Liberals Believe That Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist:

If there weren't an inherent fear of cheating, then there'd be no need for monitors, auditors at voting areas.

The fact is, it's not just an election to many but a chance to secure a future, a chance to gain from having someone in power, a chance to gain favour in the decision-making process in DC.

Given the oppourtunity, people would cheat. It's a sad reflection on our society, but it's true.

So any attempt made at disuading cheating will be met with scorn and derision.

I think that if people were honest with themselves then they would applaud ANY and EVERY attempt to inhibit cheating and to make the proess as honest as possible.

That's my 2 cents.

In my lifetime, the only cases of voter fraud I remember on the news were people using mail in ballots or officials losing ballot boxes in their car trunks or closets. All the dead people voting were using mail in ballots.

I suppose the dead people can continue to vote using mail in ballots even with the voter ID laws.

reply to post by nixie_nox


And the opposition to voter ID from the Democrats is as suspect as the support by Republicans. And the fraud includes more than those that show up and vote as someone else - it also includes those that register that are not qualified to vote (felons, immigrants). With millions of immigrants (illegal - not undocumented - they entered the country ILLEGALLY) being granted rights to secure ID and licenses, it is a BIG concern that our elections are being subverted by those not a citizen of this country. Now...since Obama just bought their allegiance, who do you think THEY are going to vote for?

The arguments against voter ID are more 'divide and conquer' than the arguments for it. But its not rich vs. poor, or black vs. white....it is the lawful against the lawless. The honest against the liars. Inflammatory...but true.

I believe voter fraud is being perpetrated. And I am confident there are some on both sides of the aisle that are guilty.

I think voter i.d. is a good idea...I would like to see it used for early voting and absentee voting as well.

We have i.d.'s for most everything...driving, going to school, opening a checking account, applying for welfare, requesting government permits for most everything, and many other areas of our public lives.

States offer free state issued i.d.'s. So, what is the problem for poor people? For those who choose not to renew their driver's license, they can still get a state issued i.d. card.

Sounds to me that those who don't get some form of photo i.d. are disenfranchising themselves. I personally do not want illegals voting, or felons voting or dead people voting.

As for "only 5-10 voter fraud cases found....who is it that looks into this? Probably the same people who are in charge of counting the votes. Talk about foxes counting chickens in the hen house....

These are my personal opinions. Flame me if you want...it won't change my opinions.

The only pending cases of voter fraud are against 4 Republicans in MI indicted for falsifying petition signatures. I've voted R for president most of my adult life, but I will not check the R box for ANY race anymore as long as I live until:

1. The Republicans purge themselves of the Christian crazies that dominate the party now.
2. They prove themselves honorable by stopping their full court press to deny people who oppose them of their ability to exercise their vote.

In my opinion, ALL current Republicans are traitors to the Constitution. To them I will add any and all politicians whose support the Patriot Act and voted for the NDAA. Dem or Rep, every last person who voted for the NDAA needs one day to be brought up on charges, have their citizenship revoked, finantial accounts seized and deported. Sponsors of the bills should be convicted for life imprisonment due to their frontal assault on the Constitution.

Reply to post by jjf3rd77

Keep telling yourself it exists.

Keep telling yourself these laws were put in place to protect votings integrity.

These laws urinate all over the Constitution and the only reason you support them is because you know damn well what their true intention is.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Conservatives are all fat and want to make babies with Rush Limbaugh! Liberals are all vegans and take it up the butt! Independents all carry guns and eat deer meat! Socialists all love Hitler! HITLER! Can you believe that?! Communists only eat gruel and think all colors should be banned except red!

See? I can do it too...

Regarding voter fraud, who cares? Vote for the green pile of crap or the dark brown pile. In the end, you still have a pile of crap even if your vote for the green pile gets changed to the dark brown pile.

Plenty of flashy studies and statistics that all focus on "IN Person" Voter Fraud when most voter fraud actually occurs via the absentee process.

Case in Point. MIami-Dade

What is known is that since Carrillo informed Miami-Dade Police in mid-July about the actions of a Hialeah woman he was hired to follow, the county’s mayor and state attorney have been fending off questions about improper absentee-ballot collections, political operatives have been fired, and a 56-year-old woman known as a boletera has been charged with ballot fraud.

Carrillo said he was contacted in mid-July by a man who handed him Deisy Cabrera’s business card and hired him to follow her. The red-white-and-blue card had Cabrera’s name on the front and a hand-written note on the back that read in Spanish: “When your ballot gets to you, call me, I work all elections.”

Carrillo contacted Miami-Dade police. On July 24, Carrillo and police, acting separately, followed Cabrera first into the building housing Gimenez’s Hialeah campaign office, then into some residential apartments, eventually to Miami-Dade elections headquarters, and finally to a post office, where she is believed to have mailed 19 absentee ballots. Carrillo and police video-recorded and photographed some of Cabrera’s travels.

Police took Cabrera’s lead seriously because some tips of his have panned out in the past, said one law-enforcement officer. Cabrera was arrested nine days later. (Late Friday, another Hialeah man, Sergio “Tio” Robaina, was charged with two counts of absentee-ballot fraud, though authorities don’t think the two cases are related.)

Read more here: www.miamiherald.com...=cpy

Absentee voting has come under increased scrutiny in recent weeks, as police and prosecutors pursue a vote-fraud probe that has led to the arrest of two Hialeah boleteros, or ballot-brokers, accused of collecting absentee ballots from voters and in some cases fraudulently manipulating the votes.

On Tuesday, Miami-Dade’s election canvassing board reviewed 195 absentee ballots collected by suspected boleteros to ensure that the ballots included valid signatures of voters; all but four of the ballots were accepted as valid.

But those ballots were just a sliver of the absentee vote in Miami-Dade. More than 92,000 absentee votes were cast in Tuesday’s primary, accounting for 37 percent of the total ballots cast, according to the county’s elections department. In comparison, about 55,000 absentee ballots were cast in the August 2008 primary, making up 29 percent of the votes in that election.

Read more here: www.miamiherald.com...=cpy

Election Fraud can happen at various levels in the process.

Yes, Republicans do it too.

The district attorney in Hampden County is investigating whether a ­Republican candidate for state representative orchestrated an illegal scheme to cast absentee ballots on behalf of hundreds of voters in hope of winning a primary election.

State election officials were tipped off to the potential voter fraud when a suspiciously large number of residents of the Springfield suburb of East Longmeadow suddenly changed party registration from Democrat to independent, making them eligible to vote in the upcoming Republican primary.

When contacted, several of the voters said they had not changed party affiliations, raising concern that someone had switched their party in an attempt to cast fraudulent absentee ballots on their behalf.

articles.boston.com...

I think we should all be able to agree that they system has been over tweaked and manipulated to the point where our election process is almost uncontrollable nowadays. Everyone wants an edge.

Its a slippery slope

There is more fraud in absentee ballots and voter registration than any other categories. The analysis shows 491 cases of absentee ballot fraud and 400 cases of registration fraud. A required photo ID at the polls would not have prevented these cases.

“The one issue I think is potentially important, though more or less ignored, is the overuse of absentee balloting, which provides far more opportunity for fraud and intimidation than on-site voter fraud,” said Daniel Lowenstein, a UCLA School of Law professor.

Of reported election-fraud allegations in which a resolution could be determined, 46 percent resulted in acquittals, dropped charges or decisions not to bring charges.

Minnite says prosecutions are rare. “You have to be able to show that people knew what they were doing and they knew it was wrong and they did it anyway,” she said. “It may be in the end they [prosecutors] can't really show that the people who have cast technically illegal ballots did it on purpose.”

www.minnpost.com...

First thing every kid with a
fake ID does, is vote .

Oh and the disenfranchisement numbers are
astronomically higher than the single digit voter fraud numbers.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


1. I do think that voter fraud is very real. See: Florida 2000, Ohio 2004, etc.

2. Don't group people like that.

Would you like it if someone grouped all Romney supporters as sycophants and then started a thread so they could write even more drivel?

Originally posted by lakesidepark
I ask, how many people do not have ID? And cannot get one?

We have to have an ID for everything these days, to drive or any kind of public travel, to write checks or use credit cards, to obtain any kind of federal or state benefits, and so on. Why not to vote?

In fact no you don't. It is very easy to assume that you need a photo ID for everything when in fact you don't. There is really only one thing you have to have a photo ID for, driving. Store policy is what decides whether or not you need one before they accept a check. It is against the credit card companies agreement with the merchants for them to ask you for an ID when you use a credit card. You do not need one to get benefits because there are a number of other documents that can be used to confirm your identity.

I also ask, how anyone can determine a conclusive number of fradulent votes without any identification of voters? Any number presented by the left to justify their argument of 'no voter fraud' is suspect, simply because they cannot substantially prove it.

Most research indicates that voter fraud is a bigger problem on the Administrative side as opposed to the Public side. This means there are far more documented cases on the counting end than on the voting end. Then you have campaign workers that fill out fraudulent registrations, and many make the argument that bad registrations=ineligible voters voting and that is not true.

And...I think the OP meant to represent all liberals that are trying to retain office....as I know several hard-core liberals that have no problem with voter ID. However most of the public discussion from elected liberals are in opposition to it.

Please the OP is a big boy and can speak for himself, he does not need your help. Most people do not have an issue with an ID requirement. The problem comes in with how restrictive that requirement is. Many of the issues
with voter ID laws passed this year has been because of a shift from lenient to more restrictive laws. Texas is an example of this where once you could use your student ID, that is no longer acceptable but you can use your carry permit.

Now those that oppose it and make accusations that it is 'disenfranchising' voters - if a citizen cannot make the effort to secure an ID to vote, they are too lazy. It's not that hard to get an ID. Note the person that recently travelled to DC to testify about the difficulty of her being able to travel across her own city to get an ID??? What a crock. Why should we make it easy for lazy and uninformed citizens, that do not particip[ate in our society, to vote on the direction of our society? No WONDER our government is so screwed up.

Really you went there. Did it occur to you that someone else paid for her trip to DC? The other thign that seems to escape you is that not everyone born in this country actually has a birth certificate.

If it was me, I would REQUIRE more than voter ID, I would DEMAND proof that the citizen is informed and casting a vote based on issues and concerns....not celebrity status and popularity. Of course, that will never happen since it could be abused to shut out citizens. Voter ID is the best we can do.

Good thing it isn't up to you. The last thing we need are more hypocritical self-righteous people telling people what they can and cannot do.

How many countries allow voting without ID? Certainly few of the developed countries, and even some of the third-world countries prevent it.

Don't know, don't really care. If we are supposed to be the model of freedom and personal liberty why would be looking to anyone else cues on how to do something as basic as voting? Shouldn't they be looking at us?

And finally, who will be disenfranchised by this? The poor? If they get any kind of gov't. benefits they have ID. The elderly? Yes, some, this may be the most affected group...., and a lot of those are Republican.

A great many people that do not need to drive and therefore have no need to acquire a photo ID.

Finally, anyone that cannot get motivated enough to get an ID is not participating in our society, probably not working, and not receiving benefits, probably not keeping up with the issues, and therefore are simply too ignorant to be allowed to participate in the direction of our country.

Broadly generalize much? did it every occur to you that maybe they are more concerned about things like staying warm and keeping a roof over their head that they don't have the time to deal with the bureaucracy
involved in getting an ID

I'm an outsider so forgive me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there claims of election fraud when Bush won the election against Kerry in 2004?

Reply to post by woodwardjnr

There were claims of election fraud in 04 which were proven to be true. But Al Gore had already given Bush the election, he chose not to fight the results, so it did not matter. There were votes by people proven to have been long deceased when the election took place as well as miscounting votes intentionally.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

The OP cites this story...

The "Al Franken" *victory* was obvious.

In the eyes of the Obama administration, most Democratic lawmakers, and left-leaning editorial pages across the country, voter fraud is a problem that doesn't exist. Allegations of fraud, they say, are little more than pretexts conjured up by Republicans to justify voter ID laws designed to suppress Democratic turnout.

That argument becomes much harder to make after reading a discussion of the 2008 Minnesota Senate race in "Who's Counting?", a new book by conservative journalist John Fund and former Bush Justice Department official Hans von Spakovsky. Although the authors cover the whole range of voter fraud issues, their chapter on Minnesota is enough to convince any skeptic that there are times when voter fraud not only exists but can be critical to the outcome of a critical race.

In the '08 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was impossibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes............


Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted -- not just accused, but convicted -- of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. "The numbers aren't greater," the authors say, "because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and 'knowingly' voted unlawfully." The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong.

Still, that's a total of 243 people either convicted of voter fraud or awaiting trial in an election that was decided by 312 votes. With 1,099 examples identified by Minnesota Majority, and with evidence suggesting that felons, when they do vote, strongly favor Democrats, it doesn't require a leap to suggest there might one day be proof that Al Franken was elected on the strength of voter fraud.
York: When 1,099 felons vote in race won by 312 ballots

The "In Person" deflection codeword doesn't cut the mustard.

It's a classic Alinsky BeeEss tactic to hoodwink you.


The 2000 Florida fiasco was a screw up by idiot Democrats who failed to get the fraud right

The Left got caught off guard that time !


If "voting" is a right or a privilege, it's up to "legal" voters to maintain that right or privilege.

Why should legal voters have to bow down to illegal corruption and suffer for it ?

Don't get bullied by these amateur BeeEss'ers !!!!

You want to vote ? ....

Then Prove you have the right.

Simple as that...

Show your friggin I.D. !!

I would like to take a moment to point something out to the uninformed that keep saying felons are ineligible to vote. This is patently false, please stop spreading disinformation. In only 12 States out of 50 are they ineligible to vote, and in most of those States there is a process by which they may get their right to vote restored. The twelve States are Alabama, Arizona, Delaware, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wyoming.

In the remaining states Some combination of serving the time of your incarceration plus or minus parole/probation is the only requirement, you are then automatically eligible to vote. Maine and Vermont allow inmates to vote absentee in prison.

The real fraud is a Republican Party gone wild that can't win on policy and won State Legislatures in 2010 on the public's desperation for any solution. Here we have some more proof of some busy legislatures doing everything they can to ensure that those likely to vote Democrat do not show up.

Florida - On Mar. 9, 2011 the Florida rules of Executive Clemency were toughened. Automatic restoration of civil rights and the ability to vote will no longer be granted for any offenses. All individuals convicted of any felony will now have to apply for executive clemency after a five year waiting period. Individuals who are convicted, or who have previously been convicted, of certain felonies such as murder, assault, child abuse, drug trafficking, arson, etc. are subject to a seven year waiting period and a clemency board hearing to determine whether or not the ability to vote will be restored.

Prior to the Mar. 9, 2011 rule change some individuals convicted of non-violent felonies were re-enfranchised automatically by the Clemency Board upon completion of their full sentence, including payment of fines and fees.

Iowa - On Jan. 14, 2011, the Republican Governor of Iowa, Terry Branstad, issued executive order 70, rescinding a law allowing people convicted of a felony to automatically have their ability to vote restored after completing their sentences. The automatic voting restoration law had been instituted by former Democratic Governor Tom Vilsack's signing of executive order 42 in 2005. Felons in Iowa must now pay all outstanding monetary obligations to the court in addition to completing their sentence and period of parole or probation. People convicted of a felony may then apply for restoration of the ability to vote.

South Dakota - On Mar. 19, 2012, HB 1274 was enacted. The bill took the ability to vote away from convicted felons serving terms of probation. Previously, only persons on parole or incarcerated were ineligible to register to vote. Now convicted felons must serve their full term of incarceration, parole, and probation before they may register to vote.

felonvoting.procon.org...

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Liberals Believe That Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist

It's a double edge sword.

1. "Misguided" amateur Liberals Believe That Voter Fraud Doesn't Exist.

2. "Experienced" Liberals know it does exist, but they want You to believe it doesn't !!

Voter fraud doesn't exist eh?

Then tell me in my home state of Indiana that the current potus was not even put on the ballot legally?


Voter fraud has existed probably since the creation of this country and the left is so against voter id laws because asking for something the liberal base uses to get all the government benefits is somehow "oppression".

www.foxnews.com...

It's so funny that FOX News, a legitimate news organization??, preaches the problems of voter fraud now, but...... I don't recall that being a problem when a republican president was appointed by the Supreme Court due to a lot of voter..... confusion? Should we just call what happened in Nov 2000, a lot of voter confusion? It's just silly.

Next Republicans will be saying Democrats preach hate. Haha. I think Republicans at this point are such twisted forms of hypocritical speech and spin (lies) and bull feces that they really don't know what is truth anymore. Truth is just... whatever. It makes sense that they also have the religious base. It's all a big mental disorder for sure.

Georgia had a similar hoolabaloo about voter I.D. and yes old folks were trotted out and so forth in an attempt at sympathy, the issue of course made national news for awhile and was fought in the courts - guess what? several election cycles into it I don't hear voter fraud being bandied about anymore as it was in the past. Have you? proofs in the pudding dears - it works and gives some small confidence that 1 ballot one vote is happening at the polls. Seeing how well it works here I scratch my head in wonder at those whom have issue with I.D. at the polls.

Of course many here have also demonstrated a total ignorance of the U.S. Constitution where it states the rules and method of voting is indeed up to each states legislature. I always posit the idea that is where your vote actually counts - you know that old axiom "all politics are local" IMHO we have various states legislatures cleaning up loose ends with voter I.D.laws and an honest expungement of the dead and other ineligible voters from the rolls and all I hear is whine, whine, whine.

Personally I think and agree with others posting here that absentee and mail-in ballots are much bigger problem to be dealt with in the main, like to see them done away with completely - either show up and vote or not, I could really give a rip why you cannot, elections are known date far in advance of your vacation, work schedule, kids varsity game or most other reasons other than a medical emergency. Maybe a hospital stay, overseas military duty or legitimate overseas business trip should be the ONLY qual for an absentee or mail in ballot.

People make choices in their lives, one of those is exercising your right to vote. No where does it say it will be convenient, timely or work around your schedule nor your lack of I.D.