A philosophical proof* of the eternity of all things.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

'Things' are not aware, 'things' appear in awareness.
Awareness is like the sky and 'things' are like clouds. The clouds come and go but cannot without the sky being present.

I am aware. I am a thing. I come and go, but cannot without the body being present. The sky is a thing. It is finite.

You 'think' you are a thing. You see a body that changes, you see a mind (thoughts) that changes but the one seeing and knowing the changes does not come or go, it is constantly present - aware presence.

You 'think' I am not a thing. My body sees a body that changes. Without my body, there is no 'one' seeing and knowing the changes.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


It is not your body that sees. Your body is seen.
Can you find the seer of what is seen?
youtu.be...

Again you are right when you say there is 'no one' seeing.
Seeing is all there is. No one is doing seeing.
Awareness is all. Aware presence.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by LesMisanthrope

 

It is not your body that sees. Your body is seen.
Can you find the seer of what is seen?
youtu.be...

Incorrect. It is my body that sees. It has the eyes, it has the touch, the smell, the mind to discern, the nervous system to receive data, the heart, lungs, endocrine and digestive systems to stay living. Without those, where would your awareness be?

No more youtube videos please. I'd like to hear what you think with your own words.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Did you watch any of the videos?
They explain it clearer than i can.
At least watch the first 4 short ones i posted if you are at all serious about finding out what awareness is.

reply to post by Theillixus


To make it possible to construct an exact duplicate of anyone or anything - given the fact (yeah, quantum physics has proven it to be true) that the indivisible unit does exist - you'd have to eliminate the fact of contextual precedent, and by doing so, eliminate the fundamental structure of existential identity. Which - regardless of the lucidity of the argument - is literally impossible, since identity is the physical definition of the concept that is existential survival; which is the primordial imperative that drives all that occurs within the material realm. What exists as established historical fact prevents the duplication of anyone or anything from being possible, and that historical fact - while not being infinite - is definitely eternal, once it has emerged within whichever specific contextual confine we refer to as reality. Information has no half-life rate of physical decay, and that means that once it exists (in default response to whatever it is that it represents as occurring, having occurred, or have been established as being) it will always exist.

Sorry. Reality is a bit more cumbersome than you perceive it to be, and as far as infinity is concerned, that was soundly debunked when the lowly quantum was proven to exist. Infinite delineation fell as a result of the quantum, and when it did, the "other half" of infinity - infinite expansion - fell as well. Not that you'd think so, the way that theoretical "physicists" prattle on about infinite multiverses and other imaginary constructs.

Information is where you might want to start researching, if you actually want to uncover the truth about eternity. Material existence creates information, and as the material realm lurches forward in quantum leaps of "now", what emerges as it does, and persists to create the structure that allows the material realm to continue to exist is the informational realm. It's here where you'll discover eternity.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I have watched them, and remain unconvinced.

reply to post by NorEaster

Originally posted by NorEaster
reply to post by Theillixus

 

Information seems to be where you might want to start researching, if you actually want to uncover the truth about eternity. Material existence creates information, and as the material realm lurches forward in quantum leaps of "now", what persists and creates the structure that allows the material realm to exist is the informational realm. It's here where you'll discover eternity.

edit on 8/10/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

Very interesting. What is information to you? Is it memory?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Awareness is before thought speaks and tells you what to believe.
This moment does not require thought for it to appear. This moment (presence) is prior to thought, prior to the human mind wanting to understand.
Awareness is aware of what is appearing before man labels it this or that (good/bad, right/wrong). The mind works in opposites so splits what is real and true into an assumption, a word, a belief.
Non conceptual awareness is the only truth. As soon as man with his mind labels it, it is a lie. This lie (deception) is what causes suffering in mankind.

Reseach non duality and Advaita Vedanta.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You've explained it better than that Gill fellow did.

I don't, however, think that "aware presence" is eternal. If the earth was destroyed, and all the life in the entire universe was on planet earth, there'd be no more awareness.

ETA: Awareness cannot be aware. You yourself said it is not a thing. Only things can be aware. Specifically, only living things.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You've explained it better than that Gill fellow did.

I don't, however, think that "aware presence" is eternal. If the earth was destroyed, and all the life in the entire universe was on planet earth, there'd be no more awareness.

Presence is eternally now. It is timeless. Everything appears in presence as presence. Presence is present where you are and will not end because it never began.

Awareness is not living. Awareness sees. The act of seeing, knowing is what makes the appearance appear.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You've explained it better than that Gill fellow did.

I don't, however, think that "aware presence" is eternal. If the earth was destroyed, and all the life in the entire universe was on planet earth, there'd be no more awareness.

Presence is eternally now. It is timeless. Everything appears in presence as presence. Presence is present where you are and will not end because it never began.

Presence is not "aware presence"

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You've explained it better than that Gill fellow did.

I don't, however, think that "aware presence" is eternal. If the earth was destroyed, and all the life in the entire universe was on planet earth, there'd be no more awareness.

Presence is eternally now. It is timeless. Everything appears in presence as presence. Presence is present where you are and will not end because it never began.

Presence is not "aware presence"

Awareness is not living. Awareness sees. The act of seeing, knowing is what makes the appearance appear.
All seeing all knowing and ever present.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


This is how Jesus overcame the world - he realized that 'the world' was just an idea. An idea that appeared in awareness. Jesus realized that he was 'presence awareness' - he realized Christ consciousness.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You should read Arthur Schopenhaur's "The World as Idea." Even though it's been refuted by many philosophers, it pretty much parallels what you're saying and might prove to be an interesting read for yourself.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Originally posted by NorEaster
reply to post by Theillixus

 

Information seems to be where you might want to start researching, if you actually want to uncover the truth about eternity. Material existence creates information, and as the material realm lurches forward in quantum leaps of "now", what persists and creates the structure that allows the material realm to exist is the informational realm. It's here where you'll discover eternity.

edit on 8/10/2012 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)

Very interesting. What is information to you? Is it memory?

edit on 10-8-2012 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

Information can be residual (fact clusters that represent event/change that is openly associated with the larger contextual environment) or residual memory-specific (fact clusters that specifically represent the event/change processes of a material brain, and are contextually isolated to the data retrieval processes of that specific brain - a survival development called memory) or dynamic (the active directives that are configured and "launched" by the material brain in direct response to internal and external stimuli in service of the brain's unique role as an epitome survival system) in basic nature.

All residual information ultimately "belongs" to the contextual environment, and literally defines that environment, with "memory" solely accessible to the brain whose activity it specifically represents until that brain no longer continues to materially exist as a functional system. Dynamic information is very different. It is absolutely isolated (contextually, and therefore physically per unit burst) from the contextual environment as a whole, and as a result, masses as an indivisible holon relative to the rest of reality. If it is non-sentient, then it continues to exist beyond the life of the authoring brain as purely reactive to external stimuli. If the mass is sentient (self aware and ruminative) then it actually emerges as the final and permanent expression that we refer to as the human being.

Most people call this being a soul, or a spirit, or even consciousness, and that's okay if those words work best for them. It's the fully sentient dynamic information that was generated by one human corporeal brain, that has massed in default response to its natural contextual isolation - the default ramification of the extreme density of contributing factors - both historical and ongoing - that build as each instant of that brain's material survival continues to play out.

Information is one of only two primordial forms of physical existence. The other is the quantum of action. It's how they respond in default to one another that brings everything into existence. That said, they each also exist in unitary and collective expression as well. The intricacies that emerge, as a result of this completely natural reaction partnership is absolutely staggering.

reply to post by NorEaster


Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. I'm going to have to look into it some more.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. I'm going to have to look into it some more.

Can I ask a favor? If you do look into this, and discover another researcher who is breaking new ground, can you U2U me with the link(s). I've been searching for others who are on this track for the last 5 years, and have come up empty. I'd really appreciate finding others if they're out there. Hell, just to compare notes with them would be incredible.

Thanks.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Very interesting. Thanks for the explanation. I'm going to have to look into it some more.

Can I ask a favor? If you do look into this, and discover another researcher who is breaking new ground, can you U2U me with the link(s). I've been searching for others who are on this track for the last 5 years, and have come up empty. I'd really appreciate finding others if they're out there. Hell, just to compare notes with them would be incredible.

Thanks.

Absolutely. I have just the appetite and the idle time for this kind of stuff.