Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation: ‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

reply to post by thepresident

First.... You're calling people liars while offering a few lines of your own thoughts and a couple lines quoted from an OP you misrepresent to begin with.

Now, the OP is referencing a PART of the topic as the 2004-09 operations,, and so are the legal documents the Beck story is based on. The op story itself, if you read all of it, also refers VERY clearly to operations AFTER the mutt in the story got nailed. ...and so do the legal documents the Beck story was based on.

I read the legal paper too..and they CLEARLY reference the Issa Committee as part of what they expect to get in discovery, and more than once. ALSO papers relating to operations during the Bush-Era gun running efforts are asked for separately from the Obama stuff. In fact, the discovery items are even numbered differently.

The Phoenix ATF office Chief was in the middle of Bush's efforts AND Obama's efforts. Different Presidents....different orders....yet similar or same mindset and middle management plods along. Read them yourself... Maybe you can quote something that shows I'm wrong or I missed? I see him asking for everything before AND after his client got busted. Been fishing? lol....

Motion for Discovery

Mr. Zambada-Niebla in requests #48-51, seeks to obtain information regarding
Operation “Fast & Furious” and the findings regarding that operation in the Joint Staff
Report prepared for Darrell R. Issa, Chairman of the United States House of
Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and Senator Charles
E. Grassley, the ranking member of the United States Committee on the Judiciary,
because the materials requested are relevant to his defense of public authority and are
exculpatory.

(Source Above)

Reference for that quote is Page 11, Paragraph 1. The link below is an ATF Report from Grassley's office, BTW.

You'll find pages 11-13 pf the above to be especially interesting. Specific requests for Bush Era stuff seems to start with #42 for discovery items. If someone has a copy of the specific discovery request items...it'd answer more.

The thing is..The OP was not 100% based and scope locked on what ended on one day in March of 2009....He even said so in the op..and repeatedly in this thread since. In fact, his quotes chosen for the OP piece raise SERIOUS questions about whether the meeting in March that busted the Informant making these claims weren't already very much controlled by Holder and Obama. The Fast and Furious operation that started months later seems very much in Administration control.

I have one final piece of evidence...since the OP is talking about the broad issues....and *NOT* just what this one informant stopped knowing anything about in March of 09.

Internal Memo - ATF Phoenix Field Office - RE Fast and Furious

Hopefully, to help shed a bit more...ahem...logic.....on the topic, this lays out very clearly when and how Fast and Furious came into existence. It also details how the weapon that shot and killed Agent Brian Terry was a part of the Fast and Furious operation.....and was sold in Jan of 2010.

I shouldn't have just wasted another 30 minutes replying to someone making points that reading the material would have answered...but integrity means a great deal to some people. Having it challenged..just once in awhile..really gets old when thin air is on offer for support.

Anyways, above all.
I am more incline to believe a drug cartel member rather than current potus, (D), (R) or MSM.
And no, i'm not being sarcastic :\

Originally posted by eagleeye2
Anyways, above all.
I am more incline to believe a drug cartel member rather than current potus, (D), (R) or MSM.
And no, i'm not being sarcastic :\

If you want to believe the blood son of the Head of the Sinaloa Drug Cartel, that's your choice. Personally.... I'm sorry he isn't good for a Capital Crime. He and Daddy both earned a needle...a few times over.

Zambada-Niebla claims that under a “divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 as long as the intel kept coming.

Wwwwhy are we blaming Obama again?

Interesting theory.

A criminal in custody would never lie. He would have no reason to say anything that would make the arresting party look like a criminal. Unless.......

Really you're going to believe one lying cheating murdering bastard over the other?

I'm not saying he is completely wrong but why listen to what he says? The man had the chance a long time ago to do the right thing but decided he would do whatever was in his best interest. Do you think that has changed?

It's too late.

reply to post by cetaphobic


Oh, just that little matter of the fact he was arrested 5 hours after meeting with United States Government Officials....and his attorney claims he'd been working with several agencies right up ti that point...in March of 2009.

That means those U.S. Government Officials, meeting with the kid of the head one of the largest Drug cartels on Earth were Obama's Government agents. So...If he didn't know..then say so, and hand over who was meeting with him.

Lets also recall, IF we are believing this guy, then we believe him. THAT means the people inside our government, in several agencies outside of ATF, are STILL IN the Government and it's Obama's Government. He's not cleaning house and tearing the place up looking for these people. He's dropping Executive Priv. orders. Doom on him.....He brought this on himself if he's actually got nothing to do with what happened on his shift.

All I had to see was where the drugs were coming in to where exactly?:

- CHICAGO!

There is a huge latino population in Chicago, something on the order of a million have settled in Chicago since the year 2000.
Sanctuary cities hide much more than just illegal aliens.

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by something wicked

 

Obviously more so than you did.

Fast and furious 2009-2011.

But I know you just want to blame someone else for his failures.

If you read, the guys statement refers to 2004 - 2009 I believe. I don't need to blame anyone, he isn't president of the country I live in.

Same old those who allign are permitted to break the law for a profit.

reply to post by something wicked


It helps if you read the entire article. =)

I can care less what country you are from when you spout non-sense.

The joke here is associating Obama with it... We know the gov made crack what it is today.. We know the gov been in the drug game since before nicaraguan contra.. Thats before Bush, Reagan etc...

*sighs* i swear this place has turned so politically biased and so full of propaganda that it worse then the places everyone here complains about as the corrupt MSN!

I think this is certainly possible, but I also think they saw the added benefit of claiming all the weapons were sold at gun shows, in order to shut them down.

Kind of like taking out some cartels and shutting down gun shows in one operation.

Has Obama released the 'Fast and Furious' documents? If not all orders by him should be voided, since he is not complying with congress. Personally, I think he should be fired for being such a snake, like the rest of our presidents for the past 30 years. Stock up people, they won't stop themselves.

Excuse the irony in my post here..

I find it very bothering that such a thing is taking place each day. And when American citizens get the news and actually KNOW what is happening, which is against the laws of the country anyways, they just make sarcastic posts agree with eachother and turn the cheek like good sheep..

Yep, good ol' American citizens, gotta love 'em. Thats if you are a shady member of the government and its agencies making millions dollar salary Must be fun to pay these people yourself, with the tax they also take from you when you slave for them everyday, year after year.

Oh shhh... Love, just let them turn the cheek

Alright.. my bad, enjoy America while it lasts

Originally posted by Resurected
*sighs* i swear this place has turned so politically biased and so full of propaganda that it worse then the places everyone here complains about as the corrupt MSN!

Agreed

But what can we do, just turn the cheek and keep scouting out interesting headlines in boring forums

(Sarcasm ends)

reply to post by Longshots


I may be the only person here that doesn't know lol. What is it? (U2U please).

reply to post by LoveisanArt


Okay, so we're awake and not out breaking things and shooting people..or whatever we're supposed to do when learning we're being shafted. What is it you'd have us do? Waking up as one among a couple million (maaaaaybe) among 330 million is still a very lonely experience for most. Some more than others, but I still ask what you'd have us do?

I'm also curious...Where is it you live that you find our situation somehow amusing? If you're in Tonga or Fiji...one of those little backwaters in Oceania, I can see your position and point. I'd have the same attitude if I were logging in from a beach side log and a wi-fi. Outside of that though, I'm at a complete loss for a nation where the situation is markedly better? Those which are at the moment...won't be much longer and your name doesn't suggest Chinese so that rules out the one which may find a way though it all.

I mentioned this to my son yesterday. He knows a lot of hispanics who's families live in Mexico. He told me that they had told him that it is common knowledge in Mexico that the US supplies and supports a few of their favorite drug cartels.
This might be news to us, but to the Mexicans, it's old news.

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by something wicked

 

It helps if you read the entire article. =)

I can care less what country you are from when you spout non-sense.

Could you explain what you are talking about? Frankly it sounds like crap here and I think most posters have made that clear. You don't like Obama? That's up to you. You want to manufacture reasons why other people should agree with you? Try a little harder.

I'll let you off the 'can care less' thing because, well it's grammatically wrong but I'm sure you will probably have an opinion on that as well.