British Ministry of Defense will no longer investigate UFO reports.

reply to post by karl 12
I take it to mean they're ending investigation of civilian UFO reports.

Any reports involving radar returns at locations of national security will have to be responded to in the traditional way of scrambled jets or confirmation from other radars and operators. It can't be any other way can it? I mean they need to know if the technology is reliable or glitchy and that would require investigation and a case-file/report going somewhere. Lets say the tech is hunky-dory? Well that leaves the UFO as something worth identifying and, again, demands a report that has to get filed somewhere.

Historically, we've got reports where air-force pilots have been scrambled after radar or ground observers have seen something. Then the pilots have got a visual too. If these kind of incidents still occur, witness reports would *probably* be required by someone and, once more, filed away somewhere.

It seems sensible and reasonable to suspect that somewhere or other is a pile of pretty good reports.

The Air Force in the United States did this same thing, but it was used as a ploy to get congress and media off their backs.. They still continued to investigate sightings on their own, even though they said the exact same thing as this MOD statement..

Bluebook was their first step, and then using the false conclusions that bluebook was made to produce, they finally shut it down using the condon report which ironically was fully funded by the air force.

The entire thing was done just to get rid of constant congressional and public inquiry

Here is a link to a BBC story from 2010 which reveals Winston Churchills take on UFO's.
There is also a link there for the National Archives which give a database of what allegedly remains available to view.

www.bbc.co.uk...

If the MoD has stopped, then the task must have been taken over by MI5.
We have seen CIA reports declassified decades later of incidents that occurred after the closure of Blue Book.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Is the source (The Telegraph) a legimate source? I know Karl you are super good at posting good quality stuff....but this sounds ridiculous to me....as if its a hoax?!

(I know its not...but but....)

Just a quick post (haven't had much time recently to join in discussions...) to say that the basic story about the MOD stating that it shut down its UFO desk is true.

This story was first reported in about December 2009:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

The MoD department, which has dealt with more than 12,000 reports – including 135 last year - was used to assess threats posed by any Unidentified Flying Objects sightings throughout Britain.
Any reports made would now not be investigated or followed up as the hotline had been closed, a spokesman said.
UFO experts expressed anger at the decision.
MoD chiefs made the decision to close the £50,000 a year department, established in 1950, after deciding there was no benefit investigating sightings which were “an inappropriate use of defence resources”.

www.guardian.co.uk...

For more half a century paranoid fantasies about flying saucers, little green men and alien invasions were officially indulged by the existence of a department within the Ministry of Defence that investigated UFO sightings.

But after more than 11,000 sightings spawning countless conspiracy theories, the department has been scrapped. The UFO hotline is no more.

In these tough economic times the MoD concluded that investigating UFO sightings can no longer be justified. It was diverting resources an MoD statement said.

Are we alone in the universe? The MoD doesn't care any more. When you ring the old hotline number, you get a terse recorded message,

drdavidclarke.blogspot.co.uk...

MoD closes UFO desk
After 50 years of collecting reports of sightings the Ministry of Defence has quietly closed its “UFO desk”. With the MoD under huge pressure to cut costs, the small amount of money saved can be diverted to higher priorities such as the front line in Afghanistan.

The announcement was quietly added to an existing FOI document on the MoD website entitled “How to report a UFO sighting” on 1 December. This simply noted, almost in passing, that its UFO hotline answer-phone service and e-mail address were being withdrawn. Until now the service has allowed the public to report sightings directly to the ministry. But as none of the thousands of reports received have proved to have any defence interest, the decision to close the UFO desk was sadly inevitable. The statement said:


“The MoD has no opinion on the existence or otherwise of extra-terrestrial life. However, in over fifty years, no UFO report has revealed any evidence of a potential threat to the United Kingdom. The MoD has no specific capability for identifying the nature of such sightings. There is no Defence benefit in such investigation and it would be an inappropriate use of defence resources. Furthermore, responding to reported UFO sightings diverts MoD resources from tasks that are relevant to defence.”

This is old news, I tried to report my sighting in oct 2010 see thread here UFO thread see image links for what I believe are the second suns people have started reporting

When I tried reporting my sighting I was told then that the ministry is no longer interested in this information and has know one to investigate, I suppose Nick Pope was the last in place and they shut down the office publicly but I bet there is a hidden investigation for military personel reports.

UFO's pose no danger so they shut down the office, what a joke, we had only last friday the head of UK air traffic control on live radio stating they are having a least 1 incident per month of UFO's in UK air space, listen to interview here radio show link

I've got to be honest, ever since the early eighties the idea of aliens and ufo's really influenced my life. I loved science fiction movies, and anything on discovery or whatever I watched it, but I think the idea of alien ufo's from another planet coming to earth is a bit silly now.

Nothing in over 50 years has really been convincing, and it never will be unless it is used in some sort of way to influence human activity on earth.

We had hitler, then communism, terrorists and we slowly building up to the financial terrorrism, and then after that Im guessing its either going to be all out religious war across the globe or an alien invasion, but none of it is by chance, and its all building up to be used to create a one world agenda.

If a very advanced alien race decided to come to our world to observe us, why are the hiding away from us and not showing themselves without fear, what could we do against a race of beings possibly thousands of years in advance.

When I go to the zoo yes there are fences but you dont see everyone hiding behind bushes trying ot get a glimpse of the monkeys, they just literally stand there and look at these monkeys eating, climbing, and up to all sorts, we got no fear, and no reason to hide.

Originally posted by FireMoon

In effect what the MOD is really saying is this. "We have no interest in investigating reports that don't come from "in house" and from now on, you can forget about ever hearing about it if we do choose to investigate anything."

Firemoon, good point mate and I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one.

Originally posted by Kandinsky

Historically, we've got reports where air-force pilots have been scrambled after radar or ground observers have seen something. Then the pilots have got a visual too. If these kind of incidents still occur, witness reports would *probably* be required by someone and, once more, filed away somewhere.

It seems sensible and reasonable to suspect that somewhere or other is a pile of pretty good reports.

Hola K and it certainly does - suppose the question is where are reports being sent and filed - something tells me it's not the National Archives Office in Kew.

I remember retired Bluebook Chief Colonel Robert Friend once said that during his tenure there were 'classified intelligence channels for reporting UFO's that completely bypassed Bluebook' and government docs also exist which state that 'UFO reports that were a threat to national security weren't even part of the Bluebook system' (link) so maybe there's a parallel British equivalent that's been operating somewhere for quite some time (speculative opinion of course).

In the article below it mentions the Operation Mainbrace UFO incidents that were said to cause the RAF to 'officially recognize' the UFO subject and other UFO cases which forced the MOD to 'rethink and then reverse its policy' - it also states that two Air Ministry Divisions were actively involved in investigating UFO sightings (S6 and DDI) - don't know what the findings of their investigations were but if the British MOD were taking specific UFO incidents that seriously back then I can't see them just abandoning their investigations nowadays.

Commentary on DSI/JTIC Report No 7:

In chapter 17 Ruppelt reveals that even after he had left Project Blue Book and the USAF, friends in RAF intelligence kept him informed about latest developments, on a private basis.

Another indication of the strong US influence on the Flying Saucer Working Party is the fact that their June 1951 final report was entitled Unidentified Flying Objects. This term had been devised by Ruppelt himself, early in 1951, but was not at the time in use outside US Government circles.

..The Flying Saucer Working Party had been dissolved in 1951 amidst a frenzy of scepticism that had clearly been fuelled by the Americans. The response that Churchill received to his 1952 enquiry showed that the sceptics still had the upper hand within the MOD. But this was soon to change.During the period 1952 to 1957 there were a series of UFO sightings involving the military, which forced the MOD to rethink and then reverse its policy. These included sightings during Operation Mainbrace in September 1952 (including those at RAF Topcliffe), the West Malling incident on 3 November 1953, Flight Lieutenant Salandin’s near-collision with a UFO on 14 October 1954, the Lakenheath/Bentwaters radar/visual sightings on 13 and 14 August 1956 and the RAF West Freugh incident on 4 April 1957.

High-profile sightings such as these, together with the increasing number of reports from the general public, pushed the sceptics within MOD onto the defensive. The Flying Saucer Working Party’s recommendation that UFO sightings should not be investigated was overturned and by the mid-Fifties two Air Ministry Divisions were actively involved in investigating UFO sightings. The divisions concerned were S6, a civilian secretariat division on the air staff, and DDI(Tech), a technical intelligence division. Their brief was to research and investigate the UFO phenomenon looking for evidence of any threat to the UK.

Full Article

Cheers.

The cost of staffing, documenting reports, maintaining and issuing them via FOI is simply an unnecessary expense to our government. There are thousands of documents now in the public domain and most of them are dull mundane reports of lights in the sky. Conspiracy theorists will see differently but I really think this is simply an exercise in economics.

As others have said, suspicious radar returns and issues of real defence significance will continue to be investigated by the UK MoD and military but kept in house and out of the public domain as much as possible.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

I read about this quite a while ago.

Arbitrageur, I know there were articles in the press about the closure of the 'UFO desk' some time back but it's the first time I've heard an actual announcement in the mainstream corporate media that the British MOD has elected to cease all investigations into unidentified flying objects - would appreciate a link to an earlier report if you have one.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

When did the USA stop official investigations? Official US investigations ended with the end of project bluebook in 1969...

Yes, according to the USAF factsheet ''No government agency has ever taken an interest in UFOs since the closure of Project Bluebook' although there seem to be plenty of authenticated U.S. Government documents which suggest otherwise.

This document from 1976 even describes a UFO incident as a 'classic case which meets all the criteria necessary for a valid study of the UFO phenomenon' and recipients of the report included the Chief of Staff of the Air Force, the Chief of Staff of the Army, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, the Secretary of State, the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense, the White House and the Chief of Naval Operations.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

, and a lot of people criticized the official reports as a whitewashing anyway.

Yes, a lot of people do - especially if they look at the 'explanations and evaluations' of some truly perplexing UFO incidents or examine the methodology of their supposedly impartial investigations - even their own scientific expert thought it was a joke (link).

Here's what Yale University Scientific Magazine had to say about Bluebook's abuse of statistics although I also think serious questions should be raised about group's agenda and objectivity (likewise with the Robertson panel and the Condon committee)

"Based upon unreliable and unscientific surmises as data, the Air Force develops elaborate statistical findings which seem impressive to the uninitiated public unschooled in the fallacies of the statistical method. One must conclude that the highly publicized Air Force pronouncements based upon unsound statistics serve merely to misrepresent the true character of the UFO phenomena."

Yale Scientific Magazine (Yale University) Volume XXXVII, Number 7, April 1963

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

I'm sure the USA continued to perform "unofficial" investigations which I suspect the MOD will also do. If there are no official investigations, it makes it easier for them to ignore a bunch of nosy inquiries, by pretending they don't have any records of investigations when people ask for them. So I don't know how much of a cost savings it will really be, but it could be a move toward more secrecy.

Can't disagree with anything you've said there.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Regarding the threat to security, the number of cases over the last 65 years where the UFOs have attacked is pretty small, right? (Unless you count the farmers who think UFOs are attacking their livestock).

There were UFO incidents even in Ruppelt's era over military and atomic sites that could be construed as 'a threat to national security' (and more in highly sensitive military/nuclear air space since then) but I suppose if you just write off UFO incidents like Edwards and Minot as 'stars and planets' like Project Bluebook did (irrespective of any evidence to the contrary) then there is no threat to national security - quite a simple strategy really.

Originally posted by The GUT

I read a pretty convincing account somewhere (I'll try and find it) that the U.S. especially the Air Force just didn't want the responsibility and the cost associated with something that outsmarted them every-time.

Hey Gutster, I remember Captain Ruppelt once saying that he wished UFOs swam so he could hand the whole problem over to the U.S. Navy but I'd certainly be interested to read the account you mention.

(who knows, maybe UFOs do swim and the Navy is the main investigative body of the US Government)

Originally posted by The GUT

I truly don't think any of the governments have any more of a clue than we do. Maybe that's it.

Maybe you're right mate and they don't unequivocally know about UFO origin but I'd speculate certain governments take the subject extremely seriously (even whilst pretending not to) and are 'soberly concerned' about the problem - especially in light of all the unexplained UFO incidents over highly sensitive nuclear/atomic installations or restricted military airspace.

As for the MOD, it may have nothing to do with them closing down UFO investigations but I was reminded of this episode back in 1978 where the U.K. delegation was instructed to oppose 'international investigations' into the subject via the United Nations - Jacques Vallee who was also present at the U.N. Hearings also had this to say about how governments 'encouraged secret briefings' and 'funded classified research' whilst all the time pretending to the public the subject was nonsense.

"Governments took notice, organizing task forces, encouraging secret briefings and study groups, funding classified research and all the time denying before the public that any of the phenomena might be real. The major revelation of these Diaries may be the demonstration of how the scientific community was misled by the government, how the best data were kept hidden, and how the public record was shamelessly manipulated."

Dr. Jacques Vallee, astrophysicist, computer scientist 1992

link

Cheers.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

From Nick Pope...

Nick Pope, who ran the MoD’s UFO desk from 1991 to 1994 and now researches UFO sightings privately, said: “One of the problems was that an increasing number of the reports the MoD was getting were low quality..

Ah yes Nick Pope - he also pops up on this video news clip discussing the closing down of the 'UFO desk' - he says that no money is going to be saved and the MOD were quite 'devious' in the way they went about it:





He also asks quite a pertinent question below about the official government line about 'UFOs being no threat to national security':

"The official line from the Ministry of Defense is, 'Yes, this happened. No, we don't know what it is, but we say that it is of no defense significance.' How can it possibly be of no defense significance when your best jet is left for standing by a UFO? And, again, how can it be of no defense significance when your air defense region is routinely penetrated by structured craft?"

Nick Pope
Head of the "UFO desk" at Air Secretariat 2-A, British Ministry of Defence from 1991-1994

the keys are in the words 'they pose no threat'

now how exactly was that determined? the govt is conceding to the fact of unidentified aircraft over their airspace during times of terrorist attacks(which, i might add, the uk is certainly up there in possibilities for target practice)and yet no further investigation(official) will be done..

that makes no logical sense..and to the poster who mentioned the cost, i thought of that too, but, it is about what ?100,000 grand or so american...total drop in the economic bucket here, and for security, we spend every last penny right, even if those kids don't have free lunches..::rolleyes::

so...why would they do this? this is going to sound far out, but i believe they were instructed to...'they pose no threat'...what lovely disinfo and indoctrination to slowly spread, so, that in the event of some sort of catastrophe, and our interlopers from afar suddenly appear to save the day, this can be pointed to as 'evidence'; see even the MOD says they are no threat..

i mean, i do not know how many thousands of animals you guys have lost to these things, but i tell you, not only is your government totally fos but they are sounding as dark as the united states right now...

No, they key word is:

'Crisis'

As part of the economy crisis which we heard around the Olympics and the lesser audience than planned... it did affect the UK well, so it's now their turn to tighten up the belts, Therefore, where would they start from? The useless UFO stuff, where money is completely wasted.

Sometimes you people shouldn't dig into some conspiracy and say 'Hmm something is definitely up! Disclosure! They work with Them!' - No just no, sometimes the explanations are that simple as in the above paragraph.

I kind of giggled to see Nick Pope's disappointment, it looked like his belief in aliens was just broken for him, and Pope is showing a lof of belief, lacking the objectivity that I am talking about and I personally strive to have. He looked like slapped in the face LOL

Belief won't bring you anywhere, don't deny the possibilities but do not believe desperately, that's my say. Follow my lead, and you will be on the right way.

Originally posted by julia53

the keys are in the words 'they pose no threat'

Thanks for the reply Julia and I don't know how the MOD's claim that 'unidentified' objects cause no threat if they can't even identify them but I suppose they're just banking on people unquestioningly accepting it.

There's also some relevant reading at the link below concerning the work of British researcher Julian J.A. Hennessey and he does a good job of pointing out some of the 'inherent shortcomings' of MOD UFO policy including claims of 'force fit' debunking and massaging the statistics of actual unknown reports.

Firstly, the Ministry does not appear to operate on an immediate capability basis. Often, witnesses in major cases were not interviewed until weeks after making their report. The value and validity of doing so is certainly in question. The Ministry has stated in the House (of Commons) that it is often difficult to assess what a witness observed several days later, let alone several weeks.


Secondly, judging from my correspondence with the Ministry, it appears unable to positively identify an extremely high number of the reports made. Yet the annual statistics never support this fact. UFOs listed as "probable balloons" suddenly become definite balloons statistically. Cases have even occurred where the Ministry was even unable to identify jet interceptors involved.


Thirdly, explanations given witnesses are often more puzzling to them than the nature of the UFO reported. In many cases, the witnesses, often trained competent observers, have regarded these Ministry explanations as an insult to their intelligence and certainly would never again report any other such observation to the Ministry. My discussions with airline pilots revealed that a majority of them would never make a report to the Ministry for fear of ridicule. A highly unsatisfactory situation caused by the present policy.


Fourthly, once an explanation has been given, the Ministry will not, even when the evidence has been presented to the contrary, review its findings if the evidence presented does not fit in with theirs. It has a strong tendency to ignore valid points in the statements of witnesses simply because it does not support what they think is the probable cause of the sighting.


Lastly, the Ministry only investigates the air defence implications of reports and admits that it has never carried out a study into their scientific implications. Scientists or serious UFO researchers have no access to these unclassified reports on file. Indeed, it is only over the recent years that such reports are permanently retained. Previously they were destroyed after a 5-year period.

From the above, it is clear that, in the first instance, a major public relations problem exists. My opinion is certainly not an isolated one, a prominent scientist, who visited the then Air Ministry for a discussion of UFOs, stated to me in a tape-recorded conversation, "I am probably speaking treason here, but there seems no point to follow things up and no basic rapport between the British Air Ministry and the public...they say the public be damned!" The same attitude has not changed six years later! If one accepts the above as the only "true" picture, which is how the public now sees it, then the Ministry's investigation is one of gross incompetence that endangers National security. However, my observations lead me to believe that it is not the only investigation."

link

Cheers.