I'm having a similar issue with my step father, was on statins for months and felt crap, i told him to come off of them. If it aint helping it aint working, less than 3 weeks after coming off them, he was almost back to himself. 6 months down the line he goes for a check up, Doc goes ballistic because he stopped medication, put him back on them. 2 weeks later my step father has gone back to where he was 6 months previous. I put it down to an age thing, he never questions the Doc, saying they must know as that is what they do, i have explained that its 'practising medicine'

Liked the comment regarding plants

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Why should i find it for you, i pointed you to 1 website after a 10 second search from a search engine. As you were too lazy just click this link, it will take you to a page of graphs that illustrate how they cut off dates to suit www.whale.to... Now come back and tell me that the reduction in cases is because of vaccines and not better sanitation and healthier eating, you cant.

Originally posted by FFS4000
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

Why should i find it for you, i pointed you to 1 website after a 10 second search from a search engine. As you were too lazy just click this link, it will take you to a page of graphs that illustrate how they cut off dates to suit www.whale.to... Now come back and tell me that the reduction in cases is because of vaccines and not better sanitation and healthier eating, you cant.

edit on 15/09/2011 by FFS4000 because: (no reason given)

You still only point to whale.to, without realizing that that site (which I criticised itself for being a creepy playground for fans of textwalls..) did only take out samples from other websites completely out of context. Could you give another site?
Could you please state said experts, whom I asked you about?

Originally posted by FFS4000
reply to post by hanyak69

 

I would humbly suggest that Man from Europe, either works for a large pharmaceutical company or in health care in some way or form.

Sorry, but this is stupid. You are doing that "ad hominem"-thing with me but the only effect you achieve is showing your prejudices - everyone not on your side has to be on the contrary side. I am not. I do my own thinking, BUT depend that on the findings of scientists who ACHIEVED science, not only criticized the work of others.

I think it's great when a doctor comes out and says he wont vaccinate wily-nily. I think you've also hit the nail on the head billions a year donated to 'cancer charities' etc and how many years and the default option is still chemo and radio therapy, lets kill all cells and hope the bad ones are all gone before all the good ones.

i lost my father to cancer and it annoyed the crap out of me that he wouldn't try alternative therapies, putting all his trust into Dr's, they managed to finish him off in less than 6 months. I'm having a similar issue with my step father, was on statins for months and felt crap, i told him to come off of them. If it aint helping it aint working, less than 3 weeks after coming off them, he was almost back to himself. 6 months down the line he goes for a check up, Doc goes ballistic because he stopped medication, put him back on them. 2 weeks later my step father has gone back to where he was 6 months previous. I put it down to an age thing, he never questions the Doc, saying they must know as that is what they do, i have explained that its 'practising medicine'

Liked the comment regarding plants

No doc is impeccable, so is the therapy against cancer. Every cancer is a case for itself, you can only try the meds which worked good for the majority of affected persons. IF there were a perfect cure (like the alternative medicines claim), every single doctor would use it.
There is none.
If a med isn't working with the patient, the doc has the possibility to choose between several others, mostly "blind", as in "try to find the best fitting" med.
Sometimes things like with your stepdad happen, the doc could have done something with that information - he choose not to.

Are you sure (beside the users word for it) that the poster is a real doctor?

Originally posted by Super Katsurio
Luckily I was able to obtain verification from my School district that I did indeed receive my MMR Vaccine. 2 different times in fact; once in 86' and once in 97'!!! So, there is no way in hell that I will be getting a 3rd dose of these Thimerosal laced vaccines. Luckily I will able to produce proof, but I'll see if tomorrow whether or not my proof is sufficient or not... I thought these bloody vaccines were supposed to last a lifetime, guess not...

Thanks for the input ya'll. Although this thread has sort of descended into a conversation I wasn't intending, lol! You silly ATSers and your conspiracy theories, pfthahah! [*End Sarcasm]

edit on 20-8-2012 by Super Katsurio because: Poor grammar/ anal retentiveness at poor grammar!!!

Most vaccines won't provide lifetime immunity - regardless of what propaganda you have been told. Most of those vaccines with all the interesting chemicals haven't even been around long enough to test for "life-time' effect; either positive or negative. Actually catching the disease and having your body deal with it will provide life-time immunity.

Originally posted by hanyak69
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

I am a Doctor and I do not vaccinate my children. I read the reports that come across my desk, and when the CDC say that the flu vaccines that they injected for years ( in their own admition) did not work. Now you need to inject this "new flu" vaccine, I question the effectiveness of said vaccines. I tell my patients not to try a new med until it has been out for 5 yrs, then we will try it if needed.
What I see is people wanting the lives of the people in the commercials. They see a drug commercial and see how happy the actors are and they want that drug. They come in and say I need lipitor and I say for what your blood work is okay, you exercise, your only 29 yr old.....why do you think you need lipitor?
So I don't give lipitor then the patient comes in several months down the road hurting so bad he can't hardly stand. I ask what's up? He say I dunno doc I hurt all over and real weak. I ask what have you done differently ?
Well doc, to be honest, I went to DR -------- cause you would not give me lipitor so I got some. I ask him if he read the side effects? he said no! One of the major side effects of lipitor is muscle wasting. He said ohhhh.
The point is Big pharma back in the 90's wanted to see what doctors were looking at to screen for Heart attacks.
They found out it was cholesterol levels. So they came up with drugs to lower it, they did not care what the side effects were . So lets look at lipitor Major side effect is muscle wasting ...What is your heart?
From this example you see what I am saying it is all about money and not health.
2nd example ...Why is there a charge for treating cancer?
We give billions to charities, government grants, college and university's labs and research personnel, people leave their estates to fund the research. So why is a shot $120,000? The big pharma says it is because the cost of research, but isn't that already paid for?
The other thing is year after year billions of dollars are spent ....why are we still doing the same treatments we were doing in the 1970's? All research on natural remedies is squashed, the reason : you cannot patent a plant....So big pharma says plants don't work. But were do the synthetic drugs come from? PLANTS......you see the conumdrum?

Thank you!

reply to post by ManFromEurope



ManFromEyrope wrote:-


Harris L. Coulter is a fraud, I have to say - which is not a nice thing about a dead man, sorry for that.
While many of the points in this picture are true and not under discussion for their truth, the sum of it is another picture. You have to bring the vaccine into the body and this should happen with the least intrusive method and materials. If there are some traces (and no, its not a lot of letssay glutamate) they are necessary for the vaccine to reach the target in the human body

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In response artistpoet writes:-

Just because you say L Coulter is a fraud does not make it so

You admit many of the points are correct and then go on to speak of glutamate as a red herring

MMR Can cause brain damage and does
Big Pharma is linked to Eugenics

Your post is mute

He is a shill for big pharma under the guise of asking about innoculations. How much are they paying you?
How do you know if I am a real DOC? You don't I would post my license but the security risks involved. You my friend are definately more CEPHALORECTOTIC than I !!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by hanyak69
He is a shill for big pharma under the guise of asking about innoculations. How much are they paying you?
How do you know if I am a real DOC? You don't I would post my license but the security risks involved. You my friend are definately more CEPHALORECTOTIC than I !!!!!!!!!!!

Yay, you found a word which is unknown to the internet! Nearly full points for you! Sorry, my keyboard would punish me if I used so many exclamation marks, so I am limited to one per sentence.


No, serious: I like that "ad hominem" thing you are doing here - me being a shill for some big corp would def. pump up my salary. Can I use your recommendation in my CV for a job in BIG PHARMA?

Must be pretty convincing, if even a doc thinks so, right? Man, I don't care if you are a doc or a crack dealer, whatever! Your professional analysis of the vaccine-"problem" is in such a way that no one would dare to assume you being a real doc, like from a university or something.

Vaccine is bad? Fine, don't take it. Let your children have all the fun of measles and such, with MUCH HIGHER RISKS than being vaccinated. You know as a doctor that kids can die from MMR. With a lot higher lethality than from the vaccines. I am sure you and every other cowardish and opportunistic member of the anti-vaccine-church does know that, but you know: kids are just kids, they have fun being ill in bed oder getting this polio..

Oh dear, how about some risk analysis?

See ya, as you will surely answer to this and lengthen this thread to limits no one has seen before, right?

Run along like a good little shill, you keep repeating what they tell you and not doing your own checking on things. Funny isn't it that i never had all the jabs they try and insist on and i never got any of those things, btw when i was growing up Rubella was only for girls