Why can't the "elite" ever understand?

I would guess that it would be the same reason that the people can never understand? We can look at the elite in the Roman Empire, the English Empire, the French Revolution and even modern day America. The elite and the people with them never seem to understand how this works.

King Louis the 16th. Now instead of talking with his people and solving the issues that they faced, he chose to ignore the issue until it literally broke down his door. He then chose (this time literally) to flee from the issue yet again until his people eventually cut his damn head off. Why? Are these issues really too hard to figure out? Or is it just a sense of entitlement that these people honestly believe that they are gods among men? I don't get it.

Look at modern day America. You have a country that is 16 trillion dollars in debt, people are being kicked out of their homes and could probably be best described as the modern day Roman Empire ...and what is the first lady doing? Getting her Marie Antoinette on taking vacation after vacation while this President refuses to even host a Q and A session.

I think the even more surprising question would be that why is it always a surprise? This is the norm for our species going by history, yet every time something like this happens it's always a surprise to the people of the country. I just want to know how many times we have to repeat history before it finally sinks in to both the ruling class and the people. At some point "let them eat cake" doesn't work anymore and the people get pissed off.

Can we not learn this one historical fact and stop repeating it?!

I think most people understand and agree with you, I know I do.

Personally, I think those at the top know that this kind of BS cannot go on forever. They know that eventually they will either have to fix it, or it will all come crashing down around them. BUT, in the meantime, all those greedy bastiges want to milk the country for all it's worth, and hope they can get out before their time comes.

You can't piss on people and tell them it's raining forever. Eventually they'll get tired of it. But it takes awhile, and the elites are just playing Russian Roulette, hoping that they won't be around when the gun goes off.

These nonstop WARS are hurting America TREMENDOUSLY. We are going to find ourselves in very bad shape for generations to come if it doesnt end very soon.

America goes on fighting these wars in other countries yet it is us Americans here at home who are losing the battle from it.

WE are losing the battle everyday that it continues...

reply to post by Lannister

The elite and the people with them never seem to understand how this works.

They do understand how it works.

But it is another fact that lets them ignore the truth.

It is greed.

Look at modern day America. You have a country that is 16 trillion dollars in debt,

There it is. They take beneficiaries of war and colonialism , then you are getting the debt.

That is why they even ignore you. Their greed has made them blind.

Originally posted by mideast
reply to post by Lannister

 

The elite and the people with them never seem to understand how this works.

They do understand how it works.

But it is another fact that lets them ignore the truth.

It is greed.

Look at modern day America. You have a country that is 16 trillion dollars in debt,

There it is. They take beneficiaries of war and colonialism , then you are getting the debt.

That is why they even ignore you. Their greed has made them blind.

edit on 14-8-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)

Then it seems that it is greed that needs to be stopped. How so? I don't know. Maybe everything is returned to society on death so that it is impossible to breed these out of touch people that never had to work a day in their life. It seems that if this is the issue then it needs to be cut out of human society the same as you would cut out cancer.

reply to post by Lannister


My personal POV on this issue evolved when I read the Rockefeller biography many years ago. That tome was full of quotes made by various Rockefeller eleite that paint a pretty disturbing picture of their collective opinion on how society is structured. For example, one of the Rockefeller elders is quoted as saying that only the wealthy should have money. They are the only ones who know how to use it, he says, so it would do the poor no good. It becomes unquestionably evident when reading their words that they absolutely believe that they (the wealthy) are different than the rest of us. They see themselves as superior and almost an entirely different species. Based on what they say and some of things they have done, it is clear that they place very little value on the rest of us. I can only expect that this libe of thinking is not limited to just the Rockefellers.

Speaking as a historian (affiliated with a UK university at PhD level) I'll just say on the matter of history repeating - that is what history does. It's the nature of humanity to be wise as individuals and less so as a collective.

As for the elite never understanding, well they've got all the power, all the money, all the influence and control the military, the media, the resources and means to exploit and utilise all of those things. A popular revolution in the western world has never been less likely than it is now.

All things considered, it looks like they understand pretty well.

They've been learning their lessons well and all the while doping the masses with shiny consumerism, the culture of aspiration and the illusion of freedom. Dreams are powerful things, and revolutions only happen when people wake up. 21st century culture would rather be asleep.

Originally posted by Deadletters
Speaking as a historian (affiliated with a UK university at PhD level) I'll just say on the matter of history repeating - that is what history does. It's the nature of humanity to be wise as individuals and less so as a collective.

As for the elite never understanding, well they've got all the power, all the money, all the influence and control the military, the media, the resources and means to exploit and utilise all of those things. A popular revolution in the western world has never been less likely than it is now.

All things considered, it looks like they understand pretty well.

They've been learning their lessons well and all the while doping the masses with shiny consumerism, the culture of aspiration and the illusion of freedom. Dreams are powerful things, and revolutions only happen when people wake up. 21st century culture would rather be asleep.

The thing I've noticed during these revolutions is that people tend to wake up when things become extreme. The French revolution because there was no food. The American revolution was because of the constant abuse. I don't think the people have been pushed far enough to revolt in the traditional sense... and that might be where the elite has learned it's lesson. Push the people to the brink but don't cross that line that you know exists. How long they can play limbo with that line is questionable, but at the very least I agree with your interpretation.

For example, one of the Rockefeller elders is quoted as saying that only the wealthy should have money. They are the only ones who know how to use it, he says, so it would do the poor no good. It becomes unquestionably evident when reading their words that they absolutely believe that they (the wealthy) are different than the rest of us. They see themselves as superior and almost an entirely different species.

reply to post by jtma508


Creepy. Maybe to them the word 'wealthy' has an entirely different meaning (or alterior meaning) than it does for us 'poor' folk.

Not trying to end this thread too soon, but I have your answer in two words.

EGO and POWER !!

If you take these two factors out, greed just falls to the old "love of money" premise which is behind a lot of "more regular" people's problems.

Simple greed would not often bring about the wars and suffering which much of the world is forced to endure because of the egos of those in the wrong positions and their driving desire to maintain the power over others which they crave.

The problem is human nature. Its easy to say you would run the world in a fair and equal way when you are on the lower end of the scale. But chances are if any of us were in the same position os the 'elite' as you like to call them we would act just the same.

Oh they understand perfectly well how it all works, they know the inevitable outcome as well. They work on the collective level, they work on humanity as a group. The individual cannot be really controlled, the human psyche is to powerful and to radical to control. They rely on who people are together.

They understand well the motivations oh the human species, the vast majority of people, just wish to be left in peace, earn enough to get by, to be able to look after their kids. They syphon all the wealth out of society, funnel it upwards, as soon as people start realise this they throw in the division, lay the foundations of blame elsewhere, The Muslims did it, the Jews did it, gays did it, blacks did it, welfare claimants did it. Those terrorist are trying to destroy your life, they hate your freedom, those gays are trying to corrupt your kids, its the liberals fault, its the conservatives fault. Each and every group or demographic is to blame, except of course the top elite who are the pillars of society working tirelessly to improve our individual nations, yeah right.

And it works, just look at these boards as total proof of that, here is a discussion forum based on conspiracy theories, that delves into the hidden world and look how divisive these boards are... You have people arguing over whether Romney of Obama will be the best president, I mean come on guys, both are going to screw you over and here you are applauding them and cheering them on to do it.

People need to get back to the basics of common law, is what that person doing hurting me or others? If no leave them the hell alone. Stop hating people who are different to yourself, they are not the issue, they don't make laws or impose financial penalties on you. But it wont happen, as a collective people are to influenced by others, by what the TV tells them is real, or listen to some idiot sprouting scripture written by some mud hut dwelling uneducated oaf wrote thousands of years ago to try and explain a world he did not understand.

Until we stop hating each other, they will always win, and they know it...

reply to post by Lannister


Quite a good post.

.....the English Empire,....

But for fear of appearing somewhat pedantic to many non-Brits I really have to point out that neither now nor ever has there been such a thing as The English Empire - it was very much a British Empire.


The elites 'can't' understand simply because they don't want to understand.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Lannister

 

Quite a good post.

.....the English Empire,....

But for fear of appearing somewhat pedantic to many non-Brits I really have to point out that neither now nor ever has there been such a thing as The English Empire - it was very much a British Empire.


The elites 'can't' understand simply because they don't want to understand.

British Empire it is then. I really have no desire to argue history with you.

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer
Oh they understand perfectly well how it all works, they know the inevitable outcome as well. They work on the collective level, they work on humanity as a group. The individual cannot be really controlled, the human psyche is to powerful and to radical to control. They rely on who people are together.

They understand well the motivations oh the human species, the vast majority of people, just wish to be left in peace, earn enough to get by, to be able to look after their kids. They syphon all the wealth out of society, funnel it upwards, as soon as people start realise this they throw in the division, lay the foundations of blame elsewhere, The Muslims did it, the Jews did it, gays did it, blacks did it, welfare claimants did it. Those terrorist are trying to destroy your life, they hate your freedom, those gays are trying to corrupt your kids, its the liberals fault, its the conservatives fault. Each and every group or demographic is to blame, except of course the top elite who are the pillars of society working tirelessly to improve our individual nations, yeah right.

And it works, just look at these boards as total proof of that, here is a discussion forum based on conspiracy theories, that delves into the hidden world and look how divisive these boards are... You have people arguing over whether Romney of Obama will be the best president, I mean come on guys, both are going to screw you over and here you are applauding them and cheering them on to do it.

People need to get back to the basics of common law, is what that person doing hurting me or others? If no leave them the hell alone. Stop hating people who are different to yourself, they are not the issue, they don't make laws or impose financial penalties on you. But it wont happen, as a collective people are to influenced by others, by what the TV tells them is real, or listen to some idiot sprouting scripture written by some mud hut dwelling uneducated oaf wrote thousands of years ago to try and explain a world he did not understand.

Until we stop hating each other, they will always win, and they know it...

I honestly think that this is how we evolve... not in the traditional sense of course, but mentally. We have to prey on each other to better ourselves. Meaing that we need to find a way to stop the disease that we inflict on ourselves as to prevent it from happening again... kinda like the chickenpocks. Technology can be made in a hundred years... but the human mind evolves very slowly. We no longer have Kings and Queen, emperrors and human gods. We move on from that thinking only to find a new problem. We bug test ourselves to find these loop holes and stop them... as long as we don't destroy ourselves in the process. I think we are witnessing human evolution in real time right now... or maybe I've just had too many tonight

Originally posted by Deadletters
Speaking as a historian (affiliated with a UK university at PhD level) I'll just say on the matter of history repeating - that is what history does. It's the nature of humanity to be wise as individuals and less so as a collective.

As for the elite never understanding, well they've got all the power, all the money, all the influence and control the military, the media, the resources and means to exploit and utilise all of those things. A popular revolution in the western world has never been less likely than it is now.

All things considered, it looks like they understand pretty well.

They've been learning their lessons well and all the while doping the masses with shiny consumerism, the culture of aspiration and the illusion of freedom. Dreams are powerful things, and revolutions only happen when people wake up. 21st century culture would rather be asleep.

you paraphrase the public as "being asleep"...it's not asleep, the people are simply not desperate enough to risk their lives to change the system. i would say that people are able to evaluate whether their lives would be better with a massive tear-down of the present system. alot more people today, because of education, realize that the people at the bottom are the first ones to suffer and for a greater period of time. those at the top, are the ones that suffer the least. in this day and age, the wealthy that have the control, simply get on their jets and fly away, physically, as well of monetarily.
if the tzar of russia (back when they had tzars), had a jet on the tarmac during his reign, he could have easily taken himself and his family to a safe haven country, along with his most precious jewels, gold, etc. and not end up being killed by a lower class uprising.
the wealthy really do not have anything to fear...there are plenty of countries that would welcome them and their assets.
actions have consequences, and there are no fairy-tale endings in real life....i don't have any viable solutions, other than to try and work within the system. but i do know, since i am not part of the wealthy elite, my family and i would be alot worse off, than we are now. some people here make grandiose statements about bringing change through revolution, however, they fail to provide any type of blueprint on how our society will function afterward. these details are important to the majority of people, because it will affect the rest of their lives. so, this is why i (along with others) call people that advocate revolution, ignorant and naive. they constantly use the terms "asleep" and "sheeple" and tell us to "wake up" to somehow make themselves feel more intelligent, or more "in the know", than the rest of the people, when they themselves seem NOT to understand the massive amount of chaos that would take place, and the historically-proven disparate way of living. people need to do more in-depth research on what life was like for the masses after these great (so-called) "peoples revolution"

Revolution is hardly what I'm after myself. I'm merely musing on why we won't see one anytime soon.

Originally posted by Lannister
I would guess that it would be the same reason that the people can never understand? We can look at the elite in the Roman Empire, the English Empire, the French Revolution and even modern day America. The elite and the people with them never seem to understand how this works.

King Louis the 16th. Now instead of talking with his people and solving the issues that they faced, he chose to ignore the issue until it literally broke down his door. He then chose (this time literally) to flee from the issue yet again until his people eventually cut his damn head off. Why? Are these issues really too hard to figure out? Or is it just a sense of entitlement that these people honestly believe that they are gods among men? I don't get it.

Look at modern day America. You have a country that is 16 trillion dollars in debt, people are being kicked out of their homes and could probably be best described as the modern day Roman Empire ...and what is the first lady doing? Getting her Marie Antoinette on taking vacation after vacation while this President refuses to even host a Q and A session.

Yea and while all this is going on the first lady is on TV leaning on kid about eating fast food? Meanwhile the Goth make their way through the mountain passes.

Why wasnt this athletes coach on the program with her anyway? From gold proformance to being used as a poster child against fast food.

reply to post by Lannister


When you get people in power with money (a neverending supply of it!) you get people who could care less about the rest of the population.

If the people running the country were living paycheck to paycheck like most of the population, then you would get actual results!!

Think about it this way, if someone came up to you and said I will give you 100 billion dollars to do with it what you will, what would you really do to help? Yeah you might donate some money to charity or set your mind at ease with other things to help you sleep better at night, but what would you really care about with the rest of the people?

You would continue to live out your life in luxury and be worry free about what is happening around you. People get caught up in the money and could care less about the people working 120 hours a week just to feed their family!!

It sucks I know, but unfortunately when there are large sums of money involved, the reasoning and logic get thrown out the window!!

they don't have to understand. all the commoners have to talk about is nonsensical.

the only reality is that the elite will always exist in one form or another and that all that everyone else thinks they are will die and never be heard from again.

the french chopped off a head, turned their world into hell and didn't even survive their own 'revolution'.

made prostitution legal after allowing all their men to be killed in a few years of conquest.

and then pledged to never do it again.

after 150 years...the commoner is at it again. threatening to commit mass suicide and expecting someone who they thought they killed to care about their point of view.

all their is to understand is that the common man is attempting to operate way above his pay grade.